UPDATE A Love affair between 2 eBayers.....1793 + 1794

ArizonaRareCoins · October 5, 2015 4:10PM

Isn't this sweet....on Aug 6, ebay member 'wholesalecoins99 (241)' sold his 1793 Wreath cent to ebay member 's***i (59)' aka 'smitus-icdwdre (59 )':

1793 Wreath PCGS XF damage PCGS#25206504

and yet again, on Aug 21, ebay member 'wholesalecoins99 (241)' sold his 1793 Wreath cent to ebay member 's***i (59)' aka 'smitus-icdwdre (59 )':

1793 Wreath PCGS XF damage PCGS#25206504

today, ebay member 'smitus-icdwdre (59)' is selling that same 1793 Wreath cent to ebay member 's***l (241)' aka 'wholesalecoins99(241)':

1793 Wreath PCGS XF damage PCGS#25206504

on July 19, ebay member 'wholesalecoins99 (241)' sold his 1794 Flowing cent to ebay member 's***i (59)' aka 'smitus-icdwdre (59 )':

1794 Flowing NGC XF corrosion NGC#2662244-005

and yet again, on Aug 6, ebay member 'wholesalecoins99 (241)' sold his 1794 Flowing cent to ebay member 's***i (59)' aka 'smitus-icdwdre (59 )':

1794 Flowing NGC XF corrosion NGC#2662244-005

today, ebay member 'smitus-icdwdre (59)' is selling that same 1794 Flowing cent to ebay member 's***l (241)' aka 'wholesalecoins99(241)':

1794 Flowing NGC XF corrosion NGC#2662244-005

SHILL bidding at its finest.

*** UPDATE ***
The seller/crook wholsalecoins99 and his co-conspirator smitus-icdwdre, have been NARU'd from eBay:
wholsalecoins99 NARU'd

smitus-icdwdre NARU'd

TopographicOceans · October 5, 2015 5:47PM

What a tool.
Of course maybe s***I(59) kept returning it, and so they had to relist it.

He's sure racking up eBay fees

Treashunt · October 5, 2015 7:54PM

why can't eBay do anything about this?

Of course not, they get their fees.

oih82w8 · October 5, 2015 9:56PM

That is the big thing...$$$

Christos · October 5, 2015 10:31PM

If you have a zero insertion fee special and then cancle for cause there are no fees. This being the case these listings most likely did not cost the seller anything.

TigersFan2 · October 5, 2015 10:58PM

Ebay refunds the selling fees on returns. So no fees.

streeter · October 5, 2015 11:11PM

And,
This seller used the same schill bidder to push this auction. 400952777969 past $5,000.

Dirty dirty dirty.

keyman64 · October 5, 2015 11:43PM

Ahhhh, Love!

ricko · October 6, 2015 12:22AM

Amazing what can be seen on ebay with a bit of data analysis...... long ago gave up on this venue.... Yes, I know, sometimes some treasures are found.... but for me, just not worth the hassle. Cheers, RickO

TPRC · October 6, 2015 2:16AM

<< <i>Amazing what can be seen on ebay with a bit of data analysis...... long ago gave up on this venue.... Yes, I know, sometimes some treasures are found.... but for me, just not worth the hassle. Cheers, RickO >>

+1

LindeDad · October 6, 2015 3:34AM

Keep looking you will find a lot more.
Wish I had one.

TigersFan2 · October 6, 2015 3:42AM

The thing is, that shill bidding is against Ebay rules but it's practically impossible for anyone to find a place on Ebay to register a complaint. Ultimately, Ebay benefits from shill bidding because a higher price realized with a legitimate seller means a higher Ebay fee. The bottom line as a buyer is to only bid what you're willing to bid and have the composure not to raise your bid above your limit.

AUandAG · October 6, 2015 5:30AM

If you go to the "contact" at the top of the ebay pages and then click on help it brings
up a box....put in "shill" .....then it tells you that shilling is against the rules and offers
you a "contact us" option. Just did that and got through with NO wait time..got a
knowledgeable person that understood what I was telling him and just ran through
the ebay item numbers off the above info.
Let's see if it helps....

No waiting time,,,,unbelievable!!

bob

streeter · October 6, 2015 5:30AM

This particular seller with his shill bidding is right out in the open about it.
And it continues unabated with ebay offering no practical enforcement.

