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Beware of Resealed Star Wars packs from this seller
Wabittwax
Posts: 1,984 ✭✭✭
I recently bought a box of Star Wars cards on Ebay.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1977-Topps-Star-Wars-Orange-Series-5-box-of-36-sealed-packs-/161271444018?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=C%2FKGcLjt64GHlXURxs%2BdICCrv7c%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc
I bought these with the intention of grading. As I was opening them, the condition was consistently horrible. I figured it was my bad luck but with this Ebay seller being a decent size PSA submitter, I figured it wouldn't hurt to question the box and see what he says. His response floored me. He admitted to resealing the packs when he didn't like the quality and told me to do the same to get my money from someone else. Here is the message exchange between us:
Dear captfisch,
Hello, I purchased this box from you and I appreciate the fast shipping. I'm kind of at a loss though about what to think of the transaction. After opening the box, every single card, I mean 100% of them are off center. I've been submitting to PSA for a long time and that was my intention with these cards. I've opened a ton of various boxes over the years including these and I know quality will vary but I've never seen a 100% off center box. After looking at your other items, I see that you probably submit a lot to PSA also. This leaves me questioning what all you knew about this box that you didn't open it yourself. Was it resealed? Did it come from an absolute garbage run of cards? Makes me wonder what was known by you ahead of time and questioning if me taking a decent size loss on this is legit.
Dear wabittwax,
Howdy, I paid well over $225 for that box, and if you've opened as many boxes as you say, you know what a box is worth after only 3 or 4 packs. I'm looking for a select few cards to grade from that series and I could tell there wasn't anything in there for me. I sealed those 4 packs up and took a loss myself when I sold it. You know it's a crapshoot buying these old boxes, and I've been bitten many times by the quality of their cards, but this box was just like any other I've bought. Nothing to suggest it was from anything but a normal case. I am sorry the quality was poor throughout the whole box, but I promise I just opened 4, the rest weren't worth the time. That's why I sold as sealed packs and not unopened as I had opened a few. I'd seal them up yourself, and sell the box for what you can get. Prices dropped on series 5 a bit, but you could probably make more than you paid.
Dear captfisch,
Hello, wow I can't believe that you just suggested that I seal the packs back up and rip off somebody else. You do know that is ethical and probably illegal to pass something off as new after you've opened it. I think I'll just return them to you for a refund.
I reported him to EBay's fraud department and they immediately sided in my favor while I was still on the phone with them. Here's his response after Ebay informed him of the decision:
Dear wabittwax,
Fine, you win. EVERYTHING better be in your return shipment or I will open a complaint on the destroyed value of the item.
Dear captfisch,
Sounds like you know this process well. I'm guessing you've ripped off other in the past? What you are doing if fraud, plain and simple. You know that when you advertise packs as "sealed" then people will bid as though they are unopened and then you throw your hands up like you've done nothing wrong when you get caught and play off this game of what words you used. You really should be in jail for this. I've reported you to EBay's fraud department which is how I immediately won the dispute because it was obvious to them also of this fraud. And since this crossed state borders, I'm hoping they get the FBI involved because at $200 per box times however many people you've already ripped off, it's enough to warrant jail time in my opinion. I will also be posting this transaction on various card message boards to warn other people not to buy from you and to keep their eyes open for your altered boxes floating around. Your box is being sent back tomorrow. Have a wonderful day
Dear wabittwax,
Fine, do what you think you have to, but whether you like it or not, 32 of those packs were as much a mystery to me as you. You are just pissed that you couldn't make a profit from the box. By your own admission, these cards were of uniform quality, and not some hodgepodge of 36 packs thrown together and passed off as a full factory box. Sorry the quality was not what you were looking for, but you damn well know that it happens. We know eBay always sides with the buyer, but I will file counter claim if EVERYTHING is not returned (per eBay rules). You have a nice day too.
