March Madness 2015 - Kentucky or the field?

larryallen73 · March 15, 2015 4:30AM

It feels like Tiger in his prime. If given the choice I think more people would pick Kentucky than the field. Curious what y'all think!?

orioles93 · March 15, 2015 6:03AM

I would take the field over Kentucky. They did not play Duke, Virginia, Villanova, or Wisconsin this season and I think all 4 of those teams would give Kentucky a hard time if played in the tournament.

Edit: Plus Kentucky's strength of schedule is 57th in the country. They also played against the SEC which outside of Kentucky and Arkansas, is not very good, LSU is ok at best.

In my opinion, going undefeated was a great accomplishment, but I do not think it will translate into a NCAA tournament win once they start playing better teams.

Estil · March 15, 2015 6:27AM

I dunno, if Virgina and the Duke boys were having so much trouble in their conference tournament semis, what do they think we're gonna be like?

We are NOT gonna be the 2007 Patriots.

Dave99B · March 15, 2015 7:24AM

I would also take the field, vs Kentucky .... lonnnnng way to go.

Dave

seebelow · March 15, 2015 8:10AM

Did I hear that it's a 35% chance Kentucky wins it all? For some reason that number is sticking.

Poll.....

Do 90....95....or 99% of the office pools take kentucky as the champ?

coinkat · March 15, 2015 8:42AM

Kentucky seems to the team to beat this year. Depends on the brackets- I have not seen anything yet

Brick · March 15, 2015 9:51AM

I would take Kentucky. Personally, I am rooting for Wisconsin.

BLUEJAYWAY · March 15, 2015 1:03PM

Field.

Estil · March 15, 2015 2:33PM

<< I would take Kentucky. Personally, I am rooting for Wisconsin. >>

We will most likely face them at the Final Four; since we had to take them on last year I think that would be a fun matchup before we play Villanova or the Duke boys for the championship!

PM770 · March 15, 2015 11:54PM

What would concern me about Kentucky is that they have not been challenged at all. The SEC is extremely weak this year. Kansas, Louisville, Texas and North Carolina looks like a very strong non-conference schedule, but Kentucky got unlucky that all of those teams had down years with the exception of Kansas. I was really hoping that NC State would be the 8 or 9 in Kentucky's region. They are a strange team in that they can give great teams fits.

Duke, Virginia, Arizona and Wisconsin would all be by far the best team Kentucky has faced all year and anyone of them *could* beat Kentucky this year. I also think Notre Dame is a very dangerous team in a potential Elite 8 game.

I would take the field.

Not to say this isn't a great team. They are. But I'd take the field.

sparky64 · March 16, 2015 12:29AM

I'll take the field.
It's a good question, though.

Estil · March 16, 2015 4:00AM

<< What would concern me about Kentucky is that they have not been challenged at all. The SEC is extremely weak this year. Kansas, Louisville, Texas and North Carolina looks like a very strong non-conference schedule, but Kentucky got unlucky that all of those teams had down years with the exception of Kansas. I was really hoping that NC State would be the 8 or 9 in Kentucky's region. They are a strange team in that they can give great teams fits.

Duke, Virginia, Arizona and Wisconsin would all be by far the best team Kentucky has faced all year and anyone of them *could* beat Kentucky this year. I also think Notre Dame is a very dangerous team in a potential Elite 8 game.

I would take the field.

Not to say this isn't a great team. They are. But I'd take the field. >>

You do happen to remember we blew away Kansas earlier this year right? I honestly was VERY surprised that a big name brand program like theirs (and UCLA at that time) didn't put up much of a fight. I'm sure our last couple (maybe three) of opponents will give us a fairly good fight but we've come way too far to blow it now.

larryallen73 · March 16, 2015 5:21AM

It would be a big upset if they don't win it all. That can be the answer to your other thread about big upsets. Per Vegas they are even money to win it all.

Estil · March 16, 2015 5:36AM

<< It would be a big upset if they don't win it all. That can be the answer to your other thread about big upsets. Per Vegas they are even money to win it all. >>

No no no no no no no. It would not be a big upset. It would not even be a disappointment. It would be a humiliating embarrassment (even more so than if for some reason we didn't finish the job in 1978 and 1996). We'd probably be the butt of more jokes than the 2007 Patriots.

