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1970 Roosevelt Dime reverse wide A M/near AM varieties?

StoogeStooge Posts: 4,646 ✭✭✭✭✭
in PCGS Set Registry Forum
Ever since someone discovered the difference between some of the Lincoln Cent reverses having a wide and near AM in AMERICA, and the reverse of the Roosevelt Dime having somewhat the same reverse as the Cent with the wrap around of United States of America, I have wondered if there was a subtle difference in any of the reverses of the dimes. Especially since the Cherry Pickers guide has several different reverses of 1968 that ended up on the 1969 & 1970 Roosevelts. So I just happen to keep an eye out to see if I noticed if there were any similar wide and near AM varieties and I believe that I might have found a set. Actually 3 different reverses, all borrowed from eBay photos. Opinions welcome...

imageimageimage

Thanks, Paul.

Later, Paul.

Comments

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    DMWJRDMWJR Posts: 5,975 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Now I see them.
    Doug
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    DMWJRDMWJR Posts: 5,975 ✭✭✭✭✭
    What years are those? The third one certainly has different lettering than the other two.
    Doug
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    StoogeStooge Posts: 4,646 ✭✭✭✭✭
    All 3 of these reverses are from 1970-P business strikes. I know that the Wide/Near AM varieties appear on Lincoln Proofs as well. I have not checked any dates so far in the Roosevelt Dime series.

    Paul.

    Later, Paul.
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    DMWJRDMWJR Posts: 5,975 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Check this page, and be sure and click the 1970 date. See if that helps any.

    http://www.varietyvista.com/Roosevelt%20Dime%20RDV%20Changes.htm
    Doug
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    StoogeStooge Posts: 4,646 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I went through most of the links for the clad composition Roosevelts and didn't see anything listed regarding the wide/near AM varieties.

    Paul.

    Later, Paul.
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    DMWJRDMWJR Posts: 5,975 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Don't know if I am helping or showing my ignorance of the series. The Lincoln wide and close AM resulted from the use of proof dies (design) on circulation issues, and vice versa. The pick up point for these two designs are the "AM" on the Lincoln. Same thing happened with Washington quarters with the PUP being the ES of STATES. For the Roosevelts, the PUP is not the ES or the AM, but rather the torch detail. 1970 was a transition to the new "proof style" reverse on business strike coins, so you should be able to find 1970's withe either reverse. Depending on the ratio between the two, there may be no, some, a large premium.

    Hopefully someone better educated with chime in.
    Doug
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    DIMEMANDIMEMAN Posts: 22,403 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I will have to check this out......I have several rolls of 70-P's.
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    Dan50Dan50 Posts: 1,809 ✭✭✭
    Paul I can't find any diff. in the one's I own, even with the Rev. of 68's I have. Does anyone know if they used more than one 68 proof reverse die? image
    Dan
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    DIMEMANDIMEMAN Posts: 22,403 ✭✭✭✭✭
    This appears to be the far AM (where they do not touch), but don't know for sure until I get it in hand.

    Also looks to be rev of 68.

    link
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    StoogeStooge Posts: 4,646 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Dimeman,

    The one in your link with the Rev of '68 is separated with no bar between the A & M. If you look at the top 2 pictures I posted, there is a flat solid bar connecting both letters. I've noticed that not all of the Roosies have this difference.

    Paul.

    Later, Paul.
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    DIMEMANDIMEMAN Posts: 22,403 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Paul, that is my thinking also. The one in my link is like the bottom one in your OP, which seems to be the uncommon (where they do not touch).

    I still need to look at the 4 rolls I have.
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    DIMEMANDIMEMAN Posts: 22,403 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Paul,

    I got the 1970 today in hand that was in the link I gave you. The pic is misleading....the A and M are connected. It is NOT one like the bottom pic in your thread.

    I would get the one in your post from NFC if it were not so expensive.image

    First I need to look thru those 4 rolls. That should give us an idea of how scarce the separated A M is.
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    DIMEMANDIMEMAN Posts: 22,403 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Well, I went thru 4 rolls of 1970-P dimes and found 0 wide (separated) "AM" reverses. I have started looking for this on all dimes that I look at on sites. So far the only one I have found is a 1946-P in low grade. Also, I have a tin can that I dump my dimes from change in. It probably has a thousand or more Dimes in it. I looked at a few and found a 1991-P 2013-D and 2014-D with the wide "AM"

    So, I don't know what the deal is on this different reverse.

    Any other finds by anybody here?
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    AUandAGAUandAG Posts: 24,536 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The first two pictured are from the same die. No difference, camera problem. Note that there is a die chip (actually
    a line) to the left of the O in OF and one to the right of the F in OF. Same marker, same die.

    bobimage
    Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), bobinvegas1989@yahoo.com
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    DIMEMANDIMEMAN Posts: 22,403 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Found this 1965 Wide A M and thought it was neat for a clad.

    image
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    QBertQBert Posts: 311 ✭✭✭
    Are these known varieties or somthing recent?
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    StoogeStooge Posts: 4,646 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Qbert,

    We are trying to figure out if they are type I and type II reverses. I do know that for the date 1946, there are types I & II Obverses where the "Y" in liberty is closer to the top of Franklin's head in type I then in type II Kevin Flynn speaks about this in his Authoritative Reference guide to Roosevelt Dimes and also he talks about the pointed and blunt 1964/1964-D Dimes PR/UNC.

    Dimeman,

    Have you found a close AM on a 1965 business strike?

    Does anyone else have one?

    Later, Paul.
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    DIMEMANDIMEMAN Posts: 22,403 ✭✭✭✭✭
    >>>Have you found a close AM on a 1965 business strike?<<<

    The 1965 in my sets is a close AM that is connected by the bar at bottom of A and M.

    I have been looking at all dimes for this for several months and have found that very very few have the far A M.

    This is very interesting and puzzeling at the same time.
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    StoogeStooge Posts: 4,646 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I have been looking at all dimes for this for several months and have found that very very few have the far A M.

    This is very interesting and puzzling at the same time. >>

    This is exactly what we want, it wouldn't be worth looking for if it were common. We now have to get the CPG to acknowledge them.

    Later, Paul.
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    DIMEMANDIMEMAN Posts: 22,403 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Well, I guess this variety will have to be a "in hands" check only! I just got the 1965 (above pic) and it is NOT the wide A M. It has the connecting bar. It does not show in the pic, but it is there. And it is the SAME coin.

    ARGH!!!

    Edited to add : I bet that in hand the 1970 in the OP is actually NOT the wide A M. I'll bet there is a bar connecting them. And I am not going to spend the $400 to find out!image
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    DIMEMANDIMEMAN Posts: 22,403 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I have come to the conclusion that this space between the A&M is merely a die state. It is such a small area that it wears away very soon.

    JMHO
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