Home Precious Metals

GOLD AND SILVER, ECONOMIC NEWS, COINS, 2016

Well we did not see the end of the U.S. financial system in 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 or 2015 maybe this year ???

At least the stock market is starting off to be interesting.

I guess all those doomsday bloggers are looking pretty dumb.

We start the year off with Gold at about $1,100 and silver at $14.00 down from last year.

Paper was the place to be again in 2015 with a strong dollar and a hot stock market.



2016
Ladies and Gentlemen here is our thread for the next round.

Lets do this thing!
Terry

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Comments

  • secondrepublicsecondrepublic Posts: 2,619 ✭✭✭
    So we can keep track, here are the closing prices for PMs on Dec. 30, 2011, the last trading day of 2011:

    GOLD: $1,566.40
    SILVER: $27.86
    PLATINUM: $1,397.00
    PALLADIUM: $654.00
    "Men who had never shown any ability to make or increase fortunes for themselves abounded in brilliant plans for creating and increasing wealth for the country at large." Fiat Money Inflation in France, Andrew Dickson White (1912)
  • secondrepublicsecondrepublic Posts: 2,619 ✭✭✭
    Interesting article posted by cohodk on the last page of the old thread:

    Link to article

    Treasuries have been in a 30-year bull market, and the investment manager interviewed in the article thinks it will continue. An interesting fact to keep in mind next time you hear about how "long in the tooth" the 11-year PM bull has gotten. image
    "Men who had never shown any ability to make or increase fortunes for themselves abounded in brilliant plans for creating and increasing wealth for the country at large." Fiat Money Inflation in France, Andrew Dickson White (1912)
  • I thought Gold would do better than it did in 2011, but 11.56% is pretty good considering that the stock market did nothing, and most everything else did not even keep up with the governments reported inflation rates.
  • OPAOPA Posts: 17,104 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I thought Gold would do better than it did in 2011, but 11.56% is pretty good considering that the stock market did nothing, and most everything else did not even keep up with the governments reported inflation rates. >>



    Gold was the winner in 2011, but the rest of the PM market took a hit.
    Silver down 8.54% ytd
    Platinum down...19%
    Palladium down..18%
    Rhodium down..40%+

    My mutual fund was actually up by 12%
    "Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
  • mhammermanmhammerman Posts: 3,769 ✭✭✭
    In appreciation to the contributors to this Mother Thread over the years, here's a big "GOOD JOB"! Thanks GS. Everybody has an opinion and on the first day of year, here are mine.


    Gold and Silver
    Gold and silver will continue to be the store of physical wealth that it has been. PM is likely the last of the physical assets that can be treated as a truely private investment, known only to the physical holder. Gold knows no master beyond he who holds it in his hand. The best thing about gold is that it is so thinly held that it will not gain a lot of interest by the gov and big money, there are much easier cows to cash. The majority of people will never have the financial freedom to accumulate metal but there will be some that see the metals as a real savings account, untouchable by others. Still, the privately held physical metal is unaccounted for by the pervasive financial information systems that divine our creditworthiness and create marketing strategies that aim to coax those frn's and digibuks from our accounts. Gold just sits there, immutable and undisturbed while the world spins at even greater speed...getchasum.

    Economic News
    A new world financial order will be formulated regardless of wishes of the "middle class" or occupiers or tea party. On one hand, we will see an even greater resistance from the users of goods and services to paying small additional fees such as banking fees and communication device charges but they will still pay stupid money for ever cooler techtechnology that becomes obsolete in 6 months. So, while the userbees are focusing on their self interested micro-strategies, the people that predate upon them with the new world view will push for laws, taxes, fees, and regulations that will hobble the workerbees into greater servitude to the financial bundlers. This means that 2012 may be the year that the IRA's are assaulted by the paperboys as govies stay busy trying to make a dollar out of 25 cents. Continued pandering of feel good apps and convenience/comfort market items will sap descretionary income from the middle class but at the same time, savings account balances will rise among the workers. Cannibal type activity as see in the fall of MF will become the norm instead of the headliner. Protect yourself, this ain't your fathers Oldsmobile. I greatly appreciate the links and economic news items and discussions that are posted here, thanks to all that contribute.

