Pete Rose

BLUEJAYWAY · March 16, 2015 1:34PM

ESPN stated on the crawl this evening that he has submitted a request to the new BB comm. to consider his reinstatement into BB.

DIMEMAN · March 16, 2015 3:18PM

He should be in the HOF no question about it!

CNote · March 16, 2015 3:21PM

<< He should be in the HOF no question about it! >>

So should Tony Romo

Estil · March 16, 2015 5:56PM

<< He should be in the HOF no question about it! >>

Not to throw cold water on the situation or anything but even if Pete does become eligible for the HOF (one way or the other) you know he still has to get 75% of the votes just like anyone else right? And if more than 25% of them still think Pete disgraced/dishonored the game and does not belong in what has traditionally been considered a shrine of honor, well, you can forget about it pal.

itzagoner · March 17, 2015 12:34AM

<< a shrine of honor >>

lol. as an example, this description fulfills that which recognizes the efforts and sacrifices made by the men and women who fought for our country and our freedom.

in Cooperstown, a building which helps to celebrate the achievements of great athletic competitors should allow Pete Rose to be recognized for being an incredibly talented baseball player.

to declare him worthy of honor would be misleading, considering how easily he sells himself.

perkdog · March 17, 2015 1:08AM

Im rooting for Pete Rose to get into the HOF

orioles93 · March 17, 2015 3:50AM

<< 

<< He should be in the HOF no question about it! >>

Not to throw cold water on the situation or anything but even if Pete does become eligible for the HOF (one way or the other) you know he still has to get 75% of the votes just like anyone else right? And if more than 25% of them still think Pete disgraced/dishonored the game and does not belong in what has traditionally been considered a shrine of honor, well, you can forget about it pal. >>

I dont think that he is doing this just because of the hall of fame. He probably wants reinstatement partially so that he can either coach, or be in baseball in some sort of way again.

JoeBanzai · March 17, 2015 6:11AM

He agreed to a lifetime ban. Too bad this guy can't be as good a person as he was a ballplayer.

Sorry Pete. My Father used to say "You can't have your cake and eat it too".

MCMLVTopps · March 18, 2015 8:22AM

No way does Pete get in...and rightfully so. He violated a clear cut rule...no gambling. He denied it forever, then finally fessed up. If he gets in, might as well let Sosa, McGuire and all the other "users" get in. It would set a bad precedent IMO.

Dear Pete:
YOU DO THE CRIME...YOU DO THE TIME

I vote NAY

garnettstyle · March 18, 2015 10:26AM

Put him in already.

RoarIn84 · March 18, 2015 12:31PM

He was without question the hardest playing, most dedicated worker in his (or any) profession. I never saw ANY player attack ANY job with such ferociousness and passion as Pete Rose. He legged out every grounder and dove into every base like his life depended on it, like it was war. He was a living, breathing example of everything this game has ever been about. If he saw you slacking, he would pull you into the clubhouse by your ear and by the time he was done with you, you were spit-shining his cleats... He broke the law. It's like a life sentence for sleeping with a girl the day before her 18th birthday..... But law, none the less. He has long since paid for his crime.... Over a quarter century! He belongs enshrined in bronze. I first went to the HOF in 1988 to see Stargell get inducted. I refuse to return until Charlie Hustle gets his due!!

grote15 · March 18, 2015 12:39PM

There is a reason he VOLUNTARILY agreed to a lifetime ban. He did so to stop Dowd from investigating him further. Had Dowd done so, even uglier revelations would have come to light, including the likelihood that Rose not only bet on the Reds to win, but he also bet against them, too.

To all the Rose advocates~baseball shouldn't even consider reinstating Rose until Shoeless Joe Jackson is reinstated before him.

Report: Dowd says Rose 'probably' bet against team

MCMLVTopps · March 18, 2015 10:00PM

I'll go with the Shoeless Joe comments of Grote15 and his comments about Rose.

