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Another big banker "does himself in"

derrybderryb Posts: 36,118 ✭✭✭✭✭
Took his wife along for the ride. 15th this year. Those insurance policies that their employers carry on them must really be paying off.

JPM Global Network Operations Center Executive Director another casualty

The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.

«1

Comments

  • MGLICKERMGLICKER Posts: 7,995 ✭✭✭
    Never understood why these folks feel compelled to take an innocent victim with them. image
  • GRANDAMGRANDAM Posts: 8,353 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Huh,,,,,,, anyone know how many doctors, lawyers, accounts, farmers and factory workers have done the same thing in this time frame?

    Just wondering, GrandAm image
    GrandAm :)
  • mariner67mariner67 Posts: 2,746 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Huh,,,,,,, anyone know how many doctors, lawyers, accounts, farmers and factory workers have done the same thing in this time frame?

    Just wondering, GrandAm image >>



    Very correct....you need to know how many committed suicide(numerator) out of what population base(demominator) to come to any valid assessment.
    Other than that itis all meaningless.
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  • dbcoindbcoin Posts: 2,200 ✭✭
    number of US suicides per year is over 30,000 now. 15 JPM guys killing themselves seems low in that context


    Number of deaths for leading causes of death
    Heart disease: 597,689
    Cancer: 574,743
    Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 138,080
    Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 129,476
    Accidents (unintentional injuries): 120,859
    Alzheimer's disease: 83,494
    Diabetes: 69,071
    Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis: 50,476
    Influenza and Pneumonia: 50,097
    Intentional self-harm (suicide): 38,364
  • MGLICKERMGLICKER Posts: 7,995 ✭✭✭
    You forgot the iatrogenic death rate. It is in the 200,000 range.
  • OPAOPA Posts: 17,104 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>You forgot the iatrogenic death rate. It is in the 200,000 range. >>



    225,000 deaths per year
    "Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,118 ✭✭✭✭✭
    this thread is worthless without a chart.

    The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,553 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Im really worried for my buddy at JPM.
    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,118 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Im really worried for my buddy at JPM. >>


    And they don't even have to tell him if he is insured by them and for how much. image

    The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.

  • mariner67mariner67 Posts: 2,746 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Im really worried for my buddy at JPM. >>



    image
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  • What percentage of the population work in the Financial world. Were they pushed into doing themselves in, to save the real THEIVES! You know they had to have known what they were doing back WHEN was wrong....See greed is no good, My belief is that if I can not carry it in my hand, I do not want it. Simplicity is the best.
  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Interesting, but not significant without comparative analysis..... Cheers, RickO
  • jdimmickjdimmick Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    at least he left his kids alone.

    Local guy here last year, who used to be financially well off, suddenly loss it all and hunted down his family in there own home and killed em all and himself.
  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,118 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Interesting, but not significant without comparative analysis..... Cheers, RickO >>


    He is as dead as 100% of the others. image

    The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.

  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,796 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I feel for their children and friends left behind.
  • Steve27Steve27 Posts: 13,267 ✭✭✭
    No indication it was work related.
    "It's far easier to fight for principles, than to live up to them." Adlai Stevenson
  • BarndogBarndog Posts: 20,454 ✭✭✭✭✭
    fifteen replies an no conspiracy theories? What is this forum coming to?
  • OPAOPA Posts: 17,104 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>fifteen replies an no conspiracy theories? What is this forum coming to? >>



    More street wise? image
    "Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,118 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>fifteen replies an no conspiracy theories? What is this forum coming to? >>




    << <i>More street wise? image >>


    More conditioned.

    Fact - Bank executives, as are many corporate execs, are insured by their employers and the employer collects on the policy, enjoying tax breaks on the proceeds. Efforts by news media to get the dollar numbers involved have been met with judges siding with the banks that it is "proprietary inside information" and can be kept secret. The insured and even the deceased's family are not even required to be notified of the policy's existence or its payout. It's a "secret" bet between the employer and the insurance company with the employer betting on death.

