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Russia is selling gold to help their financial difficulties

1970s1970s Posts: 3,093 ✭✭✭✭✭
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  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,118 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The "news" story fails to mention that they are also taking in gold in exchange for oil and gas. Russia is well aware of the West's efforts (with the aid of Saudi Arabia) to destabilize it's economy through low energy prices and has been preparing for it by taking advantage of low gold prices.

    The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.

  • DrBusterDrBuster Posts: 5,301 ✭✭✭✭✭
    4 billion? What is that piddly amount going to do for mother Russia?
  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
    A lot of gold movement these days.... Oil prices dropping.... Should be interesting for a while.... Cheers, RickO
  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,553 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Russia could very easily have no gold in 2 years. They gonna wish they still had US dollars.

    Viva la Petrodollar!!!imageimage
    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • OPAOPA Posts: 17,104 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It's going to take a while to deplete their gold reserves....the country has the second largest gold reserves in the world at 12,500 tonnes (over 400 million ounces). Yup...about 2 years at the rate of $4 billion a week.
    "Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,118 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Russia could very easily have no gold in 2 years. They gonna wish they still had US dollars.

    Viva la Petrodollar!!!imageimage >>


    Their oil (and nat. gas and gold) will be worth much more then your dollars in two years. image

    The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.



  • << <i>

    << <i>Russia could very easily have no gold in 2 years. They gonna wish they still had US dollars.

    Viva la Petrodollar!!!imageimage >>


    Their oil (and nat. gas and gold) will be worth much more then your dollars in two years. image >>



    Derry, I have a bad feeling you are right.
  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,553 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Russia could very easily have no gold in 2 years. They gonna wish they still had US dollars.

    Viva la Petrodollar!!!imageimage >>


    Their oil (and nat. gas and gold) will be worth much more then your dollars in two years. image >>




    Thats what you said 2 years ago.imageimageimage
    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,118 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>Russia could very easily have no gold in 2 years. They gonna wish they still had US dollars.

    Viva la Petrodollar!!!imageimage >>


    Their oil (and nat. gas and gold) will be worth much more then your dollars in two years. image >>




    Thats what you said 2 years ago.imageimageimage >>


    No, I have been saying the petrodollar will loose it's status in worldwide transactions. If you check you will see that not only have I been correct, but the future grows bleaker for petrodollar status as non-US trading partners continue to abandon it.

    The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,553 ✭✭✭✭✭


    Didnt Iran and Russia agree not to us dollars in their transactions? I wonder how the Iranians like their rubles now. LOL
    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,118 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Didnt Iran and Russia agree not to us dollars in their transactions? I wonder how the Iranians like their rubles now. LOL >>


    Actually, Iran is receiving grain for oil sold to Russia, another blow to the petrodollar. You really should broaden your reading horizons. image

    The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.



  • << <i>

    << <i>Didnt Iran and Russia agree not to us dollars in their transactions? I wonder how the Iranians like their rubles now. LOL >>


    Actually, Iran is receiving grain for oil sold to Russia, another blow to the petrodollar. You really should broaden your reading horizons. image >>



    What amazes me is that some that work within the system act like they know so much, yet, fail to see the obvious.
  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 29,357 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think we are going to see a solid Russo/Iranian pact sooner rather than later, then it will get scary interesting.
  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>It's going to take a while to deplete their gold reserves....the country has the second largest gold reserves in the world at 12,500 tonnes (over 400 million ounces). Yup...about 2 years at the rate of $4 billion a week. >>




    Are those above ground or below ground (proven and probable) ounces? References for Russia's 12,500 tonnes of gold reserves? If it's underground mines, how fast are they mining it? China supposedly is now the world's leading gold miner with about 360 tonnes extracted per year. With Russia doing less than that, it would take them nearly 35 years to exhaust 12,500 tonnes of total reserves.

    The US has the world's largest above ground (at least per IMF, WGC, USA, etc.) gold reserves at approx 261.5 MILL troy ounces (8,133.5 tonnes). Russia is listed as 1,168 tonnes on the Sept 2014 WGC list.