PM770 · March 16, 2015 5:37AM

<< You do happen to remember we blew away Kansas earlier this year right? I honestly was VERY surprised that a big name brand program like theirs (and UCLA at that time) didn't put up much of a fight. I'm sure our last couple (maybe three) of opponents will give us a fairly good fight but we've come way too far to blow it now. >>

I do. I don't think Kansas is in the same ballpark as those other teams. The nonconference schedule looked great. Kansas, Louisville, UCLA, Texas, UNC. All those teams outside of Kansas were disappointing relative to expectations. I'm just saying if you are going to give me Virginia, Duke, Arizona, Wisconsin, Notre Dame, Villanova, Iowa State OR Kentucky, I'll take the field.

Please don't take what I am saying to mean I don't think Kentucky is a great team. I think they are. They remind me somewhat of UNLV back in the day. Now will it end like 1990 or 1991 for Kentucky?

Right now Vegas has Kentucky at Even and the field at -130.

Full Disclosure : Maybe this is wishful thinking but I got Duke at +850 in mid-February.

Estil · March 16, 2015 5:47AM

Agreed. This is all the more reason Kentucky must finish the job. I mean, look at the 2007 Patriots (Boston fans here please don't smack me for this for bringing them up again) and how they were all set to become among the greatest teams in NFL history...only to end up not even being the best of that year. And remember how I've gone on record as saying how the Michigan Fake Five is so overrated/Paris Hilton famous because they couldn't even win a conference title, much less a national title even with what turned out to be inelgibile players? I suppose that same standard must apply here (if we end up not being the best team of this year then we certainly have no business being discussed anywhere near among the all time great teams). And yes the 1991 UNLV team was the last time a team was running the table going into the NCAAs, but in their defense they did run into the defending NCAA Runner-Up Duke boys, and in the case of the next team before, the 1979 Larry Bird led Indiana State, they ran into Magic's Michigan State. So sure they didn't finish the job but somehow those two cases are a bit different.

Bottom line it's big gold trophy or bust. Plain and simple.

seebelow · March 16, 2015 8:12AM

....kentucky opened 2/1 and is now 1/1 to win it all.

the best of the rest to win it all....

basically 12/1 is.
wisconsin
arizona
duke

Does anyone know a bigger favorite in the past and what were the odds? Unlv x2? Duke?

Estil · March 16, 2015 5:47PM

I know there was once a team that was 18 point favorites *cough '68 Colts* and that didn't work out so well for them.

In the end screw the predictions and point spreads or odds makers or whatever. Just stay focused and complete the mission Cats!

PM770 · March 17, 2015 12:04AM

<< ....kentucky opened 2/1 and is now 1/1 to win it all.

the best of the rest to win it all....

basically 12/1 is.
wisconsin
arizona
duke

Does anyone know a bigger favorite in the past and what were the odds? Unlv x2? Duke? >>

UNLV was a bigger favorite in 1991. Don't remember the exact number but they were less than EVEN.

Duke in 1999 was a fairly large favorite but as much as EVEN.

mlbfan2 · March 17, 2015 5:07AM

<< It would be a big upset if they don't win it all. That can be the answer to your other thread about big upsets. Per Vegas they are even money to win it all. >>

The fact that they're a coin flip to win it all means it won't be a big upset if they don't win the championship. Losing any one game would be an upset, but it will not be an upset if they don't win all six of them.

larryallen73 · March 17, 2015 7:07AM

<< 

<< It would be a big upset if they don't win it all. That can be the answer to your other thread about big upsets. Per Vegas they are even money to win it all. >>

The fact that they're a coin flip to win it all means it won't be a big upset if they don't win the championship. Losing any one game would be an upset, but it will not be an upset if they don't win all six of them. >>

Ok would it be a choke job? To have that much better talent and not win would be sad I think. Basically a meltdown somewhere.

Estil · March 17, 2015 9:18AM

Trust me, upset or choke would be an understatement.

SanctionII · March 17, 2015 1:24PM

Go UC Irvine Anteaters, beat Louisville in Round 1 and shock the basketball world.

Irvine has never made it to March Madness before (over the years it has had some good teams and for a while saw a number of its players play in the NBA; including OKC coach Scott Brooks).

The one player on Irvine that will get noticed if the team wins Round 1 will be its sophmore center. He is a 20 year old from Africa who is 7'6" tall. I saw him play last year as a freshman and he was very raw and awkward. One year later I saw him play in the Big West Conference title game and was impressed with his improvement. Being 7'6" tall and having a long wingspan allows him to block many shots and grab rebounds. However, this year he has apparently developed some offensive game in the low post. He is now a scoring threat.