    The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,553 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>fifteen replies an no conspiracy theories? What is this forum coming to? >>




    << <i>More street wise? image >>


    More conditioned.

    Fact - Bank executives, as are many corporate execs, are insured by their employers and the employer collects on the policy, enjoying tax breaks on the proceeds. Efforts by news media to get the dollar numbers involved have been met with judges siding with the banks that it is "proprietary inside information" and can be kept secret. The insured and even the deceased's family are not even required to be notified of the policy's existence or its payout. It's a "secret" bet between the employer and the insurance company with the employer betting on death. >>



    So what? Maybe I have a life insurance policy on you. imageimage

    Havent we shown that 1000s of companies carry life insurance on their employees and that this practice has been going on since the 1970's?

    Citigroup made $3.9 billion. How much of that was a "tax break" on insurance policy proceeds?

    I wonder how much the post office has made on its employees? Thats probably why postal employees go "postal". They are forced to kill other employees then themselves. Its not like the PO doesnt have motive. LOL
    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,118 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Why is that when a suspicious suicide is investigated by police that one of the early questions asked is "who benefited from the death?" We know that big banks carry big life insurance on many of their employees, often without the knowledge of the employee. We know that the premiums paid are a tax deductible business expense and that the proceeds from these policies are gained tax free by the employers. We also know they that have successfully fought in court to keep the dollar amounts involved a "proprietary" corporate secret.

    Assuming the recent rash in banker deaths is in fact undisputable suicide, is it still not quite possible that JPM and its fellow banks, with their history of questionable investments, have, with the right life expectancy and risk calculations, found a lucrative and tax free profitable stream of revenue? Given JPM's history, I'm suggesting that an entire corporate office exists with the sole purpose of determining which employees make the best life insurance "investment," processing and managing these "investments," and managing (reinvesting) the tax free proceeds from the "investment" payouts. While certainly not illegal (thus disqualifying it from being a "conspiracy"), I'm suggesting that the size and extent of this profitable "market" puts it right alongside the many other shady JPM investment actions.

    Because the courts side with the secrecy of this "proprietary" information, we will not know the size and impact of this investment scheme until a good investigative reporter (Matt Taibbi?) succeeds in getting the inside scoop on what lies behind the curtain.The fact that the banks have have spent big dollars (legal/court expenses) to label this information "proprietary" speaks volumes of what their employee life insurance program is to them. Another question that needs be asked is "at what dollar profit amount does a beneficiary consider expediting an early death of the insured?" - something that happens often in "private" America. Given their track record, is "corporate banking" America really any less capable?

    The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.

  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,305 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I didn't know that insurance companies paid off life insurance when the cause of death is ruled as a suicide.
    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,118 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I didn't know that insurance companies paid off life insurance when the cause of death is ruled as a suicide. >>


    Depends on the policy, and often times how long the policy has been in affect. I would think a company "protecting" itself from death of a key employee would want the widest coverage possible. My $500K policy covers it, but I dare not tell the wifey.

    The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,553 ✭✭✭✭✭
    is it still not quite possible that JPM and its fellow banks, with their history of questionable investments, have, with the right life expectancy and risk calculations, found a lucrative and tax free profitable stream of revenue?

    Maybe they have. JPM is going to do about $100 billion in revenues this year. How much of this is attributed to life insurance policies? If lets say that JPM benefited to the tune of $10,000,000 on 15 people, that would represent 0.15% of JPMs revenues. Like we have discussed before, this corporate program is has been used by 1000's of companies over the last 40 years. To suggest that JPM is purposely killing off its employees to add 1/10 of 1% to its revenues is quite a stretch.

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • pf70collectorpf70collector Posts: 6,503 ✭✭✭
    I thought their is a limit on how much you can take out on a person not knowing their medical history. Looking at life insurance sites the underwriting involves

    •MVD (Motor Vehicle Department Records)
    •MIB (Medical Insurance Bureau)
    • RX (Pharmacy Records)
    '
    How is this not an invasion of someones's private personal information when that person does not request the life insurance.
  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,305 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Do these policies cover nailgun suicides as well?
    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,118 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>is it still not quite possible that JPM and its fellow banks, with their history of questionable investments, have, with the right life expectancy and risk calculations, found a lucrative and tax free profitable stream of revenue?