    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • SaorAlbaSaorAlba Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I am not so sure that the West is sitting pretty as the West thinks it is. Not sure Russia is too comfortable either, but they have a few years of trade surplus and budget surpluses and gold and oil reserves. The US has a ineffective legislature and executive that cannot even agree on budgets or anything else.
    In memory of my kitty Seryozha 14.2.1996 ~ 13.9.2016 and Shadow 3.4.2015 - 16.4.21
  • bluelobsterbluelobster Posts: 1,220 ✭✭✭


    << <i>No, I have been saying the petrodollar will loose it's status in worldwide transactions. If you check you will see that not only have I been correct, but the future grows bleaker for petrodollar status as non-US trading partners continue to abandon it. >>



    Regardless of Putin's, Maduro's and other pontifications and bluster, hasn't the the opposite actually happened? and even now, the undiversified natural resource and undeveloped economies of Russia and Venezuela are seeking dollars not the other way around.
  • streeterstreeter Posts: 4,312 ✭✭✭✭✭
    One ton of Russian Federation proven gold reserves and $US5 will buy you a latte in Moscow.

    Commodities/proven reserves/promises/trade pacts are great in a bull market. Not so much when we hit the bear.

    Never bet against the USA.
    Have a nice day
  • streeterstreeter Posts: 4,312 ✭✭✭✭✭
    BTW,
    Russian economy(if one could locate it), would fit into a corner of California and you still couldn't find it. The G20 doesn't even want them.
    Have a nice day
  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,118 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Never bet against the USA. >>


    National pride and patriotism are poor reasons to have faith in economic matters or in those who determine them. It contaminates objectivity when objectivity is most needed.



    << <i>BTW,
    Russian economy(if one could locate it), would fit into a corner of California and you still couldn't find it. The G20 doesn't even want them. >>


    Fifth largest economy in the world behind US, China, India and Japan. Ahead of Germany, France and the United Kingdom. Russia is a member of the G20. Recent disagreement between Russia and fellow "US influenced" G20 members is the fact that Russia supports Ukrainians who oppose the recently installed US puppet Ukrainian regime. G20 is 100% politics regardless of their stated purpose.

    The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,118 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Russia's GDP is the same as Italy >>



    More recent info. Since then China has become the largest economy.

    The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,118 ✭✭✭✭✭
    And the GDP numbers are measured in terms of US dollars. Different measurement, different results.

    Also note that Russia currently has a strong trading partner in China, has dependent natural gas customers all over europe and is currently forging even larger economic ties with India who is the third largest economy. The current "Cold War" is an economic war and Putin appears to be a competent adversary. His handling of the Ukraine situation (not getting quick on the trigger as his opponents had hoped for) is evidence. Western sanctions over Ukraine basically shot the West in the foot as will most likely their attempt to bankrupt Russia with low oil prices. For those that do not realize it, history shows that sanctions from the West most always come at a cost to those in the West.

    The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.

  • SaorAlbaSaorAlba Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i> For those that do not realize it, history shows that sanctions from the West most always come at a cost to those in the West. >>



    Not quite, the trade embargo against Cuba removed Fidel Castro from power early in 1962(whoops, not quite - actually he is still pulling strings!)image
    In memory of my kitty Seryozha 14.2.1996 ~ 13.9.2016 and Shadow 3.4.2015 - 16.4.21
  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,118 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i> For those that do not realize it, history shows that sanctions from the West most always come at a cost to those in the West. >>



    Not quite, the trade embargo against Cuba removed Fidel Castro from power early in 1962(whoops, not quite - actually he is still pulling strings!)image >>


    And continues to punish Americans with family in Cuba and deprives me of Cuban cigars. Sad state of affairs that two countries located so close together cannot share their culture or their exports. Cuba continues to pay the price for ridding their country of mobster control and mobster corruption. The fact that this continues so many years later is a testament to who is running the show from this end.

    The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.

  • bluelobsterbluelobster Posts: 1,220 ✭✭✭
    Derry, do you believe this oil crash is controlled by the US government and they can make it stop any time they want? Saudis, OPEC, independent oil companies and market forces of supply and demand are not the biggest factor?. Is the Government in control of the shale oil, are all of these drillers only doing the government's bidding? I thought they were capitalists making money in spite of the government and if the current Government had their way oil prices would be higher.

    Plus, do you think the Saudis are in cahoots with the US drillers and shale oil companies?....Personally, I think it's clear the Saudis are trying to force many of them out of production.