    Coins
    Coins are being melted at greater intensity. Ninety percent coinage is headed off into bars and commem gold is going to the refiners. Meanwhile there are modern mint issue finds that equal or best the old standbys such as the buff fractional set and the deep dish age's and there are others. There are still modern issues that make a good mark for themselves. The rarities seem to stay high or go higher while the comman stuff is still...common or worse yet, melted. The flipper stuff is...well, made for flippers. I'm looking for Walkers to be more sought after and as more are melted, they will be more sought out and likely the higher grades will become more expensive and the gray sheet will rule this arena but I'm look for activity here. The fractional age's seem like a good place to store raw wealth but they are really not numismatic, just well recognized gold that is very liquid and coins none the less. Coin flips conveniently hold 5-1/10 oz age's very nicely and they look cool too, specially when you have a few of them and spreading out a couple of rolls of walkers on the table will get interest from anybody, coin nerd or not. Got CASH?

    Observation
    A politically interesting note was a recent news item that talked about home terrrorism. It profiled people that hold cash, physical gold or firearms as they should be identified as potential security problems. Interesting divergance from the postgreatdepression strategy of not holding debt and saving cash with physical assets. Also an interesting departure from protecting your family and posessions with personal weapons, something we were encouraged to do at one time. The nice thing about numismatic coins is that they are considered to be just a hobby and not necessarily viewed as a threat to anything except their owners wallets. Life is good.

    It has been quite a pleasure to read and contribute, for what it's worth, to this thread. Here's best wishes for a successful run at 2012 and for prosperity to all that visit here. It seems very appropriate to start a continuation thread now because '12 is going to be one for the books. Happy New Year.
  • Very well said, and thought out, mhammerman! The only thing I would add as a precaution is to watch for failed paper debt auctions this year.

    We have yet to enter a true hyper inflationary stage both here and in Europe. If debt auctions go unsold then Volker's plane to sell debt rather than print cash will begin to crumble, and PM prices and other hard assets will begin to see substantial rises.
  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,302 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It profiled people that hold cash, physical gold or firearms as they should be identified as potential security problems.

    That, combined with the new law that allows indefinite detention without a trial or charges being brought - is a major problem, for everyone.
    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • mrearlygoldmrearlygold Posts: 17,858 ✭✭✭
    Breaking News 12-30-11 -Gold is at a 65 week moving average marker.



    Gold is at a 65 week moving average marker



  • 57loaded57loaded Posts: 4,967 ✭✭✭
    more from Martin Armstrong.
    i find him interesting

    Gold and Reversals
  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I find Armstrong interesting as well....but not infallible. With so many "top" analysts calling for vastly different outcomes utilizing different methods, one has
    to finally consider just tossing all of them into a big pile. Better to just buy PMs on deep dips when everyone hates them. With PMs running up for 3 yrs all
    the analysts were mostly right. Now it's time to separate the men from the boys. Both sides can't be right.

    And Armstrong is not the only long term gold bull who is short term bearish. That just shows he doesn't bother to read anyone else's stuff. I'd say the vast
    majority of the gold analysts are currently short term bears and long term bulls. Armstrong has plenty of company.

    roadrunner
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • 57loaded57loaded Posts: 4,967 ✭✭✭
    RR you are VERY interesting!image
  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,302 ✭✭✭✭✭
    MA didn't mention anything this time about sovereign default risk. He has in the past, I think. He used to track international money flows, and I would be surprised if he stopped doing that. I wonder why he didn't touch on some of those factors as they also relate to gold.

