Greece

1970s · June 28, 2015 10:46AM

Will make for an interesting Monday. Gold is up over $10 Sunday night, and futures are way down. Who knows ?

derryb · June 28, 2015 11:00AM

Markets tend to initially over react and then settle back down. I believe Greek Monday was priced into metals a while back. I'm not so sure equities did the same.

tincup · June 28, 2015 12:02PM

Sounds like the banks are going to be closed for 6 days.... and the ATM's are empty.... and people have been waiting in lines.....

Not going to be a very good time in Greece...

joefro · June 28, 2015 12:15PM

"Greek officials said that banks will stay shut until July 6, and that daily withdrawals would be limited to 60 euros, or about $67."

TwoSides2aCoin · June 28, 2015 2:22PM

They're not doing anything our Congress hasn't done for years. Writing bad checks to fund "business as usual" Big write-off, a few policy changes. Tightening the belt on the people , once again. Taking away vast swaths of the people's retirement to stay afloat, just to keep doing what we the people always seem to do: Survive , as a nation, by the skin of our teeth. And Europe will absorb the brunt of it.

VanHalen · June 28, 2015 2:55PM

Greece can make for a slippery slope.

Justacommeman · June 28, 2015 9:02PM

I'm in Athens as I type. Yesterday there were orderly marches and demonstrations at Parliament ( we are staying across the street). Today it is very quiet. A sense of dread.

Mark

s4ny · June 28, 2015 9:54PM

Pre market S&P recovering, gold slipping. I am surprised that
gold didn't get a bigger pop.

PerryHall · June 28, 2015 10:35PM

<< Pre market S&P recovering, gold slipping. I am surprised that
gold didn't get a bigger pop. >>

The Greek situation was expected and the markets already factored this situation in for the most part.

Justacommeman · June 28, 2015 10:54PM

<< Pre market S&P recovering, gold slipping. I am surprised that
gold didn't get a bigger pop. >>

I think the markets are improving as the Fed maybe more likely not to raise rates this year citing Greece

Mark

jmski52 · June 28, 2015 11:28PM

The reporting on Greece is highly skewed, depending on the source and the audience for whom the reporting is intended. Greece isn't the first and won't be the last test of the post-Bretton Woods system (whatever that might be).

Things are in transition, but to what? It appears that just about every Western economy is mired in debt and a renegotiation has to take place between not just East vs. West, but between the debt holders and debtors within each country.

Looks to me as if the West is in an increasingly disadvantageous position, and debtors within the West are also within an increasingly disadvantageous position.

Something's going to give, but there's no way to predict what.

mariner67 · June 29, 2015 12:41AM

And....here comes Puerto Rico!

bluelobster · June 29, 2015 1:30AM

I wonder if the Greek populous, will now understand that they were sold a deceptive bill of goods? Clearly, Tsipras and Syriza, were more interested in furthering their naive and radical ideology, than looking out for the welfare of the Greek citizenry.

How could anyone now believe they have any viable plan, but anarchy.

I don't know how anyone could give Tsipras any credibility for being able to successfully navigate any real recovery for Greece, unless they are incapable of reason.

OPA · June 29, 2015 1:43AM

<< And....here comes Puerto Rico! >>

Not here it comes, but it's been around for a number of years. Nothing but a "welfare state" funded by the US Taxpayers. We should have cut the cord long ago.

derryb · June 29, 2015 1:43AM

Tsipras and Syriza are playing a bluff using coziness with Russia to get EU concessions. This has moved from an economic issue to a highly political issue.

OPA · June 29, 2015 1:47AM

<< Tsipras and Syriza are playing a bluff using coziness with Russia to get EU concessions. This has moved from an economic issue to a highly political issue. >>

No loss, if they become a commie satellite. "Mother Russia" needs more unemployed welfare recipients

derryb · June 29, 2015 1:50AM

<< 

<< Tsipras and Syriza are playing a bluff using coziness with Russia to get EU concessions. This has moved from an economic issue to a highly political issue. >>

No loss, if they become a commie satellite. "Mother Russia" needs more unemployed welfare recipients

>>

Mother Russia needs a foothold to counter NATO. This is why Greece will not be allowed to choose Putin, at all costs. If I were a Greek leader I would be watching my back.