So anyways I just wanted to inform everyone on here of this and to let you know there are many searched boxes floating around because this guy sells a lot of them.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1977-Topps-Star-Wars-Orange-Series-5-box-of-36-sealed-packs-/161271444018?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=C%2FKGcLjt64GHlXURxs%2BdICCrv7c%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc
I bought these with the intention of grading. As I was opening them, the condition was consistently horrible. I figured it was my bad luck but with this Ebay seller being a decent size PSA submitter, I figured it wouldn't hurt to question the box and see what he says. His response floored me. He admitted to resealing the packs when he didn't like the quality and told me to do the same to get my money from someone else. Here is the message exchange between us:
Dear captfisch,
Hello, I purchased this box from you and I appreciate the fast shipping. I'm kind of at a loss though about what to think of the transaction. After opening the box, every single card, I mean 100% of them are off center. I've been submitting to PSA for a long time and that was my intention with these cards. I've opened a ton of various boxes over the years including these and I know quality will vary but I've never seen a 100% off center box. After looking at your other items, I see that you probably submit a lot to PSA also. This leaves me questioning what all you knew about this box that you didn't open it yourself. Was it resealed? Did it come from an absolute garbage run of cards? Makes me wonder what was known by you ahead of time and questioning if me taking a decent size loss on this is legit.
Dear wabittwax,
Howdy, I paid well over $225 for that box, and if you've opened as many boxes as you say, you know what a box is worth after only 3 or 4 packs. I'm looking for a select few cards to grade from that series and I could tell there wasn't anything in there for me. I sealed those 4 packs up and took a loss myself when I sold it. You know it's a crapshoot buying these old boxes, and I've been bitten many times by the quality of their cards, but this box was just like any other I've bought. Nothing to suggest it was from anything but a normal case. I am sorry the quality was poor throughout the whole box, but I promise I just opened 4, the rest weren't worth the time. That's why I sold as sealed packs and not unopened as I had opened a few. I'd seal them up yourself, and sell the box for what you can get. Prices dropped on series 5 a bit, but you could probably make more than you paid.
Dear captfisch,
Hello, wow I can't believe that you just suggested that I seal the packs back up and rip off somebody else. You do know that is ethical and probably illegal to pass something off as new after you've opened it. I think I'll just return them to you for a refund.
I reported him to EBay's fraud department and they immediately sided in my favor while I was still on the phone with them. Here's his response after Ebay informed him of the decision:
Dear wabittwax,
Fine, you win. EVERYTHING better be in your return shipment or I will open a complaint on the destroyed value of the item.
Dear captfisch,
Sounds like you know this process well. I'm guessing you've ripped off other in the past? What you are doing if fraud, plain and simple. You know that when you advertise packs as "sealed" then people will bid as though they are unopened and then you throw your hands up like you've done nothing wrong when you get caught and play off this game of what words you used. You really should be in jail for this. I've reported you to EBay's fraud department which is how I immediately won the dispute because it was obvious to them also of this fraud. And since this crossed state borders, I'm hoping they get the FBI involved because at $200 per box times however many people you've already ripped off, it's enough to warrant jail time in my opinion. I will also be posting this transaction on various card message boards to warn other people not to buy from you and to keep their eyes open for your altered boxes floating around. Your box is being sent back tomorrow. Have a wonderful day
Dear wabittwax,
Fine, do what you think you have to, but whether you like it or not, 32 of those packs were as much a mystery to me as you. You are just pissed that you couldn't make a profit from the box. By your own admission, these cards were of uniform quality, and not some hodgepodge of 36 packs thrown together and passed off as a full factory box. Sorry the quality was not what you were looking for, but you damn well know that it happens. We know eBay always sides with the buyer, but I will file counter claim if EVERYTHING is not returned (per eBay rules). You have a nice day too.
So anyways I just wanted to inform everyone on here of this and to let you know there are many searched boxes floating around because this guy sells a lot of them.
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Comments
There's the link.
I can't believe he'd just admit to fraud like that. Dishonest and so ignorant/arrogant he thinks it's ok to do it.
Glad you got your money back, hopefully ebay shuts him down and the postal inspector gets involved.