    I'd put roadrunner up against practically any analyst I happen to read, *almost* on par with Sinclair.image
    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • 57loaded57loaded Posts: 4,967 ✭✭✭
    i think MA was focusing more "micro" than "macro" with this short message.

    hasn't Sinclair abandoned the strong Euro / weak dollar / $2300 gold?

    it seemed that was his mantra a few years backimage
  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,302 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Sinclair is onto a very high number for gold now.
    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • 1jester1jester Posts: 8,638 ✭✭✭
    Yes, Sinclair has been constantly repeating lately that gold is an imminent shoe-in for $2000, well into the $2000s, and (I think it's even Armstrong's number) of $4500. So he has stayed the course, and I'm sure he will. And I'm equally certain he'll be proven right, and not too long from now.

    imageimageimage
    .....GOD
    image

    "Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you." -Luke 11:9

    "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might." -Deut. 6:4-5

    "For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; He will save us." -Isaiah 33:22
  • 57loaded57loaded Posts: 4,967 ✭✭✭
    and Alf Fields

    MA wrote a pretty convincing (to me) article about gold - he felt it a commodity, nothing more or less and he was pretty adament about gold does not = money

    no one has the answer "how high" or timing "when", especially myselfimage

  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I've listened to Jim's last 2 interviews during this past week. He's stating that for 2012 gold should be in a range of $1700-$2100. I don't see anything that says he
    thinks it's going to the moon. He did say that the bottom is now in. In the longer term he has said he agrees with Alf Fields and others who see $4500 or higher. And
    he multiple times he's said that gold will reach a number that will balance a % of our sovereign debt. That number has increased from $1250 a number of years ago to
    $7500 about a year ago. The current number is around $12,000. Armstrong sees this PM bull market peaking in the 2016-2021 period.

    $1650-$1764 are Sinclair's current short term range before transitioning into that larger range above. Based on his superb calls this year, especially gold's summer bull run,
    I wouldn't bet against him. As this market has gotten more volatile, his calls have only gotten better. He does forecast a much weaker dollar down the road. It hasn't come
    in the original time frame he predicted. Technically, if the nation's whose currencies make up the USDX all devalue perfectly with the dollar, the index will remain constant....
    while all those currencies depreciate against gold. The published number could stay in the .80 range forever....while the FRN heads to worthlessness. But I suspect we'll see
    USDX in the 0.52 to .62 range that JS predicted. Still, it's a false target not anchored to anything real. The real anchors to judge the USDX/dollar are tangible assets.

    Gold may not be technical money....but gold ultimately shadows the debt. Gold = Debt.


    2012 - The Year of Living Dangerously

    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,549 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Derivative's history & summary

    This is one of the best and simplistic reads on otc derivatives that I've seen done. Most importantly, Rob Kirby discusses how those
    $275 TRILL in US bank held interest rate contracts affect the yield curve, bond demand, and US dollar pricing. It's more than coincidence
    that Pimco's dumping of all their treasuries in early 2011 was effectively neutralized by Morgan Stanley adding $14 TRILL in otc contracts.
    For anyone not knowing a thing about D's, this is a good 10-15 min read to get you up to speed. Even more interesting is that over half of
    the world's otc derivatives are denominated in Euros.
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,549 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Comments from my favorite economists


    While I subscribe to their thinking 100%, I also view the current economic situation to be one where individuals have a unique opportunity to differentiate themselves from the rest of the pack and prosper immensely when the economy improves. Do not fall victim to irrational discouragement.
    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,302 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Timing is everything, Dave. Timing is everything.image
    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • RR - thanks for the link. I'll read tonight when there's more time. Martin Armstrong has got 2 recent pieces, yesterday and today concerning Judge Radcoff sp? and the SEC. Those writings gave me a better understanding of otc der. also. His main point is to vote with your money. In other words, we know about the crimes/fraud/theft, but no one gets prison time, depositors get screwed out of THEIR money. Our financial industry does not adhere to the rule of law and any chage will be slow in coming, if at all.

    Everyone needs to protect their wealth/assets now.image
  • HigashiyamaHigashiyama Posts: 2,139 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Cohodk -- that's an amazing summary of the current situation, and is a bit scary because it is so level headed and "mainstream"

    If I were to summarize the brief report in a single sentence it would be something like "you can't spend your way out of a recession that is rooted in excessive debt".