    Of course, is the west and the US government upset Comrade Dictator Putin is getting squeezed ?.. unlikely.
  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,553 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Didnt Iran and Russia agree not to us dollars in their transactions? I wonder how the Iranians like their rubles now. LOL >>


    Actually, Iran is receiving grain for oil sold to Russia, another blow to the petrodollar. You really should broaden your reading horizons. image >>




    Russia trading grain for oil has absolutely zero impact on the US dollar. No need to read propaganda.

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,118 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Derry, do you believe this oil crash is controlled by the US government and they can make it stop any time they want? Saudis, OPEC, independent oil companies and market forces of supply and demand are not the biggest factor?. Is the Government in control of the shale oil, are all of these drillers only doing the government's bidding? I thought they were capitalists making money in spite of the government and if the current Government had their way oil prices would be higher.

    Plus, do you think the Saudis are in cahoots with the US drillers and shale oil companies?....Personally, I think it's clear the Saudis are trying to force many of them out of production.

    Of course, is the west and the US government upset Comrade Dictator Putin is getting squeezed ?.. unlikely. >>


    I do believe the Saudis do the bidding of Washington even when up against OPEC. In this case they get the added benefit of harming US production. I also believe we are in an economic war with the East in an effort to defend petrodollar domination and the welfare of US jobs and individual interests will take a temporary back seat to doing economical harm to the Russians or anyone who challenges US$ reserve currency status. Remember, it is this status that creates a huge demand/need for dollars (and more importantly US debt) to be held by foreign nations. One reason for "allowing" the recent surge in the dollar index at the cost of US exports (and US jobs) is to strengthen this dollar demand. The final battle is underway to defend the world wide position of the US dollar and American consumers/workers will be considered collateral damage.

    The oil market has been a rigged game since the formation of OPEC. While supply helps sets price, holders of oil set supply. Yes, I believe oil supply is currently being politically dictated by the US. I also believe Putin is fully capable of defending his economy. Extremely large oil product and service investment by the mega banks will soon end low oil prices as Wall St. will take only so much loss before yanking on the strings of their puppets in Washington. Not only do banks have a huge direct investment in things such as tankers and oil storage facilities, they are also have provided a lot of oil related loans.

    The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,553 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Never bet against the USA

    Careful Streeter. Many here might say you have your head in the sand.



    I also believe Putin is fully capable of defending his economy


    Yeah, he'll probably take his shirt off and ride around on a horse. I believe he is one of the most arrogant people on the planet. Arrogant people always fail...always.
    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,118 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Didnt Iran and Russia agree not to us dollars in their transactions? I wonder how the Iranians like their rubles now. LOL >>




    << <i>Actually, Iran is receiving grain for oil sold to Russia, another blow to the petrodollar. You really should broaden your reading horizons. image >>




    << <i>Russia trading grain for oil has absolutely zero impact on the US dollar. No need to read propaganda. >>


    A little "zero impact" here and a little there is starting to add up. Panic dollar protection efforts are the evidence.



    << <i>Arrogant people always fail...always >>


    The one you went with seems to be holding his own. image

    The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.

  • streeterstreeter Posts: 4,312 ✭✭✭✭✭
    News Flash Derryb,

    The Russian economy is circling the drain

    Sshhhhh don't let this get out...... if your economy is commodity based and oil drops 50%---you just entered a depression
    OVERNIGHT.


    If you would accept someones stats that the Russian economy is that strong...well all I can say is... RT much?
    Have a nice day
  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,118 ✭✭✭✭✭
    News Flash streeter,

    Most all large economies are circling the drain. Deflation is a beech.

    Never said Russia's economy was strong. Did say that it is large. And did say that it has a leader who will fight for it and will stand up to those who threaten it. It has the ingredients to become strong and it will.

    Commodity based economies are in better shape than those built on debt. Debt can become worthless, commodities cannot. image

    The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.

  • streeterstreeter Posts: 4,312 ✭✭✭✭✭
    California gdp 2013, $2.050 trillion

    Russian Federation, gdp 2013, $2.096 trillion
    Well we must add Crimea in 2014 mustn't we....

    No way rusky is numero cinco.