Always looking for Topps Salesman Samples, pre '51 unopened packs, E90-2, E91a, N690 Kalamazoo Bats, and T204 Square Frame Ramly's
As to the box in question, after he returned the cards to me and I looked at them, I can see why he is upset. It is probably the worst box I have ever seen in terms of centering and cut. But Topps printed them, Topps cut them, and Topps packed them, not me. I didn't know how bad the box was, but everyone has opened bad boxes and I am sorry about that. The cards in that box aren't even worth building raw sets out of. I stand by everything I have sold and have had no other complaints about my boxes or raw sets. I know many may not agree or even believe me, but there it is.
Said my peace, let the spears fly.
My short response to all this is resealing is wrong.
My long response to all this, since you have somehow convinced yourself that what you are doing is some how ok ,is this:
Buying unopened packs/boxes is a lot like buying a lottery ticket. A lot of times you lose, but people keep playing and paying for the chance to hit it big. To pull a star or a low pop in high grade.
Yeah, yeah you said you only are looking for the cards you need. But the cards you need for your set are super low pops. Take series 5, like the box you sold. Lets take a few you need #266,283,299 & 308. There are no 10’s for any of those cards. In this market if you hit a 10 they could be worth $500+. You are removing the most valuable cards.
To go back to the lottery analogy, you have rigged the lottery. Removing the highest paying tickets.
And to put it another way. What if someone else working on a set of all 10’s that needs the same cards as you buys the box hoping the cards might be in there? You’ve all ready pulled them out. Is that fair to them?
The semantics of "sealed" versus "unopened" is almost hilarious.
Next time, just put in the auction that you opened 4 packs, didn't like what you saw and sealed them back up. What happens to the box price then? Exactly…
THAT'S the difference.
"Common sense is the best distributed commodity in the world, for every man is convinced that he is well supplied with it"
Eric
<< <i>First of all, I did offer him a refund. Second, I have NEVER sold a stripped down box. Every card and sticker in a box I sold started in that box. Every PSA 8, 9 or 10 worthy card or sticker stayed in the box. I am looking for very few cards anymore and I do not strip down a box to submit to PSA every gradable card in a box just because it is there. If I don't need the card, it stays. I have neither the time or money to submit cards I don't need and then try to resell them. I am not a collector to make money, I am only looking for the best cards that I need to submit. Feel free to check my eBay history, I never sell PSA 10 cards, because once I get a card I need, I don't submit them anymore. The only PSA cards I sell are my attempts to get that elusive 10 and came up short. Everyone knows that if packs are sold opened, it is because the gradable cards have been stripped out and I don't do that. Like most people, if I get cards from a box to submit I break down the rest of the box into raw sets or singles to sell. Feel free to check my history for that as well, I have sold many box fresh sets. I seal the few packs I open so someone else can have the fun of opening them and every card that was put there by Topps is still there. Just because I look at a card, I don't see how it logically changes its value or quality. If your argument is that you just want to be first, well, we just agree to disagree. No one else has complained about the quality of the boxes I sell and I do stand by them.
As to the box in question, after he returned the cards to me and I looked at them, I can see why he is upset. It is probably the worst box I have ever seen in terms of centering and cut. But Topps printed them, Topps cut them, and Topps packed them, not me. I didn't know how bad the box was, but everyone has opened bad boxes and I am sorry about that. The cards in that box aren't even worth building raw sets out of. I stand by everything I have sold and have had no other complaints about my boxes or raw sets. I know many may not agree or even believe me, but there it is.
Said my peace, let the spears fly. >>
Just had to quote this since it's maybe one of the more absurd things I've ever read on CU and wanted to capture it for posterity. Thanks captfisch.
<< <i>Resealing is wrong, plain and simple, unless you disclose that you've done it.
The semantics of "sealed" versus "unopened" is almost hilarious.
Next time, just put in the auction that you opened 4 packs, didn't like what you saw and sealed them back up. What happens to the box price then? Exactly…
THAT'S the difference. >>
Well said.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Doug
Liquidating my collection for the 3rd and final time. Time for others to enjoy what I have enjoyed over the last several decades. Money could be put to better use.
"All evil needs to triumph is for good men to do nothing."
Late 60's and early to mid 70's non-sports
<< <i>As to the box in question, after he returned the cards to me and I looked at them, I can see why he is upset. It is probably the worst box I have ever seen in terms of centering and cut. >>
And you somehow did NOT know this when you sold them even after you opened 5 packs yourself?
