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What really happened at Central States?

YorkshiremanYorkshireman Posts: 4,493 ✭✭✭✭✭
I have heard two completely different views of what happened at the Central States show. Both descriptions specifically relate to Thursday.
Legend's report stated basically few were there and nothing was happening on the bourse floor.
Another dealer called me to discuss a coin he had found for me. He was slammed and could barely keep up with all the activity.
I now have a new piece for my collection!
Yes, one can make the argument that their targets for acquisition of coins are different.

What really happened on that bourse?
If you were there, please describe what you saw and did. After all, inquiring minds want to know!!
Yorkshireman,Obsessed collector of round, metallic pieces of history.Hunting for Latin American colonial portraits plus cool US & British coins.

Comments

  • ShamikaShamika Posts: 18,759 ✭✭✭✭
    I'm surprised they don't report attendance figures to take some of the subjectivity out of dealer opinions.


    Buyer and seller of vintage coin boards!
  • keyman64keyman64 Posts: 15,452 ✭✭✭✭✭
    DIMEMAN posted a thread late last night. He was there all day on Friday and said there did not seem to be many people there.
    "If it's not fun, it's not worth it." - KeyMan64
    Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners. :smile:
  • BoosibriBoosibri Posts: 11,841 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I posted a show report from Thursday here.
  • YorkshiremanYorkshireman Posts: 4,493 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Thanks for the reminder. I now remember reading that.
    Yorkshireman,Obsessed collector of round, metallic pieces of history.Hunting for Latin American colonial portraits plus cool US & British coins.
  • BoosibriBoosibri Posts: 11,841 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Thanks for the reminder. I now remember reading that. >>



    Any show report with a picture of a bottle of wine and a steak from a fancy restaurant is entirely forgettable, I know. I figured the forum would not care to see my chicken and beer with the Red Wings game in the background. image
  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 23,898 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The Legend report on the auction vs. the bourse seems to confirm that the top of the market ( the part that can afford choice, fresh coins) is alive and well while the rest of the market continues to falter.

    I didn't attend the show, but the report of weak bourse floor activity seems to be the norm for most shows these days.

    If I were actively buying today, which I am not, I would:

    1. Tighten my grading standards.

    2. Reject all problem coins.

    Based on what I see on this board when "guess the grade" posts appear, it seems that most participants on this board are far too easy when it comes to grading and have trouble identifying coins that have been cleaned or have altered surfaces.
    All glory is fleeting.
  • BoosibriBoosibri Posts: 11,841 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>The Legend report on the auction vs. the bourse seems to confirm that the top of the market ( the part that can afford choice, fresh coins) is alive and well while the rest of the market continues to falter.

    I didn't attend the show, but the report of weak bourse floor activity seems to be the norm for most shows these days.

    If I were actively buying today, which I am not, I would:

    1. Tighten my grading standards.

    2. Reject all problem coins.

    Based on what I see on this board when "guess the grade" posts appear, it seems that most participants on this board are far too easy when it comes to grading and have trouble identifying coins that have been cleaned or have altered surfaces. >>



    I just didn't see a lot of really choice collector coins on the bourse. I think that the middle of the market is actually quite strong but the availability of really nice EF/AU better dates in series which are in demand just aren't available on the market, and when they are they last minutes or go to customers with a strong relationship with the dealer and never make it to the public.

    Find an EF/AU Civil War Seated Quarter, EF/AU Barbers, nice branch mint gold, the list goes on.
  • YorkshiremanYorkshireman Posts: 4,493 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Thanks for the reminder. I now remember reading that. >>



    Any show report with a picture of a bottle of wine and a steak from a fancy restaurant is entirely forgettable, I know. I figured the forum would not care to see my chicken and beer with the Red Wings game in the background. image >>



    You are a funny guy!