Pete may have played hardball, but his egotistical persona is one of "I can do whatever I want"...think scumbag!! He agreed to the lifetime ban, so man up and suck it up...oh, BTW Pete your "in the hallway" commercial was beyond pathetic.

dallasactuary · March 18, 2015 11:15PM

Being elected to the HOF is, and is supposed to be, an honor. Pete Rose is not an honorable man, and to honor him in this way would taint the HOF as well as the honor bestowed on all of its other members. I not only vote no, I vote hell no.

bronco2078 · March 18, 2015 11:26PM

Pete Rose the player should be in the HOF . Pete Rose the man should not , that guy sucks. We should be done talking about it by this point. As was pointed out above, he agreed to a lifetime ban he needs to shut up now. He isn't relevant anymore and truthfully baseball itself is losing its relevance as well. What could possibly be gained by reinstating him?

Estil · March 19, 2015 1:41AM

<< There is a reason he VOLUNTARILY agreed to a lifetime ban. He did so to stop Dowd from investigating him further. Had Dowd done so, even uglier revelations would have come to light, including the likelihood that Rose not only bet on the Reds to win, but he also bet against them, too.

To all the Rose advocates~baseball shouldn't even consider reinstating Rose until Shoeless Joe Jackson is reinstated before him. >>

That's one thing I don't get...a lifetime ban I would think would be just that, for that player's lifetime. So once Joe passed away, shouldn't he then become eligible? Same with Pete, wouldn't it stand to reason once its his time to go...?

bronco2078 · March 19, 2015 2:46AM

<< 

<< There is a reason he VOLUNTARILY agreed to a lifetime ban. He did so to stop Dowd from investigating him further. Had Dowd done so, even uglier revelations would have come to light, including the likelihood that Rose not only bet on the Reds to win, but he also bet against them, too.

To all the Rose advocates~baseball shouldn't even consider reinstating Rose until Shoeless Joe Jackson is reinstated before him. >>

That's one thing I don't get...a lifetime ban I would think would be just that, for that player's lifetime. So once Joe passed away, shouldn't he then become eligible? Same with Pete, wouldn't it stand to reason once its his time to go...? >>

Your logic is airtight. It seems like you could do Pete a "favor" and "help" him into the hall

knowwhatImean?

RoarIn84 · March 19, 2015 11:27AM

I'll agree that Shoeless Joe should be in before Rose. I don't, and possibly nobody does, fully know his true involvement in the scandal. His stats tell he had a pretty impressive series tho......

Lotta scumbags in the hall already..... It's cool. Everyone knows nothing affected Rose's ability to perform what he accomplished other than his own drive, determination and talent. Plus, his cards are still sold at elite HOF prices. He gets his respect....

aconte · March 20, 2015 1:27AM

Pete should be in. No question about it.

He was one of the best players of all time.

aconte

Brick · March 20, 2015 7:52AM

Pete should get in posthumously. Joe Jackson should be in.

DIMEMAN · March 20, 2015 10:37AM

All kinds of problems here.......I don't know where to begin.

First - Rose bet on his team not against. This was wrong and he should have lost his job, which he did. That should have been it. No way it should have affected his playing record.

Second - The comparison to Shoeless Joe Jackson is stupid. He was not as good as Rose.....Plus and this is "HUGE".....What Joe did was way way way worse.
How can you compare betting on your team (which means you will try your best to win) TO THROWING games and a WS!!!!! COME ON!!!!

The HOF is NOTHING without the ALL TIME HIT LEADER.......NOTHING!!!!!

grote15 · March 20, 2015 12:03PM

From the above linked article:

Dowd told the New York Post on Wednesday he thought it was "probably right" that Rose not only bet on Reds games but that he bet against the Reds during the mid-to-late-1980s when Rose managed Cincinnati.

Dowd also told the Post that Rose did not bet on the Reds whenever two pitchers, including Mario Soto, started, which "sent a message through the gambling community that the Reds can't win" on those days.

grote15 · March 20, 2015 12:12PM

<< There is a reason he VOLUNTARILY agreed to a lifetime ban. He did so to stop Dowd from investigating him further. Had Dowd done so, even uglier revelations would have come to light, including the likelihood that Rose not only bet on the Reds to win, but he also bet against them, too.

To all the Rose advocates~baseball shouldn't even consider reinstating Rose until Shoeless Joe Jackson is reinstated before him.

