Quick Links:   Collectors Corner | PCGS | PSA | PSE | PSA/DNA | CU



Navigation:


FORUMS > PCGS SET REGISTRY FORUM [ REFRESH ]
Thread Title: ALERT !! Tyler Doubled Edge Lettering - Overlapped - ALERT !!
Created On Thursday May 13, 2010 11:07 PM
Pages: [ << 1 2 3 >> Previous Next ]


Silverstate
Collector

Posts: 1578
Joined: Apr 2007

Saturday May 15, 2010 5:39 PM

User is offline View users profile View thread in raw text format

Lee,

I understand and agree with your concerns.

Mitch & Jaime will get this figured out.

Thanks.

-------------------------
 Jim
Reno, NV
=========================

Our Website -->Presidential Dollar Errors, Lincoln Cents and more
Check it out --> Our eBay Auctions

Reply
Quote
Top
Bottom



19Lyds
Master IKE Collector

Posts: 17547
Joined: Apr 2004

Sunday May 16, 2010 8:21 AM

User is offline View users profile View thread in raw text format



<<

<< Jim: Thanks for the "heads up". I'll see what I can possibly uncover tomorrow on this subject.

By the way, is this the only President with "Doubled Edge Lettering" that you are fairly certain is potentially misattributed at this point?

Wondercoin >>



Mitch,

I highly encourage review of these PCGS Coin Numbers.
PCGS # 400256 - 2007-P George Washington - Doubled Edge Lettering, Overlapped (POP 2)
PCGS # 415040 - 2007-P Thomas Jefferson - Doubled Edge Lettering, Overlapped (POP 1)
PCGS # 413834 - 2009-P John Tyler - Position A, Doubled Edge Lettering, Overlapped (POP 8)
PCGS # 414799 - 2009-P John Tyler - Position B, Doubled Edge Lettering, Overlapped (POP 2 + genuine)
PCGS # 419043 -2009-P Zachary Taylor - Position A, Doubled Edge Lettering, Overlapped (POP 1)
PCGS # 419044 - 2009-P Zachary Taylor - Position B, Doubled Edge Lettering, Overlapped (POP 1)

They all came in a very short period of time. And I have confirmed with at least one other collector that his Tyler Overlapped that he purchased can be described almost exactly as mine has been. >>



I wonder if the coins in this auction are the source for the Taylor coins?

-------------------------
 Lee

I cannot and will not be held responsible for my typing errors as it appears that there is a bug in the keyboard!
........I've tried on numberous occasions to fix the problme but it just keeps coming back agin and again! -L. Lydston 2008

Snakeskin Proofs™ - You heard it here first Folks!

Reply
Quote
Top
Bottom



Silverstate
Collector

Posts: 1578
Joined: Apr 2007

Sunday May 16, 2010 11:29 PM

User is offline View users profile View thread in raw text format



<< I wonder if the coins in this auction are the source for the Taylor coins? >>



Looks like an Overlapped Letter coin.

just a minor variety...I have a few of these from different presidents.

These should/would only be 'E' coins.

-------------------------
 Jim
Reno, NV
=========================

Our Website -->Presidential Dollar Errors, Lincoln Cents and more
Check it out --> Our eBay Auctions

Reply
Quote
Top
Bottom



19Lyds
Master IKE Collector

Posts: 17547
Joined: Apr 2004

Monday May 17, 2010 1:26 PM

User is offline View users profile View thread in raw text format



<<

<< I wonder if the coins in this auction are the source for the Taylor coins? >>



Looks like an Overlapped Letter coin.

just a minor variety...I have a few of these from different presidents.

These should/would only be 'E' coins. >>



Ah yes, but they were purchased by your seller on Feb 19th.

-------------------------
 Lee

I cannot and will not be held responsible for my typing errors as it appears that there is a bug in the keyboard!
........I've tried on numberous occasions to fix the problme but it just keeps coming back agin and again! -L. Lydston 2008

Snakeskin Proofs™ - You heard it here first Folks!