Shill bidding is a felony.

After the Taubman incident with Sothebys and his subsequent jail time incurred you might think that a sharp Ebay CEO would value the need for corporate responsibility. Apparently not.

19Lyds · October 6, 2015 6:18AM

Incredible detective work their Arizona!

ArizonaRareCoins · October 6, 2015 8:16AM

*****UPDATE*****

This is priceless. The ebay shiller, wholesalecoins99(241)= aka s***l(241), just cancelled his shill bid on his Wreath cent:

Bid retraction and cancellation history

Bidder Action Date of Bid and Retraction
Member Id: s***l( 241) Retracted: US $2,428.00
Bid: Oct-01-15 12:02:40 PDT
Retracted: Oct-06-15 12:34:31 PDT
1793 Wreath cent bid retraction by wholsalecoins99

wholesalecoins99(241)= aka s***l(241), just cancelled his shill bid on his 1794 Flowing cent:

Bid retraction and cancellation history

Bidder Action Date of Bid and Retraction
Member Id: s***l( 241) Retracted: US $311.00
Bid: Oct-01-15 12:02:06 PDT
Retracted: Oct-06-15 12:34:02 PDT
1794 Flowing cent bid retraction by wholesalecoins99

Somebody must have told wholesalecoins99 that we're on to him. lol

AUandAG · October 6, 2015 8:28AM

I suspect my phone call to ebay had some teeth in it. I bet they are the ones to contact
them...

bob

kaz · October 6, 2015 12:05PM

Nice job, Az rare coins, and Bob!

TigersFan2 · October 6, 2015 12:13PM

<< <i>I suspect my phone call to ebay had some teeth in it. I bet they are the ones to contact
them...

bob

>>

If Ebay is indeed involved and Ebay follows their own rules, then both accounts would be suspended. Shill bidding is one of those big "thou shalt not break" rules.

ArizonaRareCoins · October 8, 2015 11:28AM

Amazingly, s***i(242) aka wholesalecoins99(242), after being caught shilling on this 1793 Wreath cent and retracted his shill bid:

Bid retraction and cancellation history

Bidder Action Date of Bid and Retraction
Member Id: s***l( 242) Retracted: US $2,428.00
Bid: Oct-01-15 12:02:40 PDT
Retracted: Oct-06-15 12:34:31 PDT
retracted shill bid by wholesalecoins99(242) aka s***i(242)

He has again just shilled 5 times today. He really doesn't care about shilling and being caught. AMAZING

Amazingly, s***i(242) aka wholesalecoins99(242), after being caught shilling on this 1794 Flowing cent and retracted his shill bid:

Bid retraction and cancellation history

Bidder Action Date of Bid and Retraction
Member Id: s***l( 242) Retracted: US $311.00
Bid: Oct-01-15 12:02:06 PDT
Retracted: Oct-06-15 12:34:02 PDT
retracted shill bid by wholesalecoins99(242) aka s***i(242)

He has again just shilled 11 times today. He really doesn't care about shilling and being caught. AMAZING

Seriously, does Ebay not realize this is the worst case of SHILLING ever

ArizonaRareCoins · December 9, 2015 7:35AM

+++ UPDATE +++

wholsalecoins99 and his "shiller" 'smitus-icdwdre (75) aka s***i(75) Are up to their old tricks again:

1. 1793 chain cent shill:
1793 chain cent SHILLED by s***i(75) aka smitus-icdwdre(75)

2. 1793 half cent shill:
1793 half cent SHILLED by s***i(75) aka smitus-icdwdre(75)

3. 1856-s $3 Gold shill:
1856-s $3 gold SHILLED by s***i(75) aka smitus-icdwdre(75)

4. 1859 indian cent shill:
1850 cent SHILLED by s***i(75) aka smitus-icdwdre(75)

LanceNewmanOCC · December 9, 2015 8:20AM

Originally posted by: ArizonaRareCoins

+++ UPDATE +++

wholsalecoins99 and his "shiller" 'smitus-icdwdre (75) aka s***i(75) Are up to their old tricks again:

1. 1793 chain cent shill:

1793 chain cent SHILLED by s***i(75) aka smitus-icdwdre(75)

2. 1793 half cent shill:

1793 half cent SHILLED by s***i(75) aka smitus-icdwdre(75)

3. 1856-s $3 Gold shill:

1856-s $3 gold SHILLED by s***i(75) aka smitus-icdwdre(75)

4. 1859 indian cent shill:

1850 cent SHILLED by s***i(75) aka smitus-icdwdre(75)

ArizonaRareCoins · December 9, 2015 3:51PM

Do you agree that blitzdude is a great guy?

keyman64 · December 9, 2015 10:57PM

So, is eBay just as guilty of a felony here (if shill bidding is a felony) since they know about this case from Bob, refuse to stop it and quite frankly enable it? It is against eBay rules but eBay does nothing about it when they know it is happening and enables it to continue. They would be an accomplice to shill bidding in this case, would they not? Something like this could be a big news story with enough data compiled. Sure would be an interesting story to hit news outlets this time of year. eBay is enabling everyone to be ripped off, or so it seems.

joebb21 · December 10, 2015 2:44AM

worst case of shilling ever? Now I think you are getting ahead of yourself.

What about your friend neyronix- or the infamous potted plant?

ArizonaRareCoins · January 2, 2016 4:18PM

*** UPDATE ***

The seller/crook wholsalecoins99 and his co-conspirator smitus-icdwdre, have been NARU'd from eBay:

wholesalecoins99 NARU'd

smitus-icdwdre NARU'd

EagleEye · January 3, 2016 11:39AM

Great job.

Now if we can only get sellers to properly describe their coins. It is a bit deceiving to list a Pattern 1858 FE cent as a Proof regular issue.

Link

Boosibri · January 3, 2016 2:33PM

Originally posted by: EagleEye

Great job.

Now if we can only get sellers to properly describe their coins. It is a bit deceiving to list a Pattern 1858 FE cent as a Proof regular issue.

Link

That was subtle

Hydrant · January 3, 2016 3:26PM

It's all been very entertaining.

BlindedByEgo · January 3, 2016 3:43PM

Originally posted by: EagleEye

Great job.

Now if we can only get sellers to properly describe their coins. It is a bit deceiving to list a Pattern 1858 FE cent as a Proof regular issue.

Link

Interesting. What is the price implication, given the (relatively) small number of patterns made?

One would think that a coin dealer would appreciate the difference (versus, say, some guy
auctioning off his grandad's collection) - or at least highlight the difference.

OTOH, anyone dropping 3 kilobucks+ on a graded FE cent would probably not need to be told...

Christos · January 3, 2016 4:09PM

Originally posted by: EagleEye

Great job.

Now if we can only get sellers to properly describe their coins. It is a bit deceiving to list a Pattern 1858 FE cent as a Proof regular issue.

Link

Very proper.

ArizonaRareCoins · January 3, 2016 6:12PM

Originally posted by: EagleEye
Great job.

Now if we can only get sellers to properly describe their coins. It is a bit deceiving to list a Pattern 1858 FE cent as a Proof regular issue.

Link

Perhaps you should learn about coins before making yourself look stupid again in the future.....The term "(J-192) " in my description refers to the Judd listing. Learn about these things and this wont happen to you again in the future. SCHOOLED

Boosibri · January 3, 2016 8:58PM

Haha. Only 87 more posts to 100.

gonzer · January 3, 2016 10:46PM

Originally posted by: ArizonaRareCoins

Originally posted by: EagleEye

Great job.

Now if we can only get sellers to properly describe their coins. It is a bit deceiving to list a Pattern 1858 FE cent as a Proof regular issue.

Link

Perhaps you should learn about coins before making yourself look stupid again in the future.....The term "(J-192) " in my description refers to the Judd listing. Learn about these things and this wont happen to you again in the future. SCHOOLED

Is that statement directed towards Rick?

lkeigwin · January 3, 2016 11:35PM

Originally posted by: gonzer

Originally posted by: ArizonaRareCoins

Originally posted by: EagleEye

Great job.

Now if we can only get sellers to properly describe their coins. It is a bit deceiving to list a Pattern 1858 FE cent as a Proof regular issue.