Report: Dowd says Rose 'probably' bet against team >>

Dimeman, read the article linked above from the one person other than Rose himself who knew more than anyone on what really transpired.

DIMEMAN · March 20, 2015 12:18PM

Grote - Just what did I "create" in my post?

I just love your "know it all" attitude!

grote15 · March 20, 2015 12:24PM

<< Grote - Just what did I "create" in my post?

I just love your "know it all" attitude! >>

You had stated that Rose bet only on the Reds to win as fact. In fact, Dowd had credible evidence that Rose bet against the Reds as well as on them. Read the article. Of course, Rose wants you to believe he only bet on his team to win~it makes his gambling a bit less egregious that way, but Rose has consistently LIED about his gambling for years and denied for 15 years ever even betting on baseball, yet we are to believe him over Dowd now? The "know it all" attituide was presented by you, not me, when you claim (erroneously) that there were "all kinds of problems here," when, in fact, there were not.

Secondly, for a guy trying to throw the World Series, Jackson certainly did a lousy job at it~he led BOTH teams in hitting during that Series. Furthermore, though it's a bit difficult to compare players across different eras (I'll defer to Dallasactuary for that task), I'd certianly rank Jackson's career stats above the compiler Rose. Of course, he broke the hits record~not too hard when you pencil yourself in the lineup every day as manager, and play for almost 30 years, LOL..

Personally, I like Rose, as a player, but imho he has done very little if anything to demonstrate that he has reformed his ways. He lied for years about betting on baseball, rudely upstaged the 2004 HOF induction ceremonies with the publication of his book of revelations on what just about everyone already knew anyway, and now makes a ton of money signing "I'm sorry I bet on baseball" on everything under the sun. Pete still doesn't get it.

DIMEMAN · March 20, 2015 12:36PM

>>>The "know it all" attituide was presented by you, not me, when you claim (erroneously) that there were "all kinds of problems here," when, in fact, there were not. <<<

Really?

I stated that he didn't bet against his team......until it is proven otherwise that is true. Why should we believe Dowd.

I stated that he was better than Jackson......that is true.

I stated that what Jackson did was worse than what Rose did....no contest here......true.

The only people who can say with a straight face that Rose should not be in the HOF.......are just Rose haters!

grote15 · March 20, 2015 12:38PM

Yes, why should we believe Dowd, and the evidence that he uncovered during his investigation of Rose, when he can take Pete at his word~it's not like Pete hasn't lied to us or anything over the years..

GONEBATS · March 21, 2015 12:27AM

For the HOF to be complete, the plaques of Joe Jackson and Pete Rose with proper acknowledgement of their misdeeds on those plaques. Please read eight men out and while it is true that Joe took the money, he did not throw the WS. Illiterate and playing for a SOB cheap owner. Read Ty Cobbs autobiography we he states , " I never bet on an American League game during my playing career "! Should we pull his plaque?

Craig

MCMLVTopps · March 21, 2015 2:04AM

Actually...I kinda like Grote15's "know it all attitude"...at least he provides backup to what he says, unlike others who just like to keep piling on the BS with mere conjecture. I suspect he has more "inside" baseball knowledge than most that post on these boards and has more info on Rose as well.

Rose is a scumbag who thinks he can get away with anything. He's not in the Hall for a reason...hmmmmm...like honesty, integrity, you know, the stuff that means something.

bronco2078 · March 21, 2015 2:27AM

Even if it could be proved he never bet against his own team. Its not okay to bet on your team to win the game if you are the manager . You will manage the game to win your bets . There is more to betting baseball than win or lose . What about prop bets? total runs , first team to score . As a manager he could certainly manipulate factors of a game to win a bet that doesn't cause the team to lose.

He bet on every single game for long stretches then he lied about it. Here is how lying works, if you are a proven liar , then nothing you ever say again can be taken at face value.

So if Pete said the sun rose in the east you still need to fact check it.

RoarIn84 · March 21, 2015 3:57AM

"Of course, he broke the hits record~not too hard when you pencil yourself in the lineup every day as manager, and play for almost 30 years, LOL..

