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Counterfeit Swiss 1857 2 franc on Ebay?

I thought you folks might find this interesting.

An Ebay dealer is currently offering an AU-BU 1857 Swiss 2 franc. (I am not able to create a link to this item; perhaps someone with the requisite skills could help?) This coin is flat out rare, mintage well under 1000. But his coin is strange: the numeral "2" in the denomination is in the style of the 1850 2 franc, but that style changed in 1857 to a simpler form that is seen on all 2 francs thereafter (I have an e-copy of the Sincona Top of Switzerland catalog, during which a PCGS graded copy of the 1857 2 franc was sold; that copy has the newer version of "2"). There are other differences between this coin and the Sincona copy.

I ran photos by two dealers in Switzerland and both confirmed the coin is a fake.

The dealer set a starting price of $95 (which is itself informative) and there's one bid as of now. It would be fun to own this piece; useful as a reference piece. And, sad to say, it would the closest I'll ever get to owning an 1857 2 franc.

Comments

  • cwtcwt Posts: 291 ✭✭✭
    Is this it?

    link
  • GreigGreig Posts: 89 ✭✭
    That's the one - thanks.
  • YQQYQQ Posts: 3,264 ✭✭✭✭✭
    do you suspect it to be a Chinese fake? OR one back from Lebanon from the 70ties / 80 ties.?
    Today is the first day of the rest of my life
  • GreigGreig Posts: 89 ✭✭
    The listing says the coin was owned by the lister's late father and had been "vacuum packed" (?) 20 years ago. That would seem to suggest the coin was made before the recent influx of Chinese fakes. But, who knows for sure?

    I have advised the lister of the counterfeit nature of the coin; he says he's worried about it, but the coin is still on Ebay...
  • MacCrimmonMacCrimmon Posts: 7,051 ✭✭✭
    Ja, ja! Das ist richtig.

    image



    Das ist "Alibaba".

    For only $2.30 US, you too can own an 1857 2 Fr. copy


    Alibaba is undoubtedly the biggest online portal of fraud and counterfeits to date. They make Milan, Lebanon, etal. look like pikers.

    * edited to add: you can get them for $2.07 if you order 3 or more ....... 980 available !!!!! image
  • GreigGreig Posts: 89 ✭✭
    Well, this counterfeit closed at $860. The lister put nothing in the listing about it being a fake. So much for his being "worried about it."

    The fact that his listing bars returns makes this sale even more troubling.

    For what it is worth, I don't think this is an Alibaba fake, because the numeral "2" in the denomination is wrong for the 1857 issue. Also, this particular copy appears to be silver, while (to my untrained eye) the Alibaba version seems to be copper nickel.
  • GreigGreig Posts: 89 ✭✭
    Oops, my mistake. The Albaba coin also has the wrong numeral "2". I still doubt it's an Alibaba version due to itsappearing to be silver.
  • MacCrimmonMacCrimmon Posts: 7,051 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Oops, my mistake. The Albaba coin also has the wrong numeral "2". I still doubt it's an Alibaba version due to itsappearing to be silver. >>



    I checked both "coins" again more closely and both pieces have the same die markers (tooling marks), namely in the field to the left of the "2", and a circular mark above the "7" of 1857.

    That said, the original dies could have been fabricated in Lebanon, Milan, etc. and "luckily" purchased by an enterprising Chinese merchant and returned with goods in hand to strike off a few thousand as needed......sadly I say.


    The real sad person will be the $860 winning bidder (assuming they weren't a shill).

    If I could contact the winning bidder, I'd offer him 20 1857 2 francs for the same money. I'd even do a little silver electrolysis so they'd be all "shiney"!! image hahahaha, just kidding.
  • CIVITASCIVITAS Posts: 2,256 ✭✭✭
    Every coin sold in his recently completed items is an obvious forgery as well. I'm sure these are modern productions and he knows what he's doing.
    image
    https://www.civitasgalleries.com

    New coins listed monthly!

    Josh Moran

    CIVITAS Galleries, Ltd.
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