Nothing new. Same thing happened with the National Gold Exchange in 2009. This is why you should take always delivery of your PM's and not trust someone else to store your bullion for you.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
<< <i>Nothing new. Same thing happened with the National Gold Exchange in 2009. This is why you should take always delivery of your PM's and not trust someone else to store your bullion for you. >>
Exactly!
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Wow. I used nucleo to unload some gold back in 2012/2013 right before prices dropped. Nucleo is a nice concept. Except I think buyers of physical gold and silver are usually not sophisticated enough to understand how to use it. They'd rather buy from dealers/pawn shops.
References: Too many to list. PM for details. 100% satisfaction both as buyer and seller. As a seller, I ship promptly and keep buyers updated.
<< <i>"are usually not sophisticated enough to understand how to use it"
Or perhaps they aren't gullible enough to use it. >>
or, suspicious of everything. Any company can go bankrupt. Nucleo was an innovative idea and it worked well (at least for me). They paid me promptly, as soon as they received my shipment. I was able to unload 1 oz AGEs for about $25 over spot (net to me).
References: Too many to list. PM for details. 100% satisfaction both as buyer and seller. As a seller, I ship promptly and keep buyers updated.
National Gold Exchange were primarily coin dealers, and importers of US Gold from Europe, less so bullion dealers and did virtually no retail as a percentage of total sales. Frankly, I am amazed that there haven't been more besides Tulving and BD that have folded and remain extremely concerned about the fate of the plethora of bullion companies that essentially came from no where within the business in the past 2 to 5 years. I could rattle off 4 or 5 of these companies that do not have one principal that came from the coin or precious metals business that I've been involved in for 35 years. That lack of depth of knowledge of the industry and having been around to see the best and worst of times and learn how to survive them will cause more to close. Hopefully, that's all it will be... to close up shop vs leaving a trail of damage behind. Sorry to paint a dismal picture, I am much more optimistic longer term and believe weeding out some of these "instant dealers- just add capital, a reusable business model, and a supplier" will be beneficial in the long run.
John Maben
Pegasus Coin and Jewelry (Brick and Mortar)
ANA LM, PNG, APMD, FUN, Etc
800-381-2646
<< <i>Nothing new. Same thing happened with the National Gold Exchange in 2009. This is why you should take always delivery of your PM's and not trust someone else to store your bullion for you. >>
Tulving went a year or two ago. But the NGE bankruptcy had some issues with the company's owner stacking rare collectibles, a massive mansion, and the other fine points of high living. I don't recall it having anything to do with how their bullion business was run. NGE had a lot more to do with rare coin liabilities/generic US gold with dozens or hundreds of leading US rare coin dealers on the hook. I wouldn't think Bullion Direct followed that path.
<< <i>National Gold Exchange were primarily coin dealers, and importers of US Gold from Europe, less so bullion dealers and did virtually no retail as a percentage of total sales. Frankly, I am amazed that there haven't been more besides Tulving and BD that have folded and remain extremely concerned about the fate of the plethora of bullion companies that essentially came from no where within the business in the past 2 to 5 years. I could rattle off 4 or 5 of these companies that do not have one principal that came from the coin or precious metals business that I've been involved in for 35 years. That lack of depth of knowledge of the industry and having been around to see the best and worst of times and learn how to survive them will cause more to close. Hopefully, that's all it will be... to close up shop vs leaving a trail of damage behind. Sorry to paint a dismal picture, I am much more optimistic longer term and believe weeding out some of these "instant dealers- just add capital, a reusable business model, and a supplier" will be beneficial in the long run. >>
Meanwhile, back at the ebay ranch, I see new players in the bullion deals area.
<< <i>Meanwhile, back at the ebay ranch, I see new players in the bullion deals area. >>
We can probably say that about most every area of the collectibles field. Fresh capital, fresh owner.....looking for fresh meat. They come ago and like the tides. One of the biggest rip off coin/bullion dealers in my area apparently closed last year. But from 2009-2014 they were ripping people a new one. Several of the antique and consignment shops in my area have "buying gold and silver" signs posted. I cringe every time I see them. They might as well be posting "buying Federal Reserve Notes....paying 75% of face."