    Maybe they have. JPM is going to do about $100 billion in revenues this year. How much of this is attributed to life insurance policies? If lets say that JPM benefited to the tune of $10,000,000 on 15 people, that would represent 0.15% of JPMs revenues. Like we have discussed before, this corporate program is has been used by 1000's of companies over the last 40 years. To suggest that JPM is purposely killing off its employees to add 1/10 of 1% to its revenues is quite a stretch. >>



    Only questioning the possibility, after all there is motive. But I am categorically stating that they, and other banks, are profiting handsomely from the deaths of their empolyees, former employees and retirees. Below article is from 2009, with the insurance coverage numbers likely to have increased in the past five years.

    WSJ (2009): Banks Use Life Insurance to Fund Bonuses

    "Banks are using a little-known tactic to help pay bonuses, deferred pay and pensions they owe executives: They're holding life-insurance policies on hundreds of thousands of their workers, with themselves as the beneficiaries. Banks took out much of this life insurance during the mortgage bubble, when executives' pay -- and the IOUs for their deferred compensation -- surged, and banking regulators affirmed the use of life insurance as a way to finance executive pay and benefits. Banks had a total of $122.3 billion in life insurance on employees at the end of 2008, nearly double the $65.8 billion they held at the end of 2004, according to a Wall Street Journal analysis of bank filings."

    Then again, the article is on the internet and even if it is from the Wall Street Journal, being presented on the internet disqualifies it legitimacy. image

    The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,553 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Do these policies cover nailgun suicides as well? >>



    Drugs can make people do some crazy things. Or maybe this guy was seeing his secretary, or neighbors wife, and someone go jealous. Maybe it was murder. But to conclude JPM was behind it sounds kinda quacky to most people.

    "Profiting handsomely" is relative. And the regulators approved the action, which has been practiced by other companies in other industries for decades. None of that means the banks are purposely killing their employees.
    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,118 ✭✭✭✭✭
    IT work at JPM sure is a dangerous job

    "Since December of last year, JPMorgan Chase has been experiencing tragic, sudden deaths of workers on a scale which sets it alarmingly apart from other Wall Street mega banks. Adding to the concern generated by the deaths is the recent revelation that JPMorgan has an estimated $180 billion of life insurance in force on its current and former workers."

    "The Justice Department, the FBI, Congressional committees and the New York State Attorney General’s office are currently investigating if the stock and futures markets have been rigged by some Wall Street firms using high speed computer technology in conjunction with algorithms deploying artificial intelligence. The investigations gained momentum after bestselling author, Michael Lewis, brought details of the allegations to light in his new book, Flash Boys, and shared the allegations with millions of Americans in a March 30 appearance on Sixty Minutes."


    Looks like computer technology workers at JPM run an unusually high risk of doing themselves in. Surely coincidental, must be the stress of making so much money. image



    << <i>And the regulators approved the action, >>


    Well that sure makes everything on the up and up. image

    The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.

  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 30,977 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Do these policies cover nailgun suicides as well? >>



    Drugs can make people do some crazy things. Or maybe this guy was seeing his secretary, or neighbors wife, and someone go jealous. Maybe it was murder. But to conclude JPM was behind it sounds kinda quacky to most people.

    "Profiting handsomely" is relative. And the regulators approved the action, which has been practiced by other companies in other industries for decades. None of that means the banks are purposely killing their employees. >>



    Sadly, my paranoid relative would disagree with you.
  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,553 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Lots of paranoid people disagree with me.image
    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • drwstr123drwstr123 Posts: 7,026 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Another Deutsche Banker And Former SEC Enforcement Attorney Commits Suicide

    LINK
  • PokermandudePokermandude Posts: 2,709 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Lots of paranoid people disagree with me.image >>



    Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't after you image
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  • drwstr123drwstr123 Posts: 7,026 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Citigroup executive, 42, found dead in the bathtub of his Manhattan apartment with his throat cut

    LINKY
  • VanHalenVanHalen Posts: 3,789 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Citigroup executive, 42, found dead in the bathtub of his Manhattan apartment with his throat cut

    LINKY >>



    Sounds like a murder. image
  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,553 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Lovers quarrel.
    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 22,847 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Does anyone statistically if more bankers or stackers have a higher suicide rate? I know a few PMers who want to jump from their stacks. Trying to talk them down.