    I also agree with your comment on "irrational discouragement". There are incredibly innovative people and companies out there; the "real economy" may well move forward in spite of a likely decade or more of awkward finance.
    Higashiyama
  • mhammermanmhammerman Posts: 3,769 ✭✭✭
    Thanks, rr and cohodk. Read both articles and enjoyed the read.


  • << <i>Comments from my favorite economists


    While I subscribe to their thinking 100%, I also view the current economic situation to be one where individuals have a unique opportunity to differentiate themselves from the rest of the pack and prosper immensely when the economy improves. Do not fall victim to irrational discouragement. >>



    Hoisington, On the Money. I've followed their work for over 10 years now. Have you read Dr. Lacy Hunts " A Time to be Rich" read it years ago. Still a very good book.
    NumbersUsa, FairUs, Alipac, CapsWeb, and TeamAmericaPac

  • ECRI's WLI dropped again for the second week now at -8.4 They still haven't reversed their recession call. They have a lot riding on that call, reputation wise.
    NumbersUsa, FairUs, Alipac, CapsWeb, and TeamAmericaPac
  • cladkingcladking Posts: 28,305 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Derivative's history & summary

    This is one of the best and simplistic reads on otc derivatives that I've seen done. Most importantly, Rob Kirby discusses how those
    $275 TRILL in US bank held interest rate contracts affect the yield curve, bond demand, and US dollar pricing. It's more than coincidence
    that Pimco's dumping of all their treasuries in early 2011 was effectively neutralized by Morgan Stanley adding $14 TRILL in otc contracts.
    For anyone not knowing a thing about D's, this is a good 10-15 min read to get you up to speed. Even more interesting is that over half of
    the world's otc derivatives are denominated in Euros. >>



    Ms. Barnhardt states on her blog,

    “It is absolutely amazing to me, and frankly awful, that these interviews I do are so popular. Most interviews or radio programs I do wind up being the most popular (or top-three) for their respective program or host. And we talked about my "Going Galt" letter being #6 for ZeroHedge yesterday. Don't think for a second that I relish in any of this. The truth is, I find it very, very disturbing, as should all of you, that I, relatively insignificant me, am apparently one of the only people in Western Civilization who has the stones to simply state the OBVIOUS OBJECTIVE TRUTH. I am a minor cultural phenomenon because I basically say that one plus one equals two, and I can say it clearly and directly without a bunch of "uhs" and "ums" and "you knows".

    Really? So all a person need do in this culture to be some sort of a hero is be able to string three articulate sentences together which state the obvious? God help us.

    I have many detractors who say, "Who the hell is this chick and why the hell do we care what she says?" Yep. I'm right there with you. Where are the billion-dollar fund managers (excepting perhaps Kyle Bass)? Where are the captains and titans of industry? Where are the so-called "leaders"? WHERE IS THE CLERGY??? I'm cynical, but SURELY there must be SOMEONE ELSE who has a brain in their head and a pair in the bag who can speak proper English above a mumble besides me. Anyone? Anyone? My 15 minutes are surely winding down. Someone else is going to have to step up here.”

    I don't think anyone realizes just how morally and rationally bankrupt things have
    become in the modern world. Today everything is a superstition founded on the
    politically correct attitude or belief of the day. All true science is now geared to only
    military application and even it is founded not on experiment so much as expediency.
    Everyday there is more superstition and more belief in the omnipotence of man and/
    or God. Truth has become as subjective as the words used to express it. People ac-
    cept whatever is presented to them whether it's ideas, culture, or products.

    Anyone telling obvious truths is either shouted down or shouted at like something
    out of the Invasion of the Body Snatchers. Sometimes people just stop and stare.

    There is grave question in my mind how long the world can function with everyone
    letting someone else do his thinking or just accepting dogma rather than engaging
    in reason. It is not getting better but progressively worse. Everyone's a specialist
    and is focused on his own little piece of reality. Most people just don't see the pro-
    blem because they just aren't looking.
    Tempus fugit.
  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,549 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I warned about the bubble in Aussie real estate over a year ago. A home ownership rate of 70% and an average price of $327,000 pretty much assures disaster. Australia needs A LOT of rich immigrants--now.