If he stays in school (likely for at least one more year, if not two more years) and continues to progress in his development as a player, he will no doubt be a lock to make an NBA roster. One thing remains true in basketball. You can not teach "tall". You either are or are not. For those young men who are 7'0' or taller with limited hoops skills, all you need to do is show up at a gym where college and pro scouts are. You will be assured of getting "a shot". What you do with it is up to you, but there are rags to riches stories [i.e. Mark Eaton of UCLA and Utah Jazz fame who never played hoops in middle or high school, who was 7'4" and working as a mechanic at age 18 or 19 and who was spotted by a scout and persuaded to give hoops a try].

I would like to see Irvine make some noise in the tournament to get a fresh, new Cinderella with a 7"6" "Diaper Dandy BABY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Estil · March 17, 2015 5:45PM

Trouble is as both Wilt and Jordan had to learn the hard way, even the greatest players cannot win a championship by themselves (Wilt only managed two his whole career; not really his fault exactly though; he didn't always have the supporting cast/proper coach and there was that little matter of Bill Russell's Celtics, and Jordan's Bulls weren't even close to title contenders until Scottie Pippen and the rest started coming in). Unless that 7'6" guy has at least a decent supporting cast it won't be enough to win...both at college and pro level. In fact did you know Wilt almost quit basketball after his first year in the NBA because he got so tired of being 4x/5x teamed all the time (he thought it took all the fun out of playing for him)?

larryallen73 · March 18, 2015 1:37AM

<< Go UC Irvine Anteaters, beat Louisville in Round 1 and shock the basketball world.

Irvine has never made it to March Madness before (over the years it has had some good teams and for a while saw a number of its players play in the NBA; including OKC coach Scott Brooks).

The one player on Irvine that will get noticed if the team wins Round 1 will be its sophmore center. He is a 20 year old from Africa who is 7'6" tall. I saw him play last year as a freshman and he was very raw and awkward. One year later I saw him play in the Big West Conference title game and was impressed with his improvement. Being 7'6" tall and having a long wingspan allows him to block many shots and grab rebounds. However, this year he has apparently developed some offensive game in the low post. He is now a scoring threat.

If he stays in school (likely for at least one more year, if not two more years) and continues to progress in his development as a player, he will no doubt be a lock to make an NBA roster. One thing remains true in basketball. You can not teach "tall". You either are or are not. For those young men who are 7'0' or taller with limited hoops skills, all you need to do is show up at a gym where college and pro scouts are. You will be assured of getting "a shot". What you do with it is up to you, but there are rags to riches stories [i.e. Mark Eaton of UCLA and Utah Jazz fame who never played hoops in middle or high school, who was 7'4" and working as a mechanic at age 18 or 19 and who was spotted by a scout and persuaded to give hoops a try].

I would like to see Irvine make some noise in the tournament to get a fresh, new Cinderella with a 7"6" "Diaper Dandy BABY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" >>

Sanction- You are so right about Mark Eaton. As a big UCLA fan I couldn't believe when he made an NBA roster... and each year I continued to be amazed. Before you knew it he had been an all-star and a few years later the Utah Jazz were retiring his number! Amazing for sure.

SanctionII · March 18, 2015 5:33AM

UC Irvine also has other tall players on its roster including a guy who is 7'2" tall and a guy who is 6'10" tall.

With a large front line UCI has one of the best interior defenses in college hoops, allowing opposing teams to shoot less than 40% from inside the three point line.

I understand that Louisville is a team that lacks players who are good outside shooters and scores most of its points close to the basket. If UCI plays effective defense to limit the shooting percentage of Louisville the game may be competitive instead of a blowout win by Louisville.

The 7'6" center for UCI apparently played only 8 or so games this year due to a foot injury and his team went 6-2 in those games (including a loss to Arizona where for part of the game UCI kept things close). He is back playing again and healthy at this point. It will be interesting to see how it plays against Louisville.

Speaking of players who did not pick up the game until late, I remember watching NCAA hoops back in the day and seeing a Houston Cougar freshman named Akeem Olajawon. He was at least 7' tall at the time. He was very raw and had few basketball skills at all. Growing up in Africa he played soccer. During the game that I watched the thing that jumped out at me about Akeem was that he was fast, quick and could jump out of the gym. Fast forward one year and I watched Akeem play again during his sophomore year. Like night and day. Akeem had spent time just playing and he picked up on the game quickly. He was not lost on the floor and he started to show signs of greatness.