Reply
Quote
Top
Bottom



Silverstate
Collector

Posts: 1578
Joined: Apr 2007

Monday May 17, 2010 5:45 PM

User is offline View users profile View thread in raw text format



<<

<<

<< I wonder if the coins in this auction are the source for the Taylor coins? >>



Looks like an Overlapped Letter coin.

just a minor variety...I have a few of these from different presidents.

These should/would only be 'E' coins. >>



Ah yes, but they were purchased by your seller on Feb 19th. >>



That explains how the Taylor Dollar Varieties made it into holders?




This is what a TRUE Doubled Edge coin looks like....



-------------------------
 Jim
Reno, NV
=========================

Our Website -->Presidential Dollar Errors, Lincoln Cents and more
Check it out --> Our eBay Auctions

Edited: Tuesday May 18, 2010 at 9:43 AM by Silverstate

Reply
Quote
Top
Bottom



Kaelasdad
Veteran

Posts: 896
Joined: Feb 2006

Tuesday May 18, 2010 1:36 PM

User is offline View users profile View thread in raw text format

Just my 2 cents. I know the seller as well, and I sold one of the coins to him. Having dealt with the Adams double edges in the past, I was very aware that the coin was a shifted letter coin, and sold it as such. I had even attempted to have PCGS grade these types of coins as shifted letters overlapped, but they declined. The coin was purchased by the buyer on the belief that eventually, PCGS would accept the shifted letters coins and grade accordingly.

This is not a double edged lettering coin, as it did not go through the machine twice, it went through once and the lettering, stars, and dots seem to have shifted on the coin, in some places ending up as overlapped--obviously there was never to be an inverted, because the letters only ever hit the coin once.

I have a no return policy on my sales, unless the coin is not as described. Even with that policy, if a buyer decides that the coin isnt to their liking or standards, I make arrangements to replace the coin or refund. Like spots on the lincoln cents, some buyers are really hit unaware that these are so common.

I also understand that if i sold a mislabled coin, i would refund, no question. It would seem that the seller got the lables he fought for, and sold them as such. In his mind, the buyer got what was advertised, in a PCGS labled slab. And since he fought for the lable, it isnt mislabled. That doesnt make it right, and it doesnt make the coins proper. I think PCGS made an error because someone saw overlapped, and simply attributed them the same as other presidential overlapped coins.

These are not double edge lettering coins and the seller should do the right thing. What will probably happen is PCGS will have to make up for the problem, but the seller will always have the egg on his face for his decision to keep the cash, and say to hell with common sense and the buyers. Not bright to alienate the top variety buyers.

Reply
Quote
Top
Bottom



19Lyds
Master IKE Collector

Posts: 17547
Joined: Apr 2004

Tuesday May 18, 2010 1:56 PM

User is offline View users profile View thread in raw text format

The cert number in Jim's auction is no longer valid for display.

So far so good!

-------------------------
 Lee

I cannot and will not be held responsible for my typing errors as it appears that there is a bug in the keyboard!
........I've tried on numberous occasions to fix the problme but it just keeps coming back agin and again! -L. Lydston 2008

Snakeskin Proofs™ - You heard it here first Folks!

Reply
Quote
Top
Bottom



19Lyds
Master IKE Collector

Posts: 17547
Joined: Apr 2004

Tuesday May 18, 2010 1:59 PM

User is offline View users profile View thread in raw text format



<< Not bright to alienate the top variety buyers. >>



Ditto Kiddo!

Now the question that needs responding to is: How long will it take to get these off of the "required" list?

-------------------------
 Lee

I cannot and will not be held responsible for my typing errors as it appears that there is a bug in the keyboard!
........I've tried on numberous occasions to fix the problme but it just keeps coming back agin and again! -L. Lydston 2008

Snakeskin Proofs™ - You heard it here first Folks!