Actually, as a player/mgr, he only played 217 out of 365 games managed.... Plus, he only played 24 seasons

garnettstyle · March 21, 2015 4:21AM

<< 

<< Grote - Just what did I "create" in my post?

I just love your "know it all" attitude! >>

You had stated that Rose bet only on the Reds to win as fact. In fact, Dowd had credible evidence that Rose bet against the Reds as well as on them. Read the article. Of course, Rose wants you to believe he only bet on his team to win~it makes his gambling a bit less egregious that way, but Rose has consistently LIED about his gambling for years and denied for 15 years ever even betting on baseball, yet we are to believe him over Dowd now? The "know it all" attituide was presented by you, not me, when you claim (erroneously) that there were "all kinds of problems here," when, in fact, there were not.

Secondly, for a guy trying to throw the World Series, Jackson certainly did a lousy job at it~he led BOTH teams in hitting during that Series. Furthermore, though it's a bit difficult to compare players across different eras (I'll defer to Dallasactuary for that task), I'd certianly rank Jackson's career stats above the compiler Rose. Of course, he broke the hits record~not too hard when you pencil yourself in the lineup every day as manager, and play for almost 30 years, LOL..

Personally, I like Rose, as a player, but imho he has done very little if anything to demonstrate that he has reformed his ways. He lied for years about betting on baseball, rudely upstaged the 2004 HOF induction ceremonies with the publication of his book of revelations on what just about everyone already knew anyway, and now makes a ton of money signing "I'm sorry I bet on baseball" on everything under the sun. Pete still doesn't get it. >>

Yet according to you, its ok if you're a racist and be in the hall. I would much rather see an admitted gambler in there, instead of a known racist.

grote15 · March 21, 2015 6:40AM

<< 

<< 

<< Grote - Just what did I "create" in my post?

I just love your "know it all" attitude! >>

You had stated that Rose bet only on the Reds to win as fact. In fact, Dowd had credible evidence that Rose bet against the Reds as well as on them. Read the article. Of course, Rose wants you to believe he only bet on his team to win~it makes his gambling a bit less egregious that way, but Rose has consistently LIED about his gambling for years and denied for 15 years ever even betting on baseball, yet we are to believe him over Dowd now? The "know it all" attituide was presented by you, not me, when you claim (erroneously) that there were "all kinds of problems here," when, in fact, there were not.

Secondly, for a guy trying to throw the World Series, Jackson certainly did a lousy job at it~he led BOTH teams in hitting during that Series. Furthermore, though it's a bit difficult to compare players across different eras (I'll defer to Dallasactuary for that task), I'd certianly rank Jackson's career stats above the compiler Rose. Of course, he broke the hits record~not too hard when you pencil yourself in the lineup every day as manager, and play for almost 30 years, LOL..

Personally, I like Rose, as a player, but imho he has done very little if anything to demonstrate that he has reformed his ways. He lied for years about betting on baseball, rudely upstaged the 2004 HOF induction ceremonies with the publication of his book of revelations on what just about everyone already knew anyway, and now makes a ton of money signing "I'm sorry I bet on baseball" on everything under the sun. Pete still doesn't get it. >>

Yet according to you, its ok if you're a racist and be in the hall. I would much rather see an admitted gambler in there, instead of a known racist. >>

Soundgard, your analogy has no relevance or basis in fact.

garnettstyle · March 21, 2015 12:38PM

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< Grote - Just what did I "create" in my post?

I just love your "know it all" attitude! >>

You had stated that Rose bet only on the Reds to win as fact. In fact, Dowd had credible evidence that Rose bet against the Reds as well as on them. Read the article. Of course, Rose wants you to believe he only bet on his team to win~it makes his gambling a bit less egregious that way, but Rose has consistently LIED about his gambling for years and denied for 15 years ever even betting on baseball, yet we are to believe him over Dowd now? The "know it all" attituide was presented by you, not me, when you claim (erroneously) that there were "all kinds of problems here," when, in fact, there were not.