Another example of this was a guy who was a sophomore at my high school when I was a senior. He was 15 years old, 6'8" tall, skinny, clumsy and would trip over a painted line. He made the sophomore team but did not start because he was so awkward. His name is Joe Barry Carroll. In his junior and senior years of high school he grew to 7' and his coordination caught up with his growth. He became an amazingly talented player who later played at Purdue University. After 4 years at Purdue he was the #1 draft pick in the 1980 NBA draft. He played in the NBA for many years and was an All Star player a couple of years. He has been criticized as lazy and lacking a burning passion for the game. While that may have some truth to it, his skill set was undeniable.

seebelow · March 18, 2015 6:41AM

how long have the uc irvine guys been playing together? sorry if i missed it in the writeup

SanctionII · March 20, 2015 10:55AM

UC Irvine came very close to beating Louisville today, losing by 2 points. No Cinderella story for UCI this year. The 7'6" center is still raw, but I expect him to get better by next year. If he developed more coordination, stamina and basketball skills he will have a long pro career.

larryallen73 · March 23, 2015 3:38AM

I went to two games in Portland (U of A v. I forgot and Ohio State v. VCU) and two games in Seattle (Gonzaga v. NDSU and Iowa v. Davidson). The Ohio State game was the only decent one we saw as it went to OT. Other games were horrible. Was fun as we had Ohio State staying at our hotel in Portland so saw a few of the guys around the hotel. In Seattle we had Louisville at our hotel. They were around the lobby a lot hanging out. Did not see Petino though. Both nice cities but way too cold and rainy in Seattle for my tastes. Was bummed to not have gone to the early games in Seattle as UCI put up a nice effort. Watched that at the sports bar. Taking next year off as none of the first round cities look intriguing to me. 3 Pac 12 teams in the sweet 16 is nice to see!

PM770 · March 23, 2015 4:53AM

I'm going to the Cleveland regional Thurs & Sat.

Not a fan of any of the teams, but it will be good time.

larryallen73 · March 23, 2015 7:22AM

It's funny but with all the talk of Kentucky being "one and done" it's actually lowly UCLA who put 5 players from last season's roster into the NBA. According to an article I just read: "With David Wear's addition to the NBA this week, UCLA is the only program in the nation to have put five of its players from its 2013-14 roster in the NBA." This is not a UCLA brag as I am not sure any of the 5 will do much more than Zach Levine's slam dunk contest win. However, it's interesting to note how many players do get a shot at the NBA each year... and their college has to find a way to replace them.

Estil · March 23, 2015 8:30AM

I wish I could tag along...for obvious reasons

Brick · April 4, 2015 2:14PM

Congratulations to the field.

wrestlingcardking · April 4, 2015 2:42PM

<< Trust me, upset or choke would be an understatement. >>

Let us know that you are okay....Happy to see Kentucky go down, but I have to respect them for making a run at it. Congrats to all of them for making sports interesting to the casual fan. Great theater.

Estil · April 4, 2015 2:46PM

What can I say? We went those 4-5 possessions near the end without converting and on the big stage you just can't do that. My wife has been in the hospital during the past couple weeks or so and some of the nurses and staff there were pulling for UK as well (we watched the games together in her room). Yeah, this was a humiliating disappointment to say the least...we're no better than those 2007 Patriots now.

And to make matters worse, we may end up with those Duke boys as the champs instead... *shudders* All we can hope for now is that keep at least most of our guys and make another go at it for 2016. That's all we can do really.

Well enjoy the game Monday night folks, I have no reason to see it now.

seebelow · April 4, 2015 3:08PM

I was going to say i feel bad for the players but not their coach...until seeing that the players refused to shake hands (at least most if not all). so not feeling bad for em at all.
And hearing that a lot of fans refuse to sell their tickets and taking them home with them..fair enough.

Im neutral but they're making it easy to dislike them....Actually wudda been kinda cool to witness it..until tonight. And i admit I def would have watched Monday.

I just don't see Kaminski or the rest behaving that way.

grote15 · April 4, 2015 3:56PM

The field.

sparky64 · April 4, 2015 10:27PM

I admire your passion Estil.

Not easy to come this far and have it end so suddenly.

Best wishes to you and your wife.

seebelow · April 4, 2015 10:49PM

...at least Kentuckys guard Andrew Harrison has apologized for his postgame obscenities and racial slurs directed towards Kaminski...keep it classy K

mlbfan2 · April 5, 2015 1:31AM

<< Trust me, upset or choke would be an understatement. >>

It turned out to be neither. Losing when you're only 5-point favorites is nothing but a mild upset.

larryallen73 · April 5, 2015 1:35AM

<< 

<< Trust me, upset or choke would be an understatement. >>

It turned out to be neither. Losing when you're only 5-point favorites is nothing but a mild upset. >>

Yup. Could have gone either way. Will be interesting to see who wins tomorrow night. Should be a good game.

garnettstyle · April 5, 2015 4:14AM

The SEC conference have no class. Glad those punks lost.