<< <i>I did buy the series 4 SW box from him. I PMed him to ask a few questions. Hopefully he will respond. >>
I was going to message you privately this morning if I didn't see you appear in the thread across the way. Hope everything checks out with the box you bought.
As for you, captfisch, you're a real piece of work. How often do you expend energy playing the semantics card to cover up the fact that you're an unscrupulous douchebag?
<< <i>
<< <i>I did buy the series 4 SW box from him. I PMed him to ask a few questions. Hopefully he will respond. >>
I was going to message you privately this morning if I didn't see you appear in the thread across the way. Hope everything checks out with the box you bought.
As for you, captfisch, you're a real piece of work. How often do you expend energy playing the semantics card to cover up the fact that you're an unscrupulous douchebag? >>
Thanks for all the heads up and support. Hopefully everything will work out right.
Doug
Liquidating my collection for the 3rd and final time. Time for others to enjoy what I have enjoyed over the last several decades. Money could be put to better use.
<< <i>First of all, I did offer him a refund. Second, I have NEVER sold a stripped down box. Every card and sticker in a box I sold started in that box. Every PSA 8, 9 or 10 worthy card or sticker stayed in the box. I am looking for very few cards anymore and I do not strip down a box to submit to PSA every gradable card in a box just because it is there. If I don't need the card, it stays. I have neither the time or money to submit cards I don't need and then try to resell them. I am not a collector to make money, I am only looking for the best cards that I need to submit. Feel free to check my eBay history, I never sell PSA 10 cards, because once I get a card I need, I don't submit them anymore. The only PSA cards I sell are my attempts to get that elusive 10 and came up short. Everyone knows that if packs are sold opened, it is because the gradable cards have been stripped out and I don't do that. Like most people, if I get cards from a box to submit I break down the rest of the box into raw sets or singles to sell. Feel free to check my history for that as well, I have sold many box fresh sets. I seal the few packs I open so someone else can have the fun of opening them and every card that was put there by Topps is still there. Just because I look at a card, I don't see how it logically changes its value or quality. If your argument is that you just want to be first, well, we just agree to disagree. No one else has complained about the quality of the boxes I sell and I do stand by them.
As to the box in question, after he returned the cards to me and I looked at them, I can see why he is upset. It is probably the worst box I have ever seen in terms of centering and cut. But Topps printed them, Topps cut them, and Topps packed them, not me. I didn't know how bad the box was, but everyone has opened bad boxes and I am sorry about that. The cards in that box aren't even worth building raw sets out of. I stand by everything I have sold and have had no other complaints about my boxes or raw sets. I know many may not agree or even believe me, but there it is.
Said my peace, let the spears fly. >>
Wow, you are absolutely delusional, and collectors like you are part of what ruins the hobby.
The only difference is that the 2nd grader understands they are trying to pull a fast one and doesn't truly believe their crap.
Collectable
<< <i>captfisch - you're a complete tool. Right now I have a bad case of food poisoning, and were there any justice in this world, I'd be allowed to open your duplicitous gullet and vomit into it. >>
Outstanding!
I'm still trying to figure out if I'm more shocked that the guy feels this is a normal sort of behavior, or if I'm more surprised that he posted this sort of incredible bullcrap on a website that's seen by a large percentage of his potential customers.
I'm going to be pondering that one for awhile. Still, since public shaming is about the only way to deal with these morons, shame away!
Caution: Another Star Wars Reference
Maybe he will redeem himself like Darth Vader did at the end of Return of the Jedi and then and only then he will become one witht he force and rejoin Yoda and Obi Wan.
<< <i>I PMed him to tell him that the box does look good on my shelf but that I paid "unopened money". I asked for a discount since the packs were opened and hopefully I can pay "sealed" money for the box. My other concern was that I bought Series 4 from Star Wars which containes the C3PO error card. I am thinking he was looking for that card and that my box doesn't contain it. Hopefully he will come though and redeem himself a bit. >>
I conducted a quick search on eBay just now, and lo and behold there is this. Upon scouring his feedback, not only he has sold a handful of others the past couple of months, but I can't tell you how many boxes I ran across that had "sealed" in the title. I'll be honest, I got a little sick to my stomach and had to stop.
captfisch, if you possess even a shred of dignity, you'll give 72skywalker his money back.
