1967 Punchouts variations are now excluded!

JoeBanzai · November 17, 2014 10:11AM

Fought the battle for about a year to have all three variations of the Killebrew included. Seemed obvious that there were three completely different cards.

Contacted Tom Bartsch of SCD and he agreed and notified PSA of his opinion.

I have been told on several occasions that if the card is cataloged as a variation, then it is simply a matter of adding it to the Master Set.

Got all that done. Cards were added, now PSA has changed their mind, only one will be allowed. There goes a bunch of my hard earned cash down the drain.

Sometimes it's difficult to enjoy the hobby.

bishop · November 18, 2014 12:14AM

Joe--I assume you are referring to the different line up variations that occur on cards with Killebrew as captain. I agree they are clearly variations, but know of only one guy, Larry S, who has come close to a master set of all the captains and all the possible lineup differences. There are also at least 4 captains with actual picture/pose differences...Mantle, Clemente, Alou and Frank Robinson. They are listed in SCD ( not sure about Beckett) I have yet to snag the 2nd Clemente, but have the others and a full set of the captains, plus a pack. I have elected not to pursue the lineup differences.

Ironically PSA includes the two Clemente pose differences in it's checklist for the set, but not the Alou, Mantle or Robinson. The Mantle is subtle but the Alou and Robinson ( different uniforms) are clear cut. There is only one set listed in the Registry and it is incomplete. I think there are very few collectors with a lot of knowledge about this set. Maybe that is the problem

JoeBanzai · November 18, 2014 3:54AM

When I first tried to get these added PSA claimed they couldn't find the variations listed in any guide. I have been told that this is/was incorrect. I provided scans of the cards to PSA and was again turned down. I then contacted Tom Bartsch of SCD and he agreed with me that the cards were true variations. PSA still turned me down. At this point I did kind of an email "blast" at PSA trying to get someone to actually take an honest look at these and the cards were finally approved and added to my set.

Now they are unceremoniously dropped, with no explanation. PSA's own guidelines seem to be clear that the cards MUST be variations, but they have decided to recognize only one.

This has cost me a lot of time and money and I have a very bad taste in my mouth.

Win a few, lose a few.

Joe

bishop · November 18, 2014 7:22AM

The people making these decisions often no far less about these more off beat issues than actual collectors . I assume the reason they list the Clemente pose variation and not the other 3 shown above is they have never been submitted (it looks like just one partial set is listed on the Registry). Maybe some other Killebrew collectors complained about the additions ?

bxb · November 18, 2014 7:58AM

<< <i>The people making these decisions often no far less about these more off beat issues than actual collectors . I assume the reason the list the Clemente pose variation and not the other 3 shown above is they have never been submitted (it looks like just one partial set is listed on the Registry. Maybe some other Killebrew collectors complained about the additions ? >>

I have lost several of these battles myself, and have come to the following conclusions:

No one, at PSA or elsewhere, can be an expert on every card issue. So you hope they remain open-minded to new ideas and make adjustments accordingly. We are all here for the fun and enjoyment of collecting, and hopefully approach differences of opinion constructively and respectfully. That being said, it is not a democratic process - they have the final word, it's their company, and that's the way it is.

bishop · November 18, 2014 9:51AM

Good post bxb

JoeBanzai · November 18, 2014 12:20PM

Agree that it is their company and they may do as they wish, but when you "prove" something to them using their own required evidence, they should follow through. Once a card or cards have been added to the set, shouldn't there have to be a compelling reason for removal? Because I said so doesn't count.

I was told several times that they do not authenticate these variations.........but based their decisions on other reference books, with SCD being one of the experts in cataloging the sets.

As far as other Killebrew collector's complaints, it is the Master Set and that set should have ALL the different cards issued during his career.

buildingcal · November 18, 2014 12:39PM

they just added some super sets, example cal ripken jr, ask them to do this and all cards will be added

JoeBanzai · November 19, 2014 12:10AM

Not interested in the Super Set. Thanks for the suggestion though.

These cards belong in the Master set in my opinion.

bishop · November 19, 2014 2:58AM

Same problem might exist in super category as well. In the Mantle super set they do not have the two 67 Punch Outs posted above, maybe because both versions have not been graded. They also do not have both version of his 52 card,which are also actual variations. Nor his 66 Punch Out card.

IndianaJones · November 19, 2014 3:16AM

----JoeBanzai,

You've most assuredly done your homework here, and I sure cannot fathom why they would accept, and then deny, your variation addition. When you've done your best to approach them with the criteria they base their decisions upon, it is a sore test of your patience. Don't give up. You KNOW what you have. Does there have to be more than just your specimen to justify its removal for the moment?

When one considers how many variations PSA accepted of the 1962 Post Cereal Canadian series Mickey Mantle cards, it would seem to me you have a good case.

Hang in there, collector warrior. I sure hope, in time, this can be rectified. Perhaps respectfully approaching Mr. Orlando at a show armed with the variations in hand might do the trick. ---Indiana Jones (Brian Powell)

bishop · November 19, 2014 7:51AM

Larry Serota might be of some help. He has a full set of the captains and all, or almost all, of the lineup variations. If you do not know him, pm me an email address and I will ask him to get in touch with you

JoeBanzai · November 19, 2014 1:37PM

<< <i>----JoeBanzai,

You've most assuredly done your homework here, and I sure cannot fathom why they would accept, and then deny, your variation addition. When you've done your best to approach them with the criteria they base their decisions upon, it is a sore test of your patience. Don't give up. You KNOW what you have. Does there have to be more than just your specimen to justify its removal for the moment?

When one considers how many variations PSA accepted of the 1962 Post Cereal Canadian series Mickey Mantle cards, it would seem to me you have a good case.

Hang in there, collector warrior. I sure hope, in time, this can be rectified. Perhaps respectfully approaching Mr. Orlando at a show armed with the variations in hand might do the trick. ---Indiana Jones (Brian Powell) >>

Thanks for the kind words Brian! You are spot on as far as my working with PSA goes.

Bottom line is I have all the available variations, they are graded and I am happy about that.

Have FUN collecting!

1967 Punchouts variations are now excluded!

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