    MJ
    Walker Proof Digital Album
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  • drwstr123drwstr123 Posts: 7,026 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Citigroup executive, 42, found dead in the bathtub of his Manhattan apartment with his throat cut

    LINKY >>



    Sounds like a murder. image >>



    NY Daily News-slashed his own throat in Manhattan bathtub during drug- and booze-filled bender
  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,305 ✭✭✭✭✭
    NY Daily News-slashed his own throat in Manhattan bathtub during drug- and booze-filled bender

    Well then, he did an outstanding job of hiding the blade after he slashed his own throat.
    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Does anyone statistically if more bankers or stackers have a higher suicide rate? I know a few PMers who want to jump from their stacks. Trying to talk them down.

    MJ >>




    There will be more stackers in pain soon.

    This is just a pause— someone pushed a button on the elevator down. A few got on, a few got off, but the rest are going lower.




    Now, I knew a guy whose wife was in corp fin. She left after the gov started laying the smack down. She said it "wasn't fun any more."


    The point is this: bankers with a conscience should not kill themselves, they should rat on the ones who actually thought some level of monkey business was "fun."

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • Just a side notes. The titles like "Executive Director" or "Vice President" mean nothing in Wall Street banks, especially in IT. These are just small fries, they don't mean much from conspiracy point of view.
  • guitarwesguitarwes Posts: 9,237 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Does anyone statistically if more bankers or stackers have a higher suicide rate? I know a few PMers who want to jump from their stacks. Trying to talk them down.
    MJ >>


    I'll tell ya what, I'd much rather jump from my scrawny stack than from a Fat Cat corner office in a Manhattan highrise. Now, jump from Silver Baron's stack? Naw, I'd have a big big boo boo then...........
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  • MGLICKERMGLICKER Posts: 7,995 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Just a side notes. The titles like "Executive Director" or "Vice President" mean nothing in Wall Street banks, especially in IT. These are just small fries, they don't mean much from conspiracy point of view. >>