    The ONLY reason I will look at the "Wine & a Steak" report is to see you.
    The rest of that regularly published report is a royal waste of time in which I am amazed people actually compliment the author for having done.
    Yorkshireman,Obsessed collector of round, metallic pieces of history.Hunting for Latin American colonial portraits plus cool US & British coins.
  • coinkatcoinkat Posts: 22,721 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It all depends on what you are selling and what you are looking for.

    Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.

  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 23,898 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>The Legend report on the auction vs. the bourse seems to confirm that the top of the market ( the part that can afford choice, fresh coins) is alive and well while the rest of the market continues to falter.

    I didn't attend the show, but the report of weak bourse floor activity seems to be the norm for most shows these days.

    If I were actively buying today, which I am not, I would:

    1. Tighten my grading standards.

    2. Reject all problem coins.

    Based on what I see on this board when "guess the grade" posts appear, it seems that most participants on this board are far too easy when it comes to grading and have trouble identifying coins that have been cleaned or have altered surfaces. >>



    I just didn't see a lot of really choice collector coins on the bourse. I think that the middle of the market is actually quite strong but the availability of really nice EF/AU better dates in series which are in demand just aren't available on the market, and when they are they last minutes or go to customers with a strong relationship with the dealer and never make it to the public.

    Find an EF/AU Civil War Seated Quarter, EF/AU Barbers, nice branch mint gold, the list goes on. >>



    There NEVER were a large number of problem-free EF-AU Seated Quarters, etc. available. These coins were underrated for years and many of those that do exist have been hoarded over the past 35-40 years. When I think back to my Seated Quarter collection of the 1980's I will have to admit that it did have a number of problem coins in it because the problem-free ones just weren't around (or were unaffordable).
    All glory is fleeting.
  • ARCOARCO Posts: 4,305 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Here is what happened for me:

    The coins I was selling didn't fetch the prices I paid when I bought a few years back on Heritage.

    The coins I wanted, were the same coins that everyone else seemed to want.


    Now if go forward a few years --

    The coins that I and others wanted so badly at this Central States show, will be the very coins that no one else wants when I go to sell. image

    Tyler
  • machoponchomachoponcho Posts: 355 ✭✭✭
    I went on Friday from 11am to 2pm. Not much activity on the bourse. There were almost as many people behind tables as there were in the aisles. I had attended this show in 2012 and in 2009, I believe, and there was definitely more buzz on both of those occasions.
    I have existed since the creation of this world and will exist until its end. Only my form will change. For these 80 human life years, I have the benefit of having a functioning body and consciousness. I will not waste this opportunity.
  • keyman64keyman64 Posts: 15,452 ✭✭✭✭✭
    At 1PM the auctions started each day so maybe that was where all of the action was...pulling people off of the bourse floor.
    "If it's not fun, it's not worth it." - KeyMan64
    Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners. :smile:
  • rkfishrkfish Posts: 2,617 ✭✭✭
    At 1PM the auctions started each day so maybe that was where all of the action was...pulling people off of the bourse floor.

    Don't think so........I was there Wed-Fri and to be honest......I've done more biz at my local one day shows with 25-40 dealers.
    Steve

    Check out my PQ selection of Morgan & Peace Dollars, and more at:
    WWW.PQDOLLARS.COM or WWW.GILBERTCOINS.COM
  • jdimmickjdimmick Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    See, that's funny because the dealers I talked with said they were doing fairly well.
  • shorecollshorecoll Posts: 5,445 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Aren't we still in the phase of people scraping nickels for Pogue. I know if I was, the only way I could do that was to make sure I didn't even look at anything else.
    ANA-LM, NBS, EAC
  • MidLifeCrisisMidLifeCrisis Posts: 10,504 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I just didn't see a lot of really choice collector coins on the bourse. I think that the middle of the market is actually quite strong but the availability of really nice EF/AU better dates in series which are in demand just aren't available on the market, and when they are they last minutes or go to customers with a strong relationship with the dealer and never make it to the public. >>


    I don't see anything wrong with this.
  • SmEagle1795SmEagle1795 Posts: 2,135 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Thursday was extremely quiet, Friday wasn't much louder. However, I did see a good number of attractive coins on the floor, largely consisting of coins which had been recently sold at auction, bought by dealers. There were several nice early gold pieces (at the "usual" dealers, particularly so at Doug Winter) and a number of compelling colonials. I don't know how anyone could complain about not enough nice coins being on the bourse when there were two, count 'em, two NE Shillings, one in PCGS AU55 and one in PCGS XF45 CAC, both reasonably priced.