Edited: Tuesday May 18, 2010 at 2:01 PM by 19Lyds

Reply
Quote
Top
Bottom



wondercoin
Patterns to Plats, MS to Mattes

Posts: 12312
Joined: May 2001

Tuesday May 18, 2010 2:48 PM

User is offline View users profile View thread in raw text format

"What will probably happen is PCGS will have to make up for the problem"

That is a very interesting position.... Jim paid under $2,000 for the coin. What if the coins would have sold for $10,000, $20,000, $50,000 (who knows what the others did, in fact, sell for)? Does PCGS write a check for ANY sum a buyer pays a seller?? What if PCGS values the coins at $25 plus a grading fee - roughly the exact price the coins fetched in a public auction the first time they were sold raw? Folks, we have roughly a $25 coin that got into a holder - perhaps the wrong holder? Does that mean PCGS is on the hook for $2,000, $5,000, $10,000/coin - any sum?? Since a "true" doubled edge lettering coin is nearly as easy to spot with the naked eye as a 55/55 doubled die cent, are buyers not responsible for reviewing their coins and returning clearly erroneously graded pieces to the seller for a refund? If there is NO RETURN POLICY which a buyer agrees to and pays $10,000 for one of these $25 raw coins - is that 100% PCGS' problem? I am taking no positions here... I am just welcoming your thoughts? Wondercoin.

-------------------------
 Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.

Reply
Quote
Top
Bottom



19Lyds
Master IKE Collector

Posts: 17547
Joined: Apr 2004

Tuesday May 18, 2010 3:58 PM

User is offline View users profile View thread in raw text format



<< "What will probably happen is PCGS will have to make up for the problem"

That is a very interesting position.... Jim paid under $2,000 for the coin. What if the coins would have sold for $10,000, $20,000, $50,000 (who knows what the others did, in fact, sell for)? Does PCGS write a check for ANY sum a buyer pays a seller?? What if PCGS values the coins at $25 plus a grading fee - roughly the exact price the coins fetched in a public auction the first time they were sold raw? Folks, we have roughly a $25 coin that got into a holder - perhaps the wrong holder? Does that mean PCGS is on the hook for $2,000, $5,000, $10,000/coin - any sum?? Since a "true" doubled edge lettering coin is nearly as easy to spot with the naked eye as a 55/55 doubled die cent, are buyers not responsible for reviewing their coins and returning clearly erroneously graded pieces to the seller for a refund? If there is NO RETURN POLICY which a buyer agrees to and pays $10,000 for one of these $25 raw coins - is that 100% PCGS' problem? I am taking no positions here... I am just welcoming your thoughts? Wondercoin. >>

While I don't think PCGS is fully financially responsible in the scenario's you outlined above, I do think that they should bear a "BULK" of the financial responsibility in THIS PARTICULAR case since it was PCGS which "designated" THIS PARTICULAR coin incorrectly. Full "sight unseen" trust that PCGS attributed the coin correctly was THE major factor in the buyers decision to purchase this coin. Had it been raw, I'm sure the buyer would not have commited such a large sum.

Additionally, since this was a "inhand unseen" eBay listing where typically buyers do not have the privilege of examining coins before bidding or buying and mearly work under the assumption that the coin they are purchasing has been correctly attributed, it cannot be compared to some other auction venue's where coin viewing is permited prior to committing large sums of money. On eBay, when it turns out that the coin is improperly attributed (which can happen), it's the responsibility of the seller to make the buyer whole.
However, in this case, the seller is claiming that PCGS attributed the coin correctly but the buyer is saying it is not and wants to return the coin. The seller, or so it appears, is refusing to honor a return request which is where half the problem is. The other half is whether or not the coin is properly attributed.

I think that once PCGS examines the coin in question, they should make their ruling available to the buyer AND the seller.
If the seller still refuses to honor the return request, I personally think that PCGS should step up and address the situation at least to the buyers satisfaction. However they want to address the submitter/seller and the other coins he submitted is between him and them.