    Good point. Every Merrill Lynch office had at least a handful of VP's.
  • drwstr123drwstr123 Posts: 7,026 ✭✭✭✭✭
    1) David Bird, 55, long-time reporter for the Wall Street Journal working at the Dow Jones news room
    2) Tim Dickenson, a U.K.-based communications director at Swiss Re AG
    3) William Broeksmit, 58, former senior manager for Deutsche Bank
    4) Ryan Henry Crane, age 37, JP Morgan
    5) Li Junjie, 33, Hong Kong JP Morgan
    6) Gabriel Magee, 39, age JP Morgan employee
    7) Mike Dueker, 50, who had worked for Russell Investments
    8) Richard Talley, 57, was the founder and CEO of American Title (real estate titles)
    9) James Stuart Jr. 70, Former National Bank of Commerce CEO was found dead in Scottsdale, Ariz
    10) Jason Alan Salais, 34 year old IT Specialist at JPMorgan since 2008
    11) Autumn Radtke, 28, CEO of First Meta, a Singapore-based virtual currency trading platform
    12) Eddie Reilly, 47, investment banker, Vertical Group, New York
    13) Kenneth Ballando, 28, investment banker, Levy Capital, New york
    14) Joseph A. Giampapa, 55, corporate bankruptcy lawyer, JP Morgan Chase
    15) Jan Peter Schmittmann, 57, voormalig topbestuurder ANB/AMRO, Laren, Nederland
    16) Juergen Frick, 48, CEO Bank Frick & Co AG, Liechtenstein
    17) Benoît Philippens, 37, directeur BNP Parisbas Fortis Bank, Ans, België.
    18) Lydia…, 52, bankier Bred-Banque-Populaire, Parijs
    19) Andrew Jarzyk, 27, bankier, PNC Bank, New York
    20) Carlos Six, 61, Hoofd Belastingdienst en lid CREDAF, België
    21) Jan Winkelhuijzen, 75, Commissaris en Fiscalist (voormalig Deloitte), Nederland.
    22) Richard Rockefeller, 66, achterkleinzoon elitebankier John D. Rockefeller, Amerika
    23) Mahafarid Amir Khosravi (Amir Mansour Aria), 45, bankeigenaar, zakenman en derivatenhandelaar, Iran
    24) Lewis Katz, 76, zakenman, advocaat en insider in de bancaire wereld, Amerika
    25) Julian Knott, Directeur Global Operations Center JP Morgan, 45, Amerika
    26) Richard Gravino, IT Specialist JP Morgan, 49, Amerika
    27) Thomas James Schenkman, Managing Director Global Infrastructure JP Morgan, 42, Amerika
    28) Nicholas Valtz, 39, Managing Director Goldman Sachs, New York, Amerika
    29) Therese Brouwer, 50, Managing Director ING, Nederland
    30) Tod Robert Edward, 51, Vice President M & T Bank, Amerika
    31) Thierry Leyne, 48, investeringsbankier en eigenaar Anatevka S.A., Israël
    32) Calogero Gambino, 41, Managing Director Deutsche Bank, Amerika
    33) Shawn D. Miller, 42, Managing Director Citigroup, New York, Amerika
    34) Melissa Millian, 54, Senior Vice President Mass Mutual, Amerika
    35) Thieu Leenen, 64, Relatiemanager ABN/AMRO, Eindhoven, Nederland
    36) Geert Tack, 52, Private Banker ING, Haaltert, België
  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,118 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Number 34 on the list

    "Information has now emerged that Millan had access to highly sensitive data on bank profits resulting from the collection of life insurance proceeds from her insurance company employer on the death of bank workers – data that a Federal regulator of banks has characterized as “trade secrets. . .Millan was among a limited group outside of Federal regulators who was in a position to have broad data on the death benefit claims being submitted by multiple banks. ”

    Loose end?

    The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.

  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,305 ✭✭✭✭✭
    What's the legal rationale' for the regulators classifying of banking industry insurance payouts on executive deaths as a trade secret? Is it like a patent or something? Would somebody gain an unfair competitive edge by copying the design?

    Just too much weird stuff that nobody ever has to account for. Anything goes, I suppose - as long as you have insiders.
    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • BLUEJAYWAYBLUEJAYWAY Posts: 7,940 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Wonder when a movie will be made about these events.
    Successful transactions:Tookybandit. "Everyone is equal, some are more equal than others".
  • renman95renman95 Posts: 7,037 ✭✭✭✭✭
    9) had a wonderful life.
    20) friend of Carlos Danger?
  • GrumpyEdGrumpyEd Posts: 4,749 ✭✭✭


    << <i> What's the legal rationale' for the regulators classifying of banking industry insurance payouts on executive deaths as a trade secret? >>



    Just guessing, they might consider the life insurance package they give as part of their total compensation.
    They don't want other banks or other employees to see how much they get in compensation.
    Ed
  • cladkingcladking Posts: 28,307 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    Fact - Bank executives, as are many corporate execs, are insured by their employers and the employer collects on the policy, enjoying tax breaks on the proceeds. Efforts by news media to get the dollar numbers involved have been met with judges siding with the banks that it is "proprietary inside information" and can be kept secret. The insured and even the deceased's family are not even required to be notified of the policy's existence or its payout. It's a "secret" bet between the employer and the insurance company with the employer betting on death. >>



    The same people making decisions about their health care stand to profit if they die.

    The judges should be in jail along with many of the surviving bankers.
    Tempus fugit.
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