    BTW, who has the largest quality manufacturing sector?
    The shortest lines in the world are businessmen lined up to fly on a ten year old Chinese or Russian plane.

    RT must love you Derryb.
    Have a nice day
  • bluelobsterbluelobster Posts: 1,220 ✭✭✭


    << <i>News Flash streeter,

    Most all large economies are circling the drain. Deflation is a beech.

    Never said Russia's economy was strong. Did say that it is large. And did say that it has a leader who will fight for it and will stand up to those who threaten it. It has the ingredients to become strong and it will.

    Commodity based economies are in better shape than those built on debt. Debt can become worthless, commodities cannot. image >>



    Is it possible that an idea, could be more valuable than a commodity?
  • streeterstreeter Posts: 4,312 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Derryb,

    Suggest you investigate just how fast that commodity centric economy is burning through it's reserves.

    Russian Federation is about out of options. If it's
    primary sources of revenue continue to decline, your hero Vlad will be seeking early retirement. Russians are in process of being squeezed by their incomplete national business plan.

    In other words... if you need to buy a car... YOU would have to cough up twice as much silver as two years ago. So if measured by a commodity you would have been subject to 50% inflation. And if you need to keep buying things with your silver as a bases of your savings...you WILL run out of silver before the. World runs out of THINGS to buy. Your alternative would be NOT TO CONSUME...which is exactly what is happening in Russia.

    Cheers, chucko
    Have a nice day
  • streeterstreeter Posts: 4,312 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Derryb & all others who believe commodities are the center of the Universe,

    Say Russia pumps and delivers one barrel of oil and receives $100 and it's budget is balanced. Then the price declines to $50/barrel. Now it has to pump and sell two barrels to balance it's budget. We now have a glut of oil on the market and the market doesn't accept $50 as a price any longer. Oops Russia has to pump and sell more. Oops.

    Not a good plan to base your budget on selling oil and gold into falling prices.

    China has Russia right where they want them with that pipeline deal. And with those wacky North Koreans, Syrians and Iranians as your principle allies and trading partners...well... it's off to the dasha sooner than later for bare chested boy.

    Cheers, chucko
    Have a nice day
  • MGLICKERMGLICKER Posts: 7,995 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Never bet against the USA

    Careful Streeter. Many here might say you have your head in the sand.



    I also believe Putin is fully capable of defending his economy


    Yeah, he'll probably take his shirt off and ride around on a horse. I believe he is one of the most arrogant people on the planet. Arrogant people always fail...always. >>



  • MGLICKERMGLICKER Posts: 7,995 ✭✭✭


    << <i> I believe he is one of the most arrogant people on the planet. Arrogant people always fail...always. >>

    >>



    True, we are seeing that in DC.
  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,118 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Derryb & all others who believe commodities are the center of the Universe,

    Say Russia pumps and delivers one barrel of oil and receives $100 and it's budget is balanced. Then the price declines to $50/barrel. Now it has to pump and sell two barrels to balance it's budget. We now have a glut of oil on the market and the market doesn't accept $50 as a price any longer. Oops Russia has to pump and sell more. Oops.

    Not a good plan to base your budget on selling oil and gold into falling prices. >>


    Worse than basing your budget on increasing national debt that continuously debases your currency?

    Budgets and GDP are two completely different topics. Your leaders decided to go with the world wide economy theme. Best you understand the role that the other economies play in affecting the future of your own. I am not advocating one economy over another. I am pointing out that it is no longer a single economy world and that national pride/patriotism should not blind one into believing so.


    The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.

  • OPAOPA Posts: 17,104 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Never bet against the USA. >>


    National pride and patriotism are poor reasons to have faith in economic matters or in those who determine them. It contaminates objectivity when objectivity is most needed.



    << <i>BTW,
    Russian economy(if one could locate it), would fit into a corner of California and you still couldn't find it. The G20 doesn't even want them. >>


    Fifth largest economy in the world behind US, China, India and Japan. Ahead of Germany, France and the United Kingdom. Russia is a member of the G20. Recent disagreement between Russia and fellow "US influenced" G20 members is the fact that Russia supports Ukrainians who oppose the recently installed US puppet Ukrainian regime. G20 is 100% politics regardless of their stated purpose. >>



    Not so sure where you got your info from...but not according to every chart that I've looked at. below link is one of them.