    The number of Pine Tree Shillings was far higher than I've ever seen, there were also two bar cents, XF details and AU50 CAC and a Continental Currency silver dollar in XF45.

    While I'm not buying US/Colonial at the moment, it was certainly an enjoyable show for viewing!
    Learn about our world's shared history told through the first millennium of coinage: Colosseo Collection
  • TomBTomB Posts: 20,697 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>I just didn't see a lot of really choice collector coins on the bourse. I think that the middle of the market is actually quite strong but the availability of really nice EF/AU better dates in series which are in demand just aren't available on the market, and when they are they last minutes or go to customers with a strong relationship with the dealer and never make it to the public. >>


    I don't see anything wrong with this. >>



    The above has been my experience over the last two or three years and it has been a growing trend. Also a growing trend has been the absence at shows of many of those folks who look for these coins and I imagine it is due to the lack of success and ability to check near-instant inventory updates on the internet.
    Thomas Bush Numismatics & Numismatic Photography

    In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson

    image
  • coinkatcoinkat Posts: 22,721 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The surviving population for EF-AU that are original continues to dwindle... this has been the trend for years.

    Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.

  • bidaskbidask Posts: 13,834 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I attended Friday only. While there was no buzz coins were being sold. I stopped by Brian Greer's table and he said he was having a good show.

    Most cases ( about 80% to me looked the same) with Morgans, Franklins , Commems, Walkers for sale,

    It was a decent day to buy some gold bullion type commems with gold being down that day pretty big.

    What was outstanding was viewing some Pogue coins at the Stack's table and the Trompeter proof gold 5 libertys that will go up for
    auction at this year summer ANA that was at the Heritage booth I think.

    Also a shoutout to Heritage as they agreed to image 80 of my better coins from my collection.....which I delivered to them and the main
    reason I came. Then I can show you guys some pics.😀

    I also fulfilled my 8 platinum submissions thru PCGS including 5 crossovers and some nice raw 8 escudos.

    I did not have enough time to get around to everyone.... but chatted with Andy Lustig, Doug Winter, Jose and Julie at Legend table, Todd Imhoff, and some nice people at Stack's.

    I bought my first medal......a tribute medal to General Ulysses Grant , really high relief , struck in Switzerland in 1868 by Hughes Bovy in nice unc.

    I had a good time. 😊



    I manage money. I earn money. I save money .
    I give away money. I collect money.
    I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.




  • Shrub68Shrub68 Posts: 201 ✭✭✭
    Very slow show. Probably the slowest one in the last 20 years for me.
  • fcloudfcloud Posts: 12,133 ✭✭✭✭
    I was only able to make it there today (Saturday). I would say about 1/3 of the dealers were already gone, and there wasn't much activity that I saw. I went over and introduced myself to Charmy, talked with Larry S a bit, a quick high to Greg A, and talked with Jon (dimeman) for a while.

    President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay

  • RegulatedRegulated Posts: 2,983 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Central States has been my favorite show for years, but this one was definitely mixed. Set up was strong and by Thursday morning I had sold well into six figures - mostly middle-of-the-road stuff that I wholesaled out, but a few nicer pieces tool. The auction was stellar in my opinion; plenty of real coins were available to those of us who understand that in five years we'll all be looking back wishing we'd spent more money on great coins when they could be bought.

    Friday was weak - I made a few retail sales, but hours went by when you could have fired a cannon down the aisle without hitting anything but a stray dealer.