At least (for now) you can still get a free bus ride in Greece. The lesson in all this that will not be learned by Europe is the destiny of embracing socialism.

ricko · June 29, 2015 2:33AM

I agree with derryb... although, I would say the problem has always had political roots....now we will watch an economic chess game for a while... although, not sure how long Russia will play the benevolent godfather.... Cheers, RickO

Kip · June 29, 2015 2:34AM

Question,,,,
What is the Capital of Greece?

The answer....about 10 Drachma.

bronco2078 · June 29, 2015 10:16AM

I just read that there is effectively no deposit insurance in Greece. The EU mandated it but didn't fund it so account holders will get bailed in somewhere around July 20th to cover the various banks losses and after it all winds down the account holders will be lucky to get 3 cents on the dollar or euro actually.

Of course there was ample warning to draw down your account if you were a person but look for businesses to get hit hard.

derryb · June 29, 2015 10:20AM

<< I just read that there is effectively no deposit insurance in Greece. The EU mandated it but didn't fund it so account holders will get bailed in somewhere around July 20th to cover the various banks losses and after it all winds down the account holders will be lucky to get 3 cents on the dollar or euro actually.

Of course there was ample warning to draw down your account if you were a person but look for businesses to get hit hard. >>

There's a precious metal forum in Greece?

MsMorrisine · June 29, 2015 10:38AM

<< 

<< 

<< Tsipras and Syriza are playing a bluff using coziness with Russia to get EU concessions. This has moved from an economic issue to a highly political issue. >>

No loss, if they become a commie satellite. "Mother Russia" needs more unemployed welfare recipients

>>

Mother Russia needs a foothold to counter NATO. This is why Greece will not be allowed to choose Putin, at all costs. If I were a Greek leader I would be watching my back.

At least (for now) you can still get a free bus ride in Greece. The lesson in all this that will not be learned by Europe is the destiny of embracing socialism. >>

Greece is a NATO member

derryb · June 29, 2015 10:55AM

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< Tsipras and Syriza are playing a bluff using coziness with Russia to get EU concessions. This has moved from an economic issue to a highly political issue. >>

No loss, if they become a commie satellite. "Mother Russia" needs more unemployed welfare recipients

>>

Mother Russia needs a foothold to counter NATO. This is why Greece will not be allowed to choose Putin, at all costs. If I were a Greek leader I would be watching my back.

At least (for now) you can still get a free bus ride in Greece. The lesson in all this that will not be learned by Europe is the destiny of embracing socialism. >>

Greece is a NATO member >>

Understood. A relationship with Russia will change that, to Russia's advantage, in a heartbeat. Greece does not need NATO's permission to leave NATO. This is why Russia is courting Greece and why Greece thinks it can have it's way with its western critics. Whatever happens, at all costs, Greece will not be allowed to convert NATO bases to Russian bases. This is why concessions will be eventually agreed upon. Up until now it has been a game of chicken.

Baley · June 29, 2015 11:43AM

Greese is the way we are feeling

cohodk · June 29, 2015 12:49PM

The Greek people want nothing to do with Russia.

derryb · June 29, 2015 1:22PM

<< The Greek people want nothing to do with Russia. >>

Yet they are pretty fed up with the alternative. Boils down to what they perceive to be the worse of two evils.

morgansforever · June 29, 2015 8:07PM

Citizens only allowed to withdraw 66 Euros per day, time to empty my savings?
To the folks with their finger on the pulse of the economy, please let me know in advance when it's time to empty my savings.

EDIT: Anyone ever fill out this suspicious activity report when the transaction involves $10k or more?
This gets submitted to the IRS, then what? I get put on a list?

cohodk · June 29, 2015 8:46PM

<< 

<< The Greek people want nothing to do with Russia. >>

Yet they are pretty fed up with the alternative. Boils down to what they perceive to be the worse of two evils. >>

Russia really is no alternative and the people know that. They will go it alone.

bluelobster · June 29, 2015 10:19PM

<< 

<< 

<< The Greek people want nothing to do with Russia. >>

Yet they are pretty fed up with the alternative. Boils down to what they perceive to be the worse of two evils. >>

Russia really is no alternative and the people know that. They will go it alone. >>

Any thought Russia is going to to be the sugar Daddy to Greece is way over-blown
How do you think ordinary Russians would think about paying for the Greeks?

Russia not going to be Syriza's sugar daddy

bronco2078 · June 29, 2015 10:48PM

I think the Russians are offering a gas pipeline . That is real money not phony digits in a computer. The pipeline has to go somewhere so take it.

Greeks aren't broke , the greek government is broke there is a difference. Kinda like the US government 18 trillion deficit broke. Figured one way I owe a slice of that bill but I won't be paying either.