    World economies by rank
    "Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,553 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The ruble vs the dollar. This chart isnt turning around anytime soon and is probably 30% lower in 2 years.

    image



    The ruble is even losing value vs the japanese yen.

    image




    Russian GDP will be 15% lower next year. The Oligarchs will not be happy. Putin better know how to ride that horse.
    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
    A rising GDP is not necessarily a sign of great economic health. In particular, if rising consumer and govt spending is being done at the expensive of rising debt, and overcomes investment by industry/individuals + the nation's net exports, that's not a win-win. A Genuine Progress Indicator (GPI) would allow some offsets. GDP is a fairly simple marker for the public to watch but with many shortcomings.
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,553 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Didnt Iran and Russia agree not to us dollars in their transactions? I wonder how the Iranians like their rubles now. LOL >>




    << <i>Actually, Iran is receiving grain for oil sold to Russia, another blow to the petrodollar. You really should broaden your reading horizons. image >>




    << <i>Russia trading grain for oil has absolutely zero impact on the US dollar. No need to read propaganda. >>


    A little "zero impact" here and a little there is starting to add up. Panic dollar protection efforts are the evidence.



    << <i>Arrogant people always fail...always >>


    The one you went with seems to be holding his own. image >>




    0 + 0 = 0

    Panic is an extreme emotion that almost always leads to incorrect decision.

    Many a men have failed by confusing confidence with arrogance.

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,553 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>A rising GDP is not necessarily a sign of great economic health. In particular, if rising consumer and govt spending is being done at the expensive of rising debt, and overcomes investment by industry/individuals and the nation's net exports, that's not a win-win. A Genuine Progress Indicator (GPI) would allow some offsets. GDP is a fairly simple marker for the public to watch but with many shortcomings. >>



    Of course, but its pretty hard to argue that a falling GDP is not a sign of poor economic health.

    Russia sells no value added products. They are only a supplier to industry and are at the whim of those industries. They may think they hold the cards by withholding supplies, but industry, by nature, is innovative and can easily find alternatives.

    Its been a long time since an assassination of a major global political figure.



    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,118 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Russian GDP will be 15% lower next year. The Oligarchs will not be happy. Putin better know how to ride that horse. >>


    Low energy prices are a temporary horse. They always bounce back even higher. The Ogeys know this.



    << <i>Russia sells no value added products. They are only a supplier to industry and are at the whim of those industries. They may think they hold the cards by withholding supplies, but industry, by nature, is innovative and can easily find alternatives. >>


    Oil rich nations appear to be doing quite well with no value added products. They will continue to do well in the long term. Much of europe is heavily dependent on Russian natural gas, moreso than they are dependent on dollars. In the dead of winter with no gas, they will abandon their US loyalties.



    << <i>Its been a long time since an assassination of a major global political figure. >>


    most likely because those seeking a change have finally realized there is a conglomerate pulling the strings and cutting one string does not affect those pulling the strings.

    The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.

  • rawteam1rawteam1 Posts: 2,472 ✭✭✭
    [q]there is a conglomerate pulling the strings and cutting one string does not affect those pulling the strings. >>


    Wow, this has to be one if the greatest flawed conspiracy mantras, no logic can be found in it...
    Now enter "the conglomerate"... Lol... Jeesh...
    keceph `anah
  • OPAOPA Posts: 17,104 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Much of europe is heavily dependent on Russian natural gas, moreso than they are dependent on dollars. >>



    derryb..very unlikely, if anything...Gazprom will be the one hurting with 40% of revenue coming from Europe.

    Gazprom taking a hit
    "Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,118 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Energy prices are being manipulated lower (with the aid of the Saudis who need US help against Syria) in an attempt to bankrupt Russia. This will have it's share of blowback and retaliation. The ultimate question is can Russia outlast the attempt and at what cost to those making the attempt. Time will tell.



    << <i>there is a conglomerate pulling the strings and cutting one string does not affect those pulling the strings. >>




    << <i>Wow, this has to be one if the greatest flawed conspiracy mantras, no logic can be found in it...
    Now enter "the conglomerate"... Lol... Jeesh... >>


    Plenty of evidence and logic that leaders serve those with the money. If you can't see it, then you just can't see it...Lol

    The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.

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