    That being said, I think what we're seeing is a combination of a market that has been burnt to the ground by too many big shows (How many times can we do Rosemont or Schaumburg? It's getting ridiculous...), and one where most collectors can buy online safely and easily. The industry could probably halve the number of major shows, and we would all be better off...
    David McCarthy - Kagin's - IG: X_COINNERD_X

    What is now proved was once only imagined. - William Blake
  • BoosibriBoosibri Posts: 11,841 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Central States has been my favorite show for years, but this one was definitely mixed. Set up was strong and by Thursday morning I had sold well into six figures - mostly middle-of-the-road stuff that I wholesaled out, but a few nicer pieces tool. The auction was stellar in my opinion; plenty of real coins were available to those of us who understand that in five years we'll all be looking back wishing we'd spent more money on great coins when they could be bought. >>



    Very well may be the case.
  • MICHAELDIXONMICHAELDIXON Posts: 6,373 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I flew from Baltimore to Chicago Friday morning to promote The National Battlefield Coin Show™ to the dealers at Central States. I arrived early and the doors opened to the public at 9:50am. The attendance was light and I had plenty of choices for parking. I walked the floor, handed out flyers and talked to many of the dealers. It was mixed as to whether it was a good show or not, and most dealers I talked with had not had a good show. I left for lunch around 1pm, returned around 2 and walked the bourse looking for a nice, circulated 1876 CC Seated dime. Several were there, but not the VF quality I wanted. I bought a circ 1947 D Walker and a sterling silver sombrero for a necklace. The dealer I bought the sombrero from said I was his first sale of the show. He had jewelry, bullion and type coins. I left around 3:30, returned my rental car and flew back to Baltimore.

    For an established show, I was disappointed. The exhibit area was almost as large as the bourse floor, and I expected to see a massive attendance.
    Spring National Battlefield Coin Show is April 12-13, 2024 at the Eisenhower Hotel in Gettysburg, PA. WWW.AmericasCoinShows.com
  • morgandollar1878morgandollar1878 Posts: 4,006 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It would be nice if they would move it around to different cities like they used to, instead of having it stuck in the Chicago area all the time.image
    Instagram: nomad_numismatics
  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,794 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It's hearsay. But a few of the coins I can find on ebay if you guys, who were there shopping or dealing would please pm me your "ebay addresses". I like perusing when I can't make shows, just the same.
    That's kind of like reverse spam so forgive me for trespassing.
  • ShamikaShamika Posts: 18,759 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>It would be nice if they would move it around to different cities like they used to, instead of having it stuck in the Chicago area all the time.image >>



    AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    You know, there are rumors that there are collectors living in places other than Long Beach, Baltimore, Chicago, and Orlando. And I may be wrong, but I would think dealers would like to mix it up as well.





    Buyer and seller of vintage coin boards!
  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 23,892 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Aren't we still in the phase of people scraping nickels for Pogue?

    There are probably less than 100 people in the world who expect to spend money at the upcoming Pogue sale, and a fair number of those people will not be straining their budgets.

    For the rest of us, it's business as usual.

    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think what we're seeing is a combination of a market that has been burnt to the ground by too many big shows (How many times can we do Rosemont or Schaumburg? It's getting ridiculous...), and one where most collectors can buy online safely and easily. The industry could probably halve the number of major shows, and we would all be better off...

    this sounds like a good summation.

    while everything has been happy, happy for the past decade+ as PM's rose and the best-of-the-best came up for sale at the next big auction and the next great show it has to end sometime. competition is always a good thing but I have maintained for years that there are just too many shows, too many dealers and too many auctions. to the point made by morgandollar1878, I think it would be good for everyone and increase attendance if they moved the ANA Shows around a little bit, also. I live in Ohio and I know that everyone is sensitive to the Tax issue here and in other States, but an organization such as the ANA should be able to do something to alleviate that problem for 3-5 day event that will bring literally $20+ million dollars(my estimate). if a State like New York can give a 10 year abatement to new businesses the ANA should be able to do something.
  • YorkshiremanYorkshireman Posts: 4,493 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Aren't we still in the phase of people scraping nickels for Pogue?