The bottom line is that the buyer could lose a lot of money over PCGS's error in incorrectly attributing the coin so IMO, some responsibility should be assumed on PCGS's part.

I still do not understand how this misattribution could have happened.


-------------------------
 Lee

I cannot and will not be held responsible for my typing errors as it appears that there is a bug in the keyboard!
........I've tried on numberous occasions to fix the problme but it just keeps coming back agin and again! -L. Lydston 2008

Snakeskin Proofs™ - You heard it here first Folks!

Reply
Quote
Top
Bottom



wondercoin
Patterns to Plats, MS to Mattes

Posts: 12312
Joined: May 2001

Tuesday May 18, 2010 6:18 PM

User is offline View users profile View thread in raw text format

Lee: Excellent answer. It made sense to me on virtually every front.

Wondercoin

-------------------------
 Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.

Reply
Quote
Top
Bottom



Silverstate
Collector

Posts: 1578
Joined: Apr 2007

Wednesday May 19, 2010 3:12 PM

User is offline View users profile View thread in raw text format

The latest update is .....

My coin has been pulled from the database as well as (2) other registry participants that I can see.

So it looks like the score is
4 down, 12 to go.....

This should wake some people up.

-------------------------
 Jim
Reno, NV
=========================

Our Website -->Presidential Dollar Errors, Lincoln Cents and more
Check it out --> Our eBay Auctions

Edited: Wednesday May 19, 2010 at 8:46 PM by Silverstate

Reply
Quote
Top
Bottom



19Lyds
Master IKE Collector

Posts: 17547
Joined: Apr 2004

Wednesday May 19, 2010 3:59 PM

User is offline View users profile View thread in raw text format



Woke me up about 5 days ago!

-------------------------
 Lee

I cannot and will not be held responsible for my typing errors as it appears that there is a bug in the keyboard!
........I've tried on numberous occasions to fix the problme but it just keeps coming back agin and again! -L. Lydston 2008

Snakeskin Proofs™ - You heard it here first Folks!

Edited: Wednesday May 19, 2010 at 3:59 PM by 19Lyds

Reply
Quote
Top
Bottom



Kaelasdad
Veteran

Posts: 896
Joined: Feb 2006

Wednesday May 19, 2010 4:46 PM

User is offline View users profile View thread in raw text format

I find it very interesting that the seller, who used to comment like crazy in caps about his wonderful finds, is so glaringly absent.

The buyer purchased this coin based on the reputation of PCGS, but the seller lost his by his actions before, during, and after the sale. Even with all the confusion about the lableing, he sold another coin last night. What a mess for the buyers and PCGS. the seller gets the cash and sold his reputation in the process

So, ever wonder what youre reputation is worth?

Reply
Quote
Top
Bottom



wondercoin
Patterns to Plats, MS to Mattes

Posts: 12312
Joined: May 2001

Wednesday May 19, 2010 5:20 PM

User is offline View users profile View thread in raw text format

I saw the coin today before delivering it over to PCGS. I believe it is essentially as Jim has described it here. I know PCGS plans on examining it over the next few days. Hopefully, Jim can keep us posted on what it ultimately decided at PCGS.

Wondercoin



-------------------------
 Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.

Reply
Quote
Top
Bottom



19Lyds
Master IKE Collector

Posts: 17547
Joined: Apr 2004

Thursday May 20, 2010 8:52 AM

User is offline View users profile View thread in raw text format

Given the fact that Jim's coin and one other like it have evidently been mis-attributed, I have serious concerns over the attribution of the following coins:

2007-P George Washington - Doubled Edge Lettering, Overlapped
2007-P Thomas Jefferson - Doubled Edge Lettering, Overlapped
2008-P James Monroe - Doubled Edge Lettering, Overlapped, FDI
2008-P James Monroe - Doubled Edge Lettering, Overlapped, Satin Finish
2009-P John Tyler - Position A, Doubled Edge Lettering, Overlapped
2009-P John Tyler - Position B, Doubled Edge Lettering, Overlapped
2009-P Zachary Taylor - Position A, Doubled Edge Lettering, Overlapped
2009-P Zachary Taylor - Position B, Doubled Edge Lettering, Overlapped



-------------------------
 Lee

I cannot and will not be held responsible for my typing errors as it appears that there is a bug in the keyboard!
........I've tried on numberous occasions to fix the problme but it just keeps coming back agin and again! -L. Lydston 2008

Snakeskin Proofs™ - You heard it here first Folks!