Secondly, for a guy trying to throw the World Series, Jackson certainly did a lousy job at it~he led BOTH teams in hitting during that Series. Furthermore, though it's a bit difficult to compare players across different eras (I'll defer to Dallasactuary for that task), I'd certianly rank Jackson's career stats above the compiler Rose. Of course, he broke the hits record~not too hard when you pencil yourself in the lineup every day as manager, and play for almost 30 years, LOL..

Personally, I like Rose, as a player, but imho he has done very little if anything to demonstrate that he has reformed his ways. He lied for years about betting on baseball, rudely upstaged the 2004 HOF induction ceremonies with the publication of his book of revelations on what just about everyone already knew anyway, and now makes a ton of money signing "I'm sorry I bet on baseball" on everything under the sun. Pete still doesn't get it. >>

Yet according to you, its ok if you're a racist and be in the hall. I would much rather see an admitted gambler in there, instead of a known racist. >>

Soundgard, your analogy has no relevance or basis in fact. >>

Whats soundgard mean?

And nice dodge.

DIMEMAN · March 22, 2015 11:48PM

>>>Rose is a scumbag who thinks he can get away with anything. He's not in the Hall for a reason...hmmmmm...like honesty, integrity, you know, the stuff that means something.<<<

Actually the HOF is where the great players based on stats are put. It's not a social gathering. While it's nice to be nice it's not really a requirement to get in.

And why exactly is Rose a scumbag???? Does gambling make a person a scumbag?????

bronco2078 · March 23, 2015 2:14AM

<< >>>Rose is a scumbag who thinks he can get away with anything. He's not in the Hall for a reason...hmmmmm...like honesty, integrity, you know, the stuff that means something.<<<

Actually the HOF is where the great players based on stats are put. It's not a social gathering. While it's nice to be nice it's not really a requirement to get in.

And why exactly is Rose a scumbag???? Does gambling make a person a scumbag????? >>

Gambling on baseball games which he was managing and then lying about it makes him a scumbag exactly.

MCMLVTopps · March 23, 2015 5:18AM

DIMEMAN...It would help if you fact checked before you post garbage!

From the BBWAA rulebook...HALL OF FAME REQUIREMENTS

Para 5... "Voting shall be based upon the player's record, playing ability, INTEGRITY, SPORTSMANSHIP, CHARACTER and contributions to the team(s) on which he played.

From day one he denied any wrong doing, then had an ephiphany on 1-8-04 and admitted his guilt that he did in fact BET ON BASEBALL.

Furthermore, on 4-20-90, he was charged and convicted of filing false income tax returns. He got 5 months in Marion, IL and a $50k fine and 1,000 hours of community service...CHARACTER!!!

On 8-24-89 He accepted a permanent ban from baseball and agreed there was a factual reason for the ban.

Try not to shoot your mouth off without being able to back it up, it makes you like a fool !!

DIMEMAN · March 23, 2015 10:42AM

>>>Try not to shoot your mouth off without being able to back it up, it makes you like a fool !!<<<

Opinions are like you know what. And you certainly have yours!

Gambling.....big deal!

Income tax problems......big deal!

If everyone who has done these is a scumbag.......probably over half of us Americans are scumbags! Heck you have probably bet on some sporting event in your lifetime....and probably not been 100% honest in your tax returns!

His playing and skill as a player and what he did for his team as a player and the fact that he is the "ALL TIME HIT LEADER" is more than enough to get him in the HOF.

Like I said before......the HOF is about stats and playing ability.......not a goodie goodie contest!

Estil · March 23, 2015 12:22PM

<< DIMEMAN...It would help if you fact checked before you post garbage!

From the BBWAA rulebook...HALL OF FAME REQUIREMENTS

Para 5... "Voting shall be based upon the player's record, playing ability, INTEGRITY, SPORTSMANSHIP, CHARACTER and contributions to the team(s) on which he played.

From day one he denied any wrong doing, then had an ephiphany on 1-8-04 and admitted his guilt that he did in fact BET ON BASEBALL.

Furthermore, on 4-20-90, he was charged and convicted of filing false income tax returns. He got 5 months in Marion, IL and a $50k fine and 1,000 hours of community service...CHARACTER!!!

On 8-24-89 He accepted a permanent ban from baseball and agreed there was a factual reason for the ban.