If the choice was to lay off government workers or cut grandmas pension governments the world over all agree which is going to take place. Grandmas everywhere need to stock up on cat food .

I think dry cat food probably tastes better but its kinda boring.

You guys going on about socialism are cracking me up . How do you tell if a place is socialist? you know like 48% of the population that take government money? 99 weeks of unemployment? Obamacare ?

derryb · June 30, 2015 1:10AM

<< Any thought Russia is going to to be the sugar Daddy to Greece is way over-blown
How do you think ordinary Russians would think about paying for the Greeks? >>

Probably not much different than Americans feel about paying for people all over the world. But they do nothing about it. Ordinary people have no control over their government's decisions be it a democracy or a communist state.

bronco2078 · June 30, 2015 11:27PM

Greek Debt is at least twice as high as it needed to be purely because of derivatives. Sold to Greece by Goldman Sachs JPM and all the usual subjects.

No different than what they did to state and local governments here in the US.

derryb · June 30, 2015 11:55PM

<< Greek Debt is at least twice as high as it needed to be purely because of derivatives. Sold to Greece by Goldman Sachs JPM and all the usual subjects. No different than what they did to state and local governments here in the US. >>

Goldman Sachs Doesn’t Have Clean Hands in Greece Crisis

What next?

derryb · July 1, 2015 9:22AM

According to Martin Armstrong You can check into the EU but you can never leave: "Article 352 allows the EU to wage economic war on any member state to force its will upon the people, regardless of what they vote. What appears to be underway here is a very nasty move toward a complete collapse in any democratic right of the Greek people to exit the Euro."

I guess once you sell your soul to the Devil you can never buy it back.

roadrunner · July 1, 2015 11:16AM

<< 

<< Greek Debt is at least twice as high as it needed to be purely because of derivatives. Sold to Greece by Goldman Sachs JPM and all the usual subjects. No different than what they did to state and local governments here in the US. >>

Goldman Sachs Doesn’t Have Clean Hands in Greece Crisis
>>

Just more of those harmless "bets" ushered in by the TBTJ banks.

MsMorrisine · July 1, 2015 12:05PM

It's as if the Greeks think the status quo should just be maintained. All the benefits of the EU and all the bail out money. "Why Try"

I feel like the only right solution now is to kick them out.

If the above is true and economic war can be waged instead of voting them out, then we may see some nastiness in the EU and with the euro. Germany stops money. Perhaps France caves and helps some for a while. The ECB and member nations could stop buying Greek debt. The euro could weaken further as Greece tries to place euro denominated debt with the gamblers in an adverse market.

I see Tsipras games being played for a long time. The unknown is the ECB and members' responses.

bronco2078 · July 1, 2015 12:23PM

<< It's as if the Greeks think the status quo should just be maintained. All the benefits of the EU and all the bail out money. "Why Try"

I feel like the only right solution now is to kick them out.

If the above is true and economic war can be waged instead of voting them out, then we may see some nastiness in the EU and with the euro. Germany stops money. Perhaps France caves and helps some for a while. The ECB and member nations could stop buying Greek debt. The euro could weaken further as Greece tries to place euro denominated debt with the gamblers in an adverse market.

I see Tsipras games being played for a long time. The unknown is the ECB and members' responses. >>

The problem with that theory is that the Euro was not set up for the good of the population of the countries in it. It was always just another wealth transfer from the weak to the strong. It's weird that they left no provision for a country to leave the union though. After you are done fleecing the mark why keep them around ? Once the target is broke you need to get them out in a way that doesn't spook the next pigeon.

cohodk · July 1, 2015 12:26PM

TwoSides2aCoin · July 1, 2015 10:39PM

Which came first : The chicken or the egg ?

For the answer, hearsay ….Hint

bluelobster · July 1, 2015 10:53PM

Some people will blame the Germans and the lenders, some will blame the Greeks, but regardless, how do you negotiate with Tsipras and Sryiza? they play all sides, not just within days but within hours. How would you make any binding legal agreement with them?...How on earth can they honestly tell the Greek people that their bargaining position will be stronger if they vote no?

Game theory may make you think you are clever, but this is no game.

derryb · July 2, 2015 12:25AM

Tsipras is doing what he was hired to do.

For those unclear on the upcoming Greek vote, a "Yes" is to accept creditors' bailout terms. Greek finance minister has made it clear he will resign if there is a "Yes" vote.