The owner of Bullion Direct is said to be Charles McAllister. Recognized by anyone? The hardest hit are probably those with gold bullion IRAs held by B.D. Their life savings, for retirement, gone. Do we have info on how many IRAs were lost?
<< <i>I hope this doesn't turn into a new episode of American Greed and another black eye for the business. >>
As one in the business can you explain how these bullion dealers get over extended and what may be warning signs when dealing with a bullion dealer? >>
As far as getting over-extended that's built into one's personality make-up. Not to say one can't change but generally think of it like going to Vegas with a group of people. Some will be ultra conservative and know when to bail out or change strategy. Others will just keep going knowing or hoping the tide will turn. My mind has a built in "stop-loss" mechanism.
Warning signs can vary from none at all until it's too late (generally a well thought out preconceived scheme) to repeated offers that are simply too good to be true where it ***should*** be obvious 1+1 does not equal 2. The middle ground is most important because it is where one might be able to avert a loss if they can recognize these warning signs:
1) An illustrious high profile appearance that came from virtually no where. 2) No details of ownership, locations, and key employees disclosed on website (or eBay). 3) A change in business behavior patterns such as very slow shipping or slow payment. One occurrence does not constitute a change in pattern. 4) Outright or subtle bad-mouthing of competition with sole purpose being to elevate themselves above others. IE: False and fake or manipulated surveys, bogus awards, ratings that are not independent. 5) This might be the most important. A person or company that simply doesn't do what they say they will do at least 9 out of 10 times. I'm leaving one out because sh*t does happen.
Don't be fooled by glitz and a fancy website. Several new players have proven to be outstanding at developing websites and maximizing SEO search results. In the end, that should mean nothing to you as a buyer. More important, and again I quote Jerry Seinfeld, is "Who are these people???"
Speculating here... but I think some are essentially puppets for others that prefer to remain anonymous in the background for various reasons. If the relationship between the supplier that is calling the shots and the face of the business (the unknowns) is damaged at some point for any reason or that company can't eventually turn a profit, they will evaporate.
Others are telemarketers that set up bullion businesses as a lead generation mechanism only. We are seeing this now on and off eBay.
John
John
John Maben
Pegasus Coin and Jewelry (Brick and Mortar)
ANA LM, PNG, APMD, FUN, Etc
800-381-2646
<< <i>Nothing new. Same thing happened with the National Gold Exchange in 2009. This is why you should take always delivery of your PM's and not trust someone else to store your bullion for you. >>
<< <i>I hope this doesn't turn into a new episode of American Greed and another black eye for the business. >>
As one in the business can you explain how these bullion dealers get over extended and what may be warning signs when dealing with a bullion dealer? >>
As far as getting over-extended that's built into one's personality make-up. Not to say one can't change but generally think of it like going to Vegas with a group of people. Some will be ultra conservative and know when to bail out or change strategy. Others will just keep going knowing or hoping the tide will turn. My mind has a built in "stop-loss" mechanism.
Warning signs can vary from none at all until it's too late (generally a well thought out preconceived scheme) to repeated offers that are simply too good to be true where it ***should*** be obvious 1+1 does not equal 2. The middle ground is most important because it is where one might be able to avert a loss if they can recognize these warning signs:
1) An illustrious high profile appearance that came from virtually no where. 2) No details of ownership, locations, and key employees disclosed on website (or eBay). 3) A change in business behavior patterns such as very slow shipping or slow payment. One occurrence does not constitute a change in pattern. 4) Outright or subtle bad-mouthing of competition with sole purpose being to elevate themselves above others. IE: False and fake or manipulated surveys, bogus awards, ratings that are not independent. 5) This might be the most important. A person or company that simply doesn't do what they say they will do at least 9 out of 10 times. I'm leaving one out because sh*t does happen.
Don't be fooled by glitz and a fancy website. Several new players have proven to be outstanding at developing websites and maximizing SEO search results. In the end, that should mean nothing to you as a buyer. More important, and again I quote Jerry Seinfeld, is "Who are these people???"