Try not to shoot your mouth off without being able to back it up, it makes you like a fool !! >>

All the more reason why I have warn the pro-Pete side that even if someday he does get eligible for the HOF, him actually getting voted in is a whole different matter. I personally do think he should be in the HOF at some point but I don't have a HOF vote or anything so really my opinion doesn't count for a hill of beans.

JoeBanzai · March 23, 2015 2:25PM

<< Actually the HOF is where the great players based on stats are put. It's not a social gathering. While it's nice to be nice it's not really a requirement to get in. >>

Most inaccurate post of all time. I am thinking you post this kind of stuff to get a reaction out of people, just makes them think you are the most uninformed person on the boards.

Have a nice day.

mealeworm · March 28, 2015 10:55PM

mealeworm · March 28, 2015 11:13PM

Wow, there is a lot of bitterness in this thread.
I will jump in and give my .02.
I feel Pete should be in the HOF, and that putting him there would not harm or help the image of MLB or the so called HOF code of ethics.
Do people really care about how a man lived his life when they think about the HOF members? Heck no. They only care about how they played the game.
The fact is if you truly are looking at these athletes as roll models then shame on you. Maybe if more people were able to figure out the difference between the two there would be less worry about Pete the person opposed to the player.
AND
where is the cutoff here? Gambling?? Cheating on spouse?? domestic violence?? steroids? pills? coke?
The HOF is loaded with bad people and there will be many more with or without Pete
AND
Finally, I believe the time frame for Pete's induction has expired, meaning even if reinstated he would now have to go through the channel of the veteran's committee.
I am not 100% certain about the last statement, but I am sure that if wrong someone will point it out.

DIMEMAN · March 29, 2015 12:19AM

Well said mealeworm - this is what I have been saying all along!

Rose the player.....the ALL-Time hits leader.....should be in the HOF.....PERIOD!!!

Skin2 · March 29, 2015 4:49AM

<< 

From the BBWAA rulebook...HALL OF FAME REQUIREMENTS

Para 5... "Voting shall be based upon the player's record, playing ability, INTEGRITY, SPORTSMANSHIP, CHARACTER and contributions to the team(s) on which he played.
>>

That is correct, however, there really haven't been any players that have been enshrined due to their character, integrity, or sportsmanship. Typically, the mistakes that got in were due to ignorant or faulty statistical measurements.

Dimeman is actually correct in that baseball players have historically gotten in based on their stats(or "player's record, playing ability, and contributions to the teams on which he played), and not their character, integrity, or sportsmanship.

They have however recently been excluded from the Hall based on their character, etc..but that is because of steroids and how they directly affected and inflated their stats...so it goes back to players only being voted in based on stats.

If Integrity, sportsmanship, or character were truly criteria that anyone actually used, then Dale Murphy would have been a first ballot HOFer; and there would be several players in the Hall with horrendous stats and immortal character traits.

mlbfan2 · March 29, 2015 8:36AM

<< That is correct, however, there really haven't been any players that have been enshrined due to their character, integrity, or sportsmanship. >>

We have no way of knowing that. There certainly may have been a player with high character/integrity/sportsmanship that may not have otherwise gotten in.

BLUEJAYWAY · March 29, 2015 11:00AM

Sometimes I wonder if an added reason for his exclusion is based on using his situation as an example to send a message. An example to all would be future Hall candidates that this type of behaviour (gambling) will not be tolerated, ever, and if you do this this will be the resulting punishment, regardless of your on field achievements. This same criteria may be applied to the steroid users of the future, providing the Hall keeps out all the past users as well, use and you are barred from consideration. Then they will have made examples out of them as well and send a message. I wonder just how much the "new school" players really care about the Hall anyway, given the mega bucks a player who might put up the numbers to get in can make in a career. Did getting into the Hall mean more to the previous generation than the current one? And some questions-Do the current HOFers judge the likes of their fellow HOFers who have been attributed with drinking, racism, and all of the other many charcater flaws? Does it not bother them to be in a Hall of Fame with many of them who lack certain aspects of good character? Why would you want to be a member of a group that had these rogues within it's membership. Can you seperate these factions into groups of the sinners and saints?