    There are probably less than 100 people in the world who expect to spend money at the upcoming Pogue sale, and a fair number of those people will not be straining their budgets.

    For the rest of us, it's business as usual. >>



    The 100 number might not be right, but certainly all but a very few that love coins can afford to compete for a Pogue specimen.
    Yorkshireman,Obsessed collector of round, metallic pieces of history.Hunting for Latin American colonial portraits plus cool US & British coins.
  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 23,892 ✭✭✭✭✭
    There are probably less than 100 people in the world who expect to spend money at the upcoming Pogue sale, and a fair number of those people will not be straining their budgets.

    For the rest of us, it's business as usual. >>


    The 100 number might not be right, but certainly all but a very few that love coins can afford to compete for a Pogue specimen.



    Well, I can at least guaranty that no more than 128 people will actually buy a coin at the first Pogue sale. (There are only 128 coins in the sale.)
    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Central States to me has always been more about the auction than the show. It's not FUN, it's not Long Beach, it's not Baltimore. And it does seem to be the case that for the past 10-15 years the auctions are becoming more and more the focal point of the bigger shows. Isn't Central States the show where the rare coin bull market collapsed in 1980?
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • AnalystAnalyst Posts: 1,438 ✭✭✭

    Roadrunner: <<"Fresh" is the word...again. >>

    While it is true that some of the fresh material, especially the NOC consignment of gold rarities, did really well at the CSNS auction, the stale material did not do badly in the Platinum Night event. Many stale coins realized around the same amounts as the respective coins realized in auctions over the past two years. I did not perceive significant evidence that price levels for rarities are falling. Indeed, it is a success for a stale coin to bring approximately the same price that it did within the previous twelve months.

    Rare U.S. Gold & Silver Coins Sell Well in Central States Auction

    insightful10@gmail.com
    "In order to understand the scarce coins that you own or see, you must learn about coins that you cannot afford." -Me
  • ShamikaShamika Posts: 18,759 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>How many times can we do Rosemont or Schaumburg? It's getting ridiculous >>



    And there it is, straight my a coin dealer's mouth. Not sure who actually organizes these shows, but I hope they are reading threads like this.

    Also, these shows won't find new blood unless they venture out into new locations.


    Buyer and seller of vintage coin boards!
  • AnalystAnalyst Posts: 1,438 ✭✭✭

    Regulated: <<The auction was stellar in my opinion; plenty of real coins ...>>

    I have said that there were excellent and otherwise important coins in this auction. I do not understand, though, what Regulated means by "real coins."

    Regulated: << ... were available to those of us who understand that in five years we'll all be looking back wishing we'd spent more money on great coins when they could be bought.

    So, is it being predicted by Regulated that the "real coins" in this auction will dramatically rise in value over the next five years? Please explain.

    Regulated: <<How many times can we do Rosemont or Schaumburg? It's getting ridiculous..>>

    Shamika: << Not sure who actually organizes these shows, but I hope they are reading threads like this.>>


    I think that Rosemont is an excellent location. Although Chicago is the third largest city in the nation and the surrounding area is well populated, it is a good idea for either the ANA or the CSNS conventions to be in Rosemont, but not both in the same twelve month period. During a year that the ANA is in Rosemont, the CSNS convention could be in Cleveland, Cincinnati or Columbus. Ohio is centrally located and one of the most populated States in the region.

    Schaumburg is not a good choice. Before a CSNS convention was held there, I had never heard of it. Schaumburg is much farther from the airport than Rosemont and there are fewer hotels & motels. Rosemont is much more accessible and is almost an extension of Chicago.

    Also, new collectors may be uncomfortable about providing personal info to organizations and businesses that they know little about. It is best not to ask them for ID or for their home addresses. Show registration should require names only.


    Rare U.S. Gold & Silver Coins Sell Well in Central States Auction

    "In order to understand the scarce coins that you own or see, you must learn about coins that you cannot afford." -Me

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