<< <i>Reply by captfisch (May-07-14 11:33):
Opened half packs, decide he can't make profit. Destroyed value! Sellers beware! >>
<< <i>Reply by captfisch (May-07-14 11:33):
Opened half packs, realized he was defrauded by a dishonest seller. Destroyed what little value was left for a raw lot of cards! Beware of buying "resealed" proiduct from me! >>
Fixed.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>After asking for some kind of resolution and seeing the link to his ebay listing of C3POs eror card I have not heard back from him yet. It is the weekend and maybe he is busy. I usually don't frequent the boards on weekends. (Mostly at work, is that wrong??) Hoping that is the case. >>
You won't hear from him. And if you do, it surely won't be for any type of resolution.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>If you truly thought what you were doing was not incredibly dishonest, you'd have mentioned the fact that you opened a few packs, saw that the cards were in poor condition, resealed them back up and decided to sell the box as is. Or you could have at the very least sold the remaining packs as a partial box. But such a disclosure would have limited your sale price and that is why you attempted to deceive the buyer. And now you attempt to justify that behavior. >>
Well said Grote15, I think this sums it up well.
My first response after reading this was to check & see if today was April 1st!
Also, his response reminds me of an episode of Criminal Minds when the perp, after being asked why he did this, says " When I walk down the street and see somebody with a smirk on their face, I want to bash their heads in. What I don't understand is why everybody doesn't feel this way?"
<< <i>After asking for some kind of resolution and seeing the link to his ebay listing of C3POs eror card I have not heard back from him yet. It is the weekend and maybe he is busy. I usually don't frequent the boards on weekends. (Mostly at work, is that wrong??) Hoping that is the case. >>
Man, I wish I had your faith in humanity. Well done, sir.
Original unopened boxes on eBay are much the same as "unsearched" rolls of coins on eBay. No one actually believes they're unsearched, and those that do learn very quickly.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
<< <i>Santa Claus isn't giving away unopened boxes with rare cards in them at discount prices on eBay.
Original unopened boxes on eBay are much the same as "unsearched" rolls of coins on eBay. No one actually believes they're unsearched, and those that do learn very quickly. >>
This is not entirely accurate. There are unopened and authentic boxes available from reputable sources. Sure there are dishonest sellers too and much of the raw product sold on ebay is questionable, but I've purchased many vintage unopened packs and boxes that were perfectly fine, too. It's shortsighted to summarily dismiss all unopened product simply based on a bad experience. In this case, the seller was exposed and the buyer made whole, fortunately. In all fairness to telephoto, though, rolls of coins are a different animal, altogether.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
If today I have the same issue. I will not thing twice to report the problem to eBay/PayPal.
<< <i>I've been playing this Ebay game for a long time and I've popped 10's after 10's with PSA from unopened boxes on Ebay so to say that every box is bad is just foolish. >>
Agree. Not matter the manufacturer or card series. It is very rare all the boxes have damage cards. I avoid old boxes because the Bubble Gum issue, but I opened different Superman Movie boxes for example Superman 2. Not all the boxes have off-center or damage cards.
There are some sellers (Steve hart is the current cream of the crop) who are beyond reproach and back their wares 100%. Woe to those who aren't as honest.
To clarify further - putting it in coin terms - this is akin to someone selling "mint sealed" 3-piece commem sets, except they've opened them, took out the $5 gold and substituted a nickel, sealing it all back up and selling it as "unsearched". Wonder how that would go over with telephoto1 on the receiver end.
<< <i>Resealing is wrong, plain and simple, unless you disclose that you've done it.
The semantics of "sealed" versus "unopened" is almost hilarious.
Next time, just put in the auction that you opened 4 packs, didn't like what you saw and sealed them back up. What happens to the box price then? Exactly…
THAT'S the difference. >>
This. It's kinda annoying me that this distinction is flying, soaring over telephoto1's head. As for captfisch, seeing that he's sociopathically dishonest, nothing surprises in his behavior.