Estil · March 29, 2015 1:18PM

<< 

<< That is correct, however, there really haven't been any players that have been enshrined due to their character, integrity, or sportsmanship. >>

We have no way of knowing that. There certainly may have been a player with high character/integrity/sportsmanship that may not have otherwise gotten in. >>

How about Kirby Puckett (he had a very reasonable HOF case, but this is about him getting in on the first ballot)? I was VERY surprised at the time when got in the HOF on the first ballot (Dave Winfield doing so that year we all saw coming), but I think that may have helped his case (especially him choosing not to leave the Twins when he tested the free agency waters), along with the fact that he not only won two championships in five years, but did so in among the smallest market teams possible.

Skin2 · March 30, 2015 12:20AM

I agree on Joe Jackson being worthy.

While it is not possible to know how much a voter may have taken character into account when voting a guy like Puckett in(though he more or less go the vote due to post season performance and a non-baseball injury cutting his career short), it is possible to see that there hasn't been anybody voted in with putrid stats and immortal character traits. If character traits were truly looked at with any importance, then we should see some guys with truly immortal character traits in the HOF, despite being wretched players.

...and Dale Murphy would have been in there long ago.

We do however still see guys with wretched character traits being voted into the HOF, mainly Cobb. Even Gaylord Perry(he cheated often).

JoeBanzai · March 30, 2015 6:45AM

<< We do however still see guys with wretched character traits being voted into the HOF, mainly Cobb. Even Gaylord Perry(he cheated often). >>

Cobb was certainly a racist (and more) but as far as the race aspect is concerned, racism was legal and generally accepted at the time, so complaining about him being in the Hall is a rather moot point.

Perry was certainly a cheater, but his issue was not taken too seriously by MLB or they would have punished him accordingly.

While in hindsight both of these guys fall short in the character department, their transgressions were not taken too seriously during their careers.

Getting back to Rose, his problems were discovered before he could be inducted, and that's the difference.

Does anyone really think Ty Cobb should be removed from the H.O.F.?

sparky64 · March 30, 2015 9:30AM

If, say he was to be reinstated, I doubt he'd be elected to the HOF by today's voters.

By showing up and promoting books, autograph sessions, etc., during induction week, he really burned bridges.

dallasactuary · March 31, 2015 12:03AM

<< We do however still see guys with wretched character traits being voted into the HOF, mainly Cobb. Even Gaylord Perry(he cheated often). >>

"Character" isn't defined by the HOF, so writers can interpret it as they see fit. But the standard that appears always to have applied is whether the player brought shame or discredit to the sport itself. Betting on games in which you are a participant was, is, and always shall be the #1 way to do that, and nobody known to have done that has been or ever will be inducted into the HOF. And MLB would be foolish to ever allow it to happen. Somehow professional wrestling is popular even though all of the matches are fixed, but I don't think anyone confuses professional wrestling with a real sport. Real sports don't allow players and managers to bet on games, and they kick out anyone caught doing it. Between honoring a dishonorable man and remaining a real sport, MLB has a very easy decision with regard to Rose.

Taking steroids appears to have settled in right next to betting as the other sure way to discredit the game, and while it's too early to know if any known steroid user will ever be inducted into the HOF, it looks like it will be a very long time. I hope it's forever.

But being a racist, while it certainly ought to have brought shame to Cobb, didn't bring shame to the game itself. You can argue that excluding black players for nearly 100 years did, but that's not a burden Cobb, or any of the thousands like him who played, has to carry. Gaylord Perry is in a unique situation. Had it been widely known throughout his career that he was cheating things might have worked out differently, but by the time it was widely talked about, and certainly by the time he got caught red-handed, he was an old man, a fan favorite, and the ways he cheated elicited more laughter than condemnation. The game of baseball, on balance, probably benefited more from Perry's cheating than it was harmed, so keeping him out of the HOF was out of the question.

The only player I can think of who brought no shame to the game itself, but who has been excluded from the HOF for "character" reasons is Richie Allen. I'm OK with leaving Allen out of the HOF, but I'd certainly vote him in long before I'd vote for Rose or any of the steroid users.

Pete Rose

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