Speculating here... but I think some are essentially puppets for others that prefer to remain anonymous in the background for various reasons. If the relationship between the supplier that is calling the shots and the face of the business (the unknowns) is damaged at some point for any reason or that company can't eventually turn a profit, they will evaporate.
Others are telemarketers that set up bullion businesses as a lead generation mechanism only. We are seeing this now on and off eBay.
John >>
Well said. TD
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
OPA
Posts: 17,104 ✭✭✭✭✭
Comments
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
<< <i>Nothing new. Same thing happened with the National Gold Exchange in 2009. This is why you should take always delivery of your PM's and not trust someone else to store your bullion for you. >>
Exactly!
Or perhaps they aren't gullible enough to use it.
World Collection
British Collection
German States Collection
<< <i>"are usually not sophisticated enough to understand how to use it"
Or perhaps they aren't gullible enough to use it. >>
or, suspicious of everything. Any company can go bankrupt. Nucleo was an innovative idea and it worked well (at least for me). They paid me promptly, as soon as they received my shipment. I was able to unload 1 oz AGEs for about $25 over spot (net to me).
John Maben
Pegasus Coin and Jewelry (Brick and Mortar)
ANA LM, PNG, APMD, FUN, Etc
800-381-2646
<< <i>Nothing new. Same thing happened with the National Gold Exchange in 2009. This is why you should take always delivery of your PM's and not trust someone else to store your bullion for you. >>
Tulving went a year or two ago. But the NGE bankruptcy had some issues with the company's owner stacking rare collectibles, a massive mansion, and the other fine points of high living. I don't recall it having anything to do with how their bullion business was run. NGE had a lot more to do with rare coin liabilities/generic US gold with dozens or hundreds of leading US rare coin dealers on the hook. I wouldn't think Bullion Direct followed that path.
Now on a more serious and more important note, RIP Rowdy Roddy Piper...
<< <i>I've said it before a bunch of these schmucks have to go belly up before the bear is over, just my opinion... So far none have...
Now on a more serious and more important note, RIP Rowdy Roddy Piper... >>
Free podcasts of Piper's pit on iTunes
<< <i>National Gold Exchange were primarily coin dealers, and importers of US Gold from Europe, less so bullion dealers and did virtually no retail as a percentage of total sales. Frankly, I am amazed that there haven't been more besides Tulving and BD that have folded and remain extremely concerned about the fate of the plethora of bullion companies that essentially came from no where within the business in the past 2 to 5 years. I could rattle off 4 or 5 of these companies that do not have one principal that came from the coin or precious metals business that I've been involved in for 35 years. That lack of depth of knowledge of the industry and having been around to see the best and worst of times and learn how to survive them will cause more to close. Hopefully, that's all it will be... to close up shop vs leaving a trail of damage behind. Sorry to paint a dismal picture, I am much more optimistic longer term and believe weeding out some of these "instant dealers- just add capital, a reusable business model, and a supplier" will be beneficial in the long run. >>
Meanwhile, back at the ebay ranch, I see new players in the bullion deals area.
<< <i>Meanwhile, back at the ebay ranch, I see new players in the bullion deals area. >>
We can probably say that about most every area of the collectibles field. Fresh capital, fresh owner.....looking for fresh meat. They come ago and like the tides. One of the biggest rip off coin/bullion dealers in my area apparently closed last year. But from 2009-2014 they were ripping people a new one. Several of the antique and consignment shops in my area have "buying gold and silver" signs posted. I cringe every time I see them. They might as well be posting "buying Federal Reserve Notes....paying 75% of face."
John Maben
Pegasus Coin and Jewelry (Brick and Mortar)
ANA LM, PNG, APMD, FUN, Etc
800-381-2646
<< <i>I hope this doesn't turn into a new episode of American Greed and another black eye for the business. >>
As one in the business can you explain how these bullion dealers get over extended and what may be warning signs when dealing with a bullion dealer?
Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt
<< <i>
<< <i>I hope this doesn't turn into a new episode of American Greed and another black eye for the business. >>
As one in the business can you explain how these bullion dealers get over extended and what may be warning signs when dealing with a bullion dealer? >>
As far as getting over-extended that's built into one's personality make-up. Not to say one can't change but generally think of it like going to Vegas with a group of people. Some will be ultra conservative and know when to bail out or change strategy. Others will just keep going knowing or hoping the tide will turn. My mind has a built in "stop-loss" mechanism.
Warning signs can vary from none at all until it's too late (generally a well thought out preconceived scheme) to repeated offers that are simply too good to be true where it ***should*** be obvious 1+1 does not equal 2. The middle ground is most important because it is where one might be able to avert a loss if they can recognize these warning signs:
1) An illustrious high profile appearance that came from virtually no where.
2) No details of ownership, locations, and key employees disclosed on website (or eBay).
3) A change in business behavior patterns such as very slow shipping or slow payment. One occurrence does not constitute a change in pattern.
4) Outright or subtle bad-mouthing of competition with sole purpose being to elevate themselves above others. IE: False and fake or manipulated surveys, bogus awards, ratings that are not independent.
5) This might be the most important. A person or company that simply doesn't do what they say they will do at least 9 out of 10 times. I'm leaving one out because sh*t does happen.
Don't be fooled by glitz and a fancy website. Several new players have proven to be outstanding at developing websites and maximizing SEO search results. In the end, that should mean nothing to you as a buyer. More important, and again I quote Jerry Seinfeld, is "Who are these people???"
Speculating here... but I think some are essentially puppets for others that prefer to remain anonymous in the background for various reasons. If the relationship between the supplier that is calling the shots and the face of the business (the unknowns) is damaged at some point for any reason or that company can't eventually turn a profit, they will evaporate.
Others are telemarketers that set up bullion businesses as a lead generation mechanism only. We are seeing this now on and off eBay.
John
John
John Maben
Pegasus Coin and Jewelry (Brick and Mortar)
ANA LM, PNG, APMD, FUN, Etc
800-381-2646
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>
<< <i>Nothing new. Same thing happened with the National Gold Exchange in 2009. This is why you should take always delivery of your PM's and not trust someone else to store your bullion for you. >>
Exactly! >>
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
MY COINS FOR SALE AT https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/other/bajjerfans-coins-sale/3876
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I hope this doesn't turn into a new episode of American Greed and another black eye for the business. >>
As one in the business can you explain how these bullion dealers get over extended and what may be warning signs when dealing with a bullion dealer? >>
As far as getting over-extended that's built into one's personality make-up. Not to say one can't change but generally think of it like going to Vegas with a group of people. Some will be ultra conservative and know when to bail out or change strategy. Others will just keep going knowing or hoping the tide will turn. My mind has a built in "stop-loss" mechanism.
Warning signs can vary from none at all until it's too late (generally a well thought out preconceived scheme) to repeated offers that are simply too good to be true where it ***should*** be obvious 1+1 does not equal 2. The middle ground is most important because it is where one might be able to avert a loss if they can recognize these warning signs:
1) An illustrious high profile appearance that came from virtually no where.
2) No details of ownership, locations, and key employees disclosed on website (or eBay).
3) A change in business behavior patterns such as very slow shipping or slow payment. One occurrence does not constitute a change in pattern.
4) Outright or subtle bad-mouthing of competition with sole purpose being to elevate themselves above others. IE: False and fake or manipulated surveys, bogus awards, ratings that are not independent.
5) This might be the most important. A person or company that simply doesn't do what they say they will do at least 9 out of 10 times. I'm leaving one out because sh*t does happen.
Don't be fooled by glitz and a fancy website. Several new players have proven to be outstanding at developing websites and maximizing SEO search results. In the end, that should mean nothing to you as a buyer. More important, and again I quote Jerry Seinfeld, is "Who are these people???"
Speculating here... but I think some are essentially puppets for others that prefer to remain anonymous in the background for various reasons. If the relationship between the supplier that is calling the shots and the face of the business (the unknowns) is damaged at some point for any reason or that company can't eventually turn a profit, they will evaporate.
Others are telemarketers that set up bullion businesses as a lead generation mechanism only. We are seeing this now on and off eBay.
John >>
Well said.
TD