    Interest rates in Australia should tumble in the next year. The Aussie dollar may follow suit.


    The quest to own rather than rent has contributed to surging household debt, which, as a proportion of disposable income, tripled over the past 20 years to 150.8 percent in the quarter ended Sept. 30, according to central bank data. That compares with 133 percent in the U.S. at the height of the subprime- mortgage boom
    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • WingsruleWingsrule Posts: 2,977 ✭✭✭✭
    Interesting how they check with the owner before the gavel falls.


  • << <i>I warned about the bubble in Aussie real estate over a year ago. A home ownership rate of 70% and an average price of $327,000 pretty much assures disaster. Australia needs A LOT of rich immigrants--now.

    Interest rates in Australia should tumble in the next year. The Aussie dollar may follow suit.


    The quest to own rather than rent has contributed to surging household debt, which, as a proportion of disposable income, tripled over the past 20 years to 150.8 percent in the quarter ended Sept. 30, according to central bank data. That compares with 133 percent in the U.S. at the height of the subprime- mortgage boom >>



    So 3-4 years from now would be a good time to make my move to New Zealand?
    NumbersUsa, FairUs, Alipac, CapsWeb, and TeamAmericaPac
  • JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 22,847 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I warned about the bubble in Aussie real estate over a year ago. A home ownership rate of 70% and an average price of $327,000 pretty much assures disaster. Australia needs A LOT of rich immigrants--now.

    Interest rates in Australia should tumble in the next year. The Aussie dollar may follow suit.

    The quest to own rather than rent has contributed to surging household debt, which, as a proportion of disposable income, tripled over the past 20 years to 150.8 percent in the quarter ended Sept. 30, according to central bank data. That compares with 133 percent in the U.S. at the height of the subprime- mortgage boom >>



    Yes, but you also said (gloating I might addimage) that when the Aussie dollar dipped down to .94 that it would never see parity with the dollar again. It zoomed past parity and is knocking on 1.05 and it's within 5% of it's all time high against the dollar. I think it pulls back a little here before it takes out it's all time high against the dollar. I will be taking a few Aussie chips off the table but in general I think it's currency is strong like bull. I'm just over committed in this currency.

    FYI- Copper has been on fire the past two weeks. It ran into some heavy resistance today in the 200. MJ

    copper
    Walker Proof Digital Album
    Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
  • ProofCollectionProofCollection Posts: 5,317 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>So 3-4 years from now would be a good time to make my move to New Zealand? >>


    From what perspective? You don't have to buy a house right or convert your cash, although you will find things to be pricey.
  • Last sentence from an article by John Hussman 1/16/12



    << <i>At present, the data strongly implies recession risk, though with less than 100% certainty. The problem is that with overvalued, overbought, overbullish market conditions, the loss implications for the market in the event of a blindside recession are far more hostile than the possible gains in the event of a recovery that is already anticipated. >>

    NumbersUsa, FairUs, Alipac, CapsWeb, and TeamAmericaPac
  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,549 ✭✭✭✭✭
    that when the Aussie dollar dipped down to .94 that it would never see parity with the dollar again

    I never say never.image

    Will be time to short it about another month.

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
    FYI- Copper has been on fire the past two weeks. It ran into some heavy resistance today in the 200. MJ

    Copper's death has been reported a number of times the past few years. Keeps on ticking though. Wouldn't be surprised if it eventually heads to double digits in the
    next 5-10 yrs.

    Keeping the labor participation rate low is one of the keys to the presidential election

    The goals:

    Keep students in school - or send older adults back to school - make those loans cheap
    Get anyone over 50 with chronic illness on SS disability
    Get more people on early SS at age 62
    Keep inmates in jail
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 22,847 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>FYI- Copper has been on fire the past two weeks. It ran into some heavy resistance today in the 200. MJ

    Copper's death has been reported a number of times the past few years. Keeps on ticking though. Wouldn't be surprised if it eventually heads to double digits in the
    next 5-10 yrs.