Reply
Quote
Top
Bottom



Silverstate
Collector

Posts: 1578
Joined: Apr 2007

Thursday May 20, 2010 3:12 PM

User is offline View users profile View thread in raw text format



<< Given the fact that Jim's coin and one other like it have evidently been mis-attributed, I have serious concerns over the attribution of the following coins:

2007-P George Washington - Doubled Edge Lettering, Overlapped
2007-P Thomas Jefferson - Doubled Edge Lettering, Overlapped
2008-P James Monroe - Doubled Edge Lettering, Overlapped, FDI <-----------------This one is in my Set. I am willing to prove it as needed on this one. - It is all there! It was graded on First Day Monroes came out.
2008-P James Monroe - Doubled Edge Lettering, Overlapped, Satin Finish <-------- I know where this one is...But it's not in my set. I believe it could be made available as needed as well.
2009-P John Tyler - Position A, Doubled Edge Lettering, Overlapped
2009-P John Tyler - Position B, Doubled Edge Lettering, Overlapped
2009-P Zachary Taylor - Position A, Doubled Edge Lettering, Overlapped
2009-P Zachary Taylor - Position B, Doubled Edge Lettering, Overlapped >>



As for the rest, all of which have been submitted by same person in the last 7-8 months...They are soon to be exposed as mis-labeled coins.
IMHO

-------------------------
 Jim
Reno, NV
=========================

Our Website -->Presidential Dollar Errors, Lincoln Cents and more
Check it out --> Our eBay Auctions

Reply
Quote
Top
Bottom



19Lyds
Master IKE Collector

Posts: 17547
Joined: Apr 2004

Tuesday May 25, 2010 2:00 PM

User is offline View users profile View thread in raw text format

Any updates on this Jim?

-------------------------
 Lee

I cannot and will not be held responsible for my typing errors as it appears that there is a bug in the keyboard!
........I've tried on numberous occasions to fix the problme but it just keeps coming back agin and again! -L. Lydston 2008

Snakeskin Proofs™ - You heard it here first Folks!

Reply
Quote
Top
Bottom



wondercoin
Patterns to Plats, MS to Mattes

Posts: 12312
Joined: May 2001

Tuesday May 25, 2010 4:56 PM

User is offline View users profile View thread in raw text format

I just updated Jim.

Wondercoin

-------------------------
 Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.

Reply
Quote
Top
Bottom



19Lyds
Master IKE Collector

Posts: 17547
Joined: Apr 2004

Tuesday May 25, 2010 6:14 PM

User is offline View users profile View thread in raw text format



<< I just updated Jim.

Wondercoin >>





-------------------------
 Lee

I cannot and will not be held responsible for my typing errors as it appears that there is a bug in the keyboard!
........I've tried on numberous occasions to fix the problme but it just keeps coming back agin and again! -L. Lydston 2008

Snakeskin Proofs™ - You heard it here first Folks!

Reply
Quote
Top
Bottom

Pages: [ << 1 2 3 >> Previous Next ]
FORUMS > PCGS SET REGISTRY FORUM [ REFRESH ]
View Member Listing | Add To Member Listing

Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Terms of Membership

Collectors Universe, Inc., or any subsidiary or affiliate is not responsible for the accuracy, completeness or validity of any information contained in any messages.

FuseTalk 3.0 - Copyright © 1999-2002 e-Zone Media Inc. All rights reserved.