Link

Perhaps you should learn about coins before making yourself look stupid again in the future.....The term "(J-192) " in my description refers to the Judd listing. Learn about these things and this wont happen to you again in the future. SCHOOLED

Is that statement directed towards Rick?

jerseycat101 · January 4, 2016 12:35AM

braddick · January 4, 2016 12:43AM

I wasn't aware eBay changed their strict policy forbidding the listing of a phone number within the auction description. It was so potential bidders wouldn't contact the seller directly and work out 'outside' arrangements.

Good to see eBay is totally lightening up on their policies to protect themselves against fee avoidance and allowing sellers to now do what was against procedure before.

jclovescoins · January 4, 2016 12:48AM

The irony here is you will probably be next to be NARU'd. Several policy violations in your listings. Why the personal vendetta against this eBay seller when you don't follow the rules yourself??

MonsterCoinz · January 4, 2016 12:56AM

Originally posted by: ArizonaRareCoins

Originally posted by: EagleEye

Great job.

Now if we can only get sellers to properly describe their coins. It is a bit deceiving to list a Pattern 1858 FE cent as a Proof regular issue.

Link

Perhaps you should learn about coins before making yourself look stupid again in the future.....The term "(J-192) " in my description refers to the Judd listing. Learn about these things and this wont happen to you again in the future. SCHOOLED

I hope you're trolling.

And if you aren't, let's get into semantics. All Judd's are patterns, but not all patterns are Judd's. Rick called it a pattern and it is. The eBay description lacks either term. Maybe you should hop into Rick's backpack and he'll take you to school for sure.

ArizonaRareCoins · January 4, 2016 1:07AM

"The eBay description lacks either term"

re-read the description and COMPREHEND:

1858 FLYING EAGLE CENT (J-192)

ArizonaRareCoins · January 4, 2016 1:11AM

Originally posted by: braddick
I wasn't aware eBay changed their strict policy forbidding the listing of a phone number within the auction description. It was so potential bidders wouldn't contact the seller directly and work out 'outside' arrangements.

Good to see eBay is totally lightening up on their policies to protect themselves against fee avoidance and allowing sellers to now do what was against procedure before.

see description

ArizonaRareCoins · January 4, 2016 1:13AM

Originally posted by: jclovescoins
The irony here is you will probably be next to be NARU'd. Several policy violations in your listings. Why the personal vendetta against this eBay seller when you don't follow the rules yourself??

Don't have any personal vendetta. I follow ebay rules as everyone must.

MonsterCoinz · January 4, 2016 1:18AM

Pardon, I meant "title".

ArizonaRareCoins · January 4, 2016 1:19AM

Originally posted by: mach1ne

Originally posted by: ArizonaRareCoins

Originally posted by: EagleEye
Great job.

Now if we can only get sellers to properly describe their coins. It is a bit deceiving to list a Pattern 1858 FE cent as a Proof regular issue.

Link

Perhaps you should learn about coins before making yourself look stupid again in the future.....The term "(J-192) " in my description refers to the Judd listing. Learn about these things and this wont happen to you again in the future. SCHOOLED

I hope you're trolling.

And if you aren't, let's get into semantics. All Judd's are patterns, but not all patterns are Judd's. Rick called it a pattern and it is. The eBay description lacks either term. Maybe you should hop into Rick's backpack and he'll take you to school for sure.

The Judd (J-192) is on the NGC holder as pictured in the listing and in bold green letters in the first line of the coins description. Perhaps you need to contact NGC and complain to them as to why the holder doesn't say "PATTERN" I described this coin exactly as NGC did.....learn to COMPREHEND

ArizonaRareCoins · January 4, 2016 1:28AM

Originally posted by: mach1ne
Pardon, I meant "title".

So you want me to put j-192 in the title....done.....so now it's in the title, description and the main picture of the holder........anywhere else you want me to state it?

jerseycat101 · January 4, 2016 1:30AM

I think "Arizona Rare Coins" was unfairly accused in this instance. The images and description clearly stated the Judd number of the coin in question.

ArizonaRareCoins · January 4, 2016 1:52AM

Originally posted by: Hydrant
It all seemed so simple and straightforward in the beginning.

You mean this thread or life in general.....lol

UPDATE A Love affair between 2 eBayers.....1793 + 1794

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**UPDATE** A Love affair between 2 eBayers.....1793 + 1794

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UPDATE A Love affair between 2 eBayers.....1793 + 1794