    Keeping the labor participation rate low is one of the keys to the presidential election >>



    It's been going up without a lot of participation from China recently. Interesting. MJ
    Walker Proof Digital Album
    Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,111 ✭✭✭✭✭
    This will be the year that debt will be somewhat finally written off - keep an eye on Europe, they will force the bond gamblers to count their losses.

    The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,549 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>FYI- Copper has been on fire the past two weeks. It ran into some heavy resistance today in the 200. MJ

    Copper's death has been reported a number of times the past few years. Keeps on ticking though. Wouldn't be surprised if it eventually heads to double digits in the
    next 5-10 yrs.


    It's been going up without a lot of participation from China recently. Interesting. MJ >>






    Um, boys, copper is the same price it was SIX years ago. Just sayin'.imageimage




    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>FYI- Copper has been on fire the past two weeks. It ran into some heavy resistance today in the 200. MJ

    Copper's death has been reported a number of times the past few years. Keeps on ticking though. Wouldn't be surprised if it eventually heads to double digits in the
    next 5-10 yrs.

    It's been going up without a lot of participation from China recently. Interesting. MJ >>



    Um, boys, copper is the same price it was SIX years ago. Just sayin'.imageimage >>



    An even longer consolidation is only more bullish when it does pop. One can call it a 5-6 yr reverse H&S or a 3-4 yr cup w/handle. I know which direction I would bet on based
    on QE to infinity....or at least to $1.1 Quad.

    I didn't realize that the same BS in the BLS CPI is also used in the GDP. According to Mish approx 35% of GDP is hogwash due to hedonics and imputations. Who would have
    thought that all homeowners are running a business paying rent to themselves, which then gets rolled into GDP. Checking accts are also added as part of GDP. Huh?
    Willy takes aim at SLV, GDP, 8-10 MILL forecloseable homes hidden in the "shadow" banking inventory, Greek Debt vs. shipping disasters, as well as other topics this week.

    Willy rides again
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • mhammermanmhammerman Posts: 3,769 ✭✭✭
    Thanks RR.
  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,549 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Roadrunner,

    I dont doubt that copper can trade to $10. But in the last 6 years, 15 million Americans have died. I sure hope none of them were betting on higher copper prices.


    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,549 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Driving home yesterday I heard this song from my college days. It reminded me that no matter how much we think this time is different, we need to ask "is it really?" This song is over 20 years old. Same problems, interests, conflicts, just the names are changed...


    Billy Joel - We Didn't Start The Fire 1989


    Harry Truman, Doris Day, Red China, Johnnie Ray
    South Pacific, Walter Winchell, Joe DiMaggio

    Joe McCarthy, Richard Nixon, Studebaker, television
    North Korea, South Korea, Marilyn Monroe

    Rosenbergs, H-bomb, Sugar Ray, Panmunjom
    Brando, "The King and I" and "The Catcher in the Rye"

    Eisenhower, vaccine, England's got a new queen
    Marciano, Liberace, Santayana goodbye

    CHORUS
    We didn't start the fire
    It was always burning
    Since the world's been turning
    We didn't start the fire
    No we didn't light it
    But we tried to fight it

    Joseph Stalin, Malenkov, Nasser aand Prokofiev
    Rockefeller, Campanella, Communist Bloc

    Roy hn, Juan Peron, Toscanini, dacron
    Dien Bien Phu falls, "Rock Around the Clock"

    Einstein, James Dean, Brooklyn's got a winning team
    Davy Crockett, Peter Pan, Elvis Presley, Disneyland

    Bardot, Budapest, Alabama, Krushchev
    Princess Grace, "Peyton Place", trouble in the Suez

    CHORUS

    Little Rock, Pasternak, Mickey Mantle, Kerouac
    Sputnik, Chou En-Lai, "Bridge on the River Kwai"

    Lebanon, Charlse de Gaulle, California baseball
    Starkweather, homicide, children of thalidomide