<< How on earth can they honestly tell the Greek people that their bargaining position will be stronger if they vote no? >>

They only have a bargaining position as long as they do not give the EU what the EU wants. It has become political with the EU forgetting it is a monetary union, not a political union. Without a political union the EU is powerless. The EU power houses see Greece as an opportunity to set political precedence.

cohodk · July 2, 2015 7:05AM

I have a friend who just arrived in Greece 2 days. Very little talk among the locals about the "crisis".

The TV does add 15 pounds. Lol

guitarwes · July 2, 2015 7:11AM

Or 15 Drachmas?

bluelobster · July 2, 2015 7:38AM

Tsipras doing what he was hired to do...good one ; Next you'll tell me Putin is just misunderstood.

Maybe Greece won't need drachmas and can just use rubles.. ouzo or vodka take your choice.

derryb · July 2, 2015 9:31AM

Putin is not misunderstood. However, he is demonized by the West. Anyone who won't play quietly with the corporate west is a threat. The only chance of survival for such entities is size and power. Khadaffi and Hussein learned this first hand. Lesson learned: Do not over estimate your size or your power.

How Greece Has Fallen Victim to "Economic Hit Men"

derryb · July 3, 2015 2:00PM

Free haircuts

bronco2078 · July 3, 2015 9:07PM

<< Next you'll tell me Putin is just misunderstood.

>>

He is not misunderstood its just bad PR . The media is basically captured here and they have done a hatchet job on him . If Putin was President of the US I bet his approval rating would be through the roof. He would be getting the golden boy treatment instead . He can hardly be a worse leader than the last three idiots we have had .

derryb · July 4, 2015 12:31AM

Why the Euro is finished

"This currency that Greece is fighting so hard to be part of is in fact strangling it. The reason for this lies in the structure of the EMU. Which makes it impossible for individual countries to adapt to changing circumstances. And circumstances always change. As a country, you need flexibility, you need to be able to adapt to world events."

"The smaller, poorer, countries in the eurozone need to get out while they can, and as fast as they can, or they will find themselves saddled with ever more losses of the richer nations as the euro falls apart. The structure guarantees it."

bluelobster · July 4, 2015 2:16AM

<< 

<< Next you'll tell me Putin is just misunderstood.

<< Putin is not misunderstood. However, he is demonized by the West. Anyone who won't play quietly with the corporate west is a threat. The only chance of survival for such entities is size and power. Khadaffi and Hussein learned this first hand. Lesson learned: Do not over estimate your size or your power. >>

>>

He is not misunderstood its just bad PR . The media is basically captured here and they have done a hatchet job on him . If Putin was President of the US I bet his approval rating would be through the roof. He would be getting the golden boy treatment instead . He can hardly be a worse leader than the last three idiots we have had . >>

While I agree none of our recent leaders have been anything great to behold and I'm not going to compare Putin to Stalin or Hitler, I definitely do not get the love for Putin, that is apparent in some corners of this forum. He has always eliminated(with extreme prejudice) dissent and the dissenters and continues to do so. The media is captured here?, sure, to some degree, but still nothing compared to the way Putin controls the Russian press and news media. Putin holds on to power ad infinitum, and that just corrupts him even more, imo. He runs his empire by use of vicious, corrupt criminal gangsters, such as Kadyrov, which even he has no handle on.

Clearly, a few people would disagree with me on this forum, while Putin would have some staunch supporters, like any strongman and dictator elicits, I don't think there is any way his approval rating would be "through the roof here". Of course, if he campaigned while riding his horse shirtless, I'm sure he would get a few extra votes. ;~

derryb · July 5, 2015 7:21AM

Bankers of the world take notice. I applaud the Greeks for telling un-elected outsiders that they will no longer dictate Greece's future. Yes, hard times ahead but at least the can kicking can stop and an economy can be rebuilt. Unfortunately the tin can soccer match is still alive in the USA.

Time for the Spaniards and Italians to join the party. Time for Germany to take care of their own affairs.

cohodk · July 5, 2015 7:27AM

<< Bankers of the world take notice. I applaud the Greeks for telling un-elected outsiders that they will no longer dictate Greece's future. Yes, hard times ahead but at least the can kicking can stop and an economy can be rebuilt. Unfortunately the tin can soccer match is still alive in the USA.

Time for the Spaniards and Italians to join the party. Time for Germany to take care of their own affairs. >>

And US $ to da moon.

Greece

Comments