Estil · April 5, 2015 8:43AM

<< I admire your passion Estil.

Not easy to come this far and have it end so suddenly.

Best wishes to you and your wife. >>

Thanks, I too wanted just as badly for her Patriots to make history in 2007 (she's always been Red Sox first though; maybe they'll make some noise this year?) and yes as per tradition we have ourselves a nice Super Bowl party whenever they made the big game...and of course I was happy for her that they won their first championship in our married lives, just like hugged/kissed each other when my boys won it all in 2012. I guess it just wasn't meant to be this time.

But we'll get more chances right? Sadly WCS (my wife's favorite player; the one thing she doesn't like about college b-ball is that we only keep our players for 3-4 years at most) already pretty much decided to go for those NBA riches rather than bust out of our Senior Day circle thing next year. I guess we'll have to wait and see what the others decide, because our chances for 2016 will improve greatly the more stick around.

Enjoy tomorrow night's game fellas...me and wife have no reason to care about it now.

DIMEMAN · April 5, 2015 1:47PM

Sorry Estil.......sure hope your wife gets better...that is way more important than a ball game.

UK was just out played at the end of game. Wisconsin is tuff and could win it all.

As far as UK next year.....won't most of the players be gone? UK is known as a NBA staging area. They only stay a year or two.

So you will probably have a whole new team to root for next year.

Justacommeman · April 5, 2015 2:16PM

No shame in Kentucky losing. The better team won

Mark

Estil · April 5, 2015 2:41PM

<< Sorry Estil.......sure hope your wife gets better...that is way more important than a ball game.

UK was just out played at the end of game. Wisconsin is tuff and could win it all.

As far as UK next year.....won't most of the players be gone? UK is known as a NBA staging area. They only stay a year or two.

So you will probably have a whole new team to root for next year. >>

True but it still would've been nice for us to watch them together Monday night.

To answer your question about most of the players being gone, not necessarily. We only lost four guys from last year and two of those were graduating seniors (I think all three of our graduating seniors this year were "Rudys"). Of course after the 2012 championship nearly all the guys left and they all but had a "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED" banner above their heads during their formal announcement. Had we finished the job of course most all with at least decent NBA chances would probably leave without a second thought. But now that's not so easy. Even WCS who all but decided he was leaving also said how wonderful it would've been to bring home the gold trophy and have all of us BBN screaming during the homecoming...hopefully he remembers he does still have one more chance to do so in 2016 if he chooses to take it. Our only other junior, Alex Poythress was hurt most of this year so he'll certainly be back with us next year; provided he fully recovers of course.

Our key sophomores of course are the Harrison twins and Dakari Johnson. Dakari will most likely stay but the twins averaged almost 20 points per game combined so they are certainly at least reasonably qualified to go pro if they so choose. Our top freshmen of course was KAT and Devin Booker who both averaged double figures this year...I don't think Devin should rush going to the NBA and I think it's likely he'll stay.

So let's see, other than WCS, KAT, and the Harrison twins, I don't think it's likely we'll lose anyone else. And if KAT and/or the twins choose to stay, all the better.

And as Dick Vitale would say, let's not forget all those diaper dandies coming to Lexington for 2016, baby!

thunderpower · April 6, 2015 12:53AM

<< The SEC conference have no class. Glad those punks lost. >>

"Classy" Ohio State Fans Rioting After Win

Estil · April 6, 2015 5:36AM

<< 

<< The SEC conference have no class. Glad those punks lost. >>

"Classy" Ohio State Fans Rioting After Win >>

Yeah I don't see how the rest of the SEC got into this discussion; true we are in the SEC but we're only one of fourteen teams; we don't speak for those other guys.

GRANDAM · April 6, 2015 1:06PM

Go DUKE!!!!!

GrandAm

jay0791 · April 6, 2015 1:34PM

Congrats Duke

BTW did anyone else get a screwed up TV game or was it just my Timewarner...

The whole second half was a technical failure. TV started and stopped the whole 2nd half.

Really really sucked.

GRANDAM · April 6, 2015 1:37PM

My DirecTV went out a couple of times for a few minutes?

GrandAm

March Madness 2015 - Kentucky or the field?

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