    Buddy Holly, "Ben Hur", space monkey, Mafia
    Hula hoops, Castro, Edsel is a no-go

    U-2, Syngman Rhee, payola and Kennedy
    Chubby Checker, "Psycho", Belgians in the Congo

    CHORUS

    Hemingway, Eichmann, "Stranger in a Strange Land"
    Dylan, Berlin, Bay of Pigs invasion

    "Lawrence of Arabia", British Beatlemania
    Ole Miss, John Glenn, Liston beats Patterson

    Pope Paul, Malcolm X, British politician sex
    JFK, blown away, what else do I have to say

    CHORUS

    Birth control, Ho Chi Minh, Richard Nixon back again
    Moonshot, Woodsto/ck/, Watergate, punk rock
    Begin, Reagan, Palestine, terror on the airline
    Ayatollah's in Iran, Russians in Afghanistan

    "Wheel of Fortune", Sally Ride, heavy metal, suicide
    Foreign debts, homeless vets, AIDS, crack, Bernie Goetz
    Hypodermics on the shores, China's under martial law
    Rock and roller cola wars, I can't take it anymore

    CHORUS

    We didn't start the fire
    But when we are gone
    Will it still burn on, and on, and on, and on...

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • ttownttown Posts: 4,472 ✭✭✭
    India to pay gold instead of dollars for Iranian oil. Oil and gold markets stunned
    DEBKAfile Exclusive Report January 23, 2012, 5:57 PM (GMT+02:00)

    India is the first buyer of Iranian oil to agree to pay for its purchases in gold instead of the US dollar, debkafile’s intelligence and Iranian sources report exclusively. Those sources expect China to follow suit. India and China take about one million barrels per day, or 40 percent of Iran’s total exports of 2.5 million bpd. Both are superpowers in terms of gold assets.

    By trading in gold, New Delhi and Beijing enable Tehran to bypass the upcoming freeze on its central bank’s assets and the oil embargo which the European Union’s foreign ministers agreed to impose Monday, Jan. 23. The EU currently buys around 20 percent of Iran’s oil exports.

    The vast sums involved in these transactions are expected, furthermore, to boost the price of gold and depress the value of the dollar on world markets.

    Iran’s second largest customer after China, India purchases around $12 billion a year’s worth of Iranian crude, or about 12 percent of its consumption. Delhi is to execute its transactions, according to our sources, through two state-owned banks: the Calcutta-based UCO Bank, whose board of directors is made up of Indian government and Reserve Bank of India representatives; and Halk Bankasi (Peoples Bank), Turkey’s seventh largest bank which is owned by the government.

    An Indian delegation visited Tehran last week to discuss payment options in view of the new sanctions. The two sides were reported to have agreed that payment for the oil purchased would be partly in yen and partly in rupees. The switch to gold was kept dark.
  • BaleyBaley Posts: 22,658 ✭✭✭✭✭
    We should counter by only accepting payment for American wheat and corn shipped to India in the form of Undocumented Enriched Uranium and the heads and hands of known terrorists.

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

  • JimDepotJimDepot Posts: 957 ✭✭


    << <i>We should counter by only accepting payment for American wheat and corn shipped to India in the form of Undocumented Enriched Uranium and the heads and hands of known terrorists. >>



    So we don't want to trade in dollars either?image
    image

  • pf70collectorpf70collector Posts: 6,503 ✭✭✭
    I wonder if the U.S. could put pressure on India. Maybe forbiding any American Company from doing business with them. I know India is watching out for its own interests and probably needs the oil desperately to come to these terms of paying in gold to Iran.
  • That’s right lets now mess with India. When will the U.S. ever figure out that messing around in other peoples affairs just causes us grief?
  • pf70collectorpf70collector Posts: 6,503 ✭✭✭
    Iran, i believe once they have nuclear weapons, are crazy enough to use them. They already stated they want to wipe out Israel off the face of the earth. Not so much the Iranian people but more so their leaders wish this. However, I believe Israel will strike first even before Iran will have such capabilities.
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