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Yes/No? Buffalo nickels are one of the toughest series to grade?

ManorcourtmanManorcourtman Posts: 7,891 ✭✭✭✭
Does anyone else find that Buff nicks are one of the toughest series to grade? I'd argue that the differences between 58 and 63 can be almost impossible to detect, especially when the coin is weakly struck!! Post a confusing Buff if you have one!! Experts feel free to chime in with grading hints!

Comments

  • david3142david3142 Posts: 3,388 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Agreed. Massive strike differences can make grading tricky all the way down into the lower circulated grades. Someone recently posted an MS63 buffalo with a partial date. I have seen MS coins in person with VF detail on the reverse. The obverse can frequently also be found weak and mushy, particularly on mid-20s branch mint coins.
  • keyman64keyman64 Posts: 15,452 ✭✭✭✭✭
    ABSOLUTELY!...when you get into the AU58 or higher grades anyway.
    "If it's not fun, it's not worth it." - KeyMan64
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  • AMRCAMRC Posts: 4,266 ✭✭✭✭✭
    For me it is the inclused gold.
    MLAeBayNumismatics: "The greatest hobby in the world!"
  • Only in non mint state examples.

    I'm thinking some early copper is a lot harder to grade.
  • jcpingjcping Posts: 2,649 ✭✭✭


    << <i>For me it is the inclused gold. >>



    +1, these little indian gold coins are challenge to grade image
    an SLQ and Ike dollars lover
  • CuKevinCuKevin Posts: 1,690 ✭✭✭✭
    I agree! Incused gold being a close second.
    Choice Numismatics www.ChoiceCoin.com

    CN eBay

    All of my collection is in a safe deposit box!
  • hchcoinhchcoin Posts: 4,825 ✭✭✭✭✭
    A definite yes !!!! I am humbled and amazed when I try to grade buffalo nickels. It seems like every date has a different grading standard image
  • TopographicOceansTopographicOceans Posts: 6,535 ✭✭✭✭
    Definitely for me.
  • FullHornFullHorn Posts: 1,124 ✭✭✭✭✭
    imageimage
  • koynekwestkoynekwest Posts: 10,048 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes indeed!
  • joeykoinsjoeykoins Posts: 14,787 ✭✭✭✭✭
    In a word, YES!image

    "Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!

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  • ShamikaShamika Posts: 18,759 ✭✭✭✭
    The trick (not really a trick) is to know the strike characteristics of each date/mm. There are 64 date/mm combinations. Once you have this down, grading is much easier to figure out.


    But it's still hard as hell.


    Buyer and seller of vintage coin boards!
  • MoldnutMoldnut Posts: 3,082 ✭✭✭✭
    I agree with them being hard to grade the weak strikes. Not to mention that most don't want to pay UNC money for a coin that looks VF.
    Derek

    EAC 6024
  • koynekwestkoynekwest Posts: 10,048 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Not just the strike-coins from worn out dies complicate the issue as much as and maybe more than the strike.
  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 23,898 ✭✭✭✭✭
    True. The other non-gold series that is difficult to grade is Standing Liberty Quarters.

    My own guideline is simple:

    If in doubt, it goes to the lower grade. Strike does matter. Weakly struck coins DON'T deserve the benefit of the doubt.
    All glory is fleeting.
  • BUFFNIXXBUFFNIXX Posts: 2,700 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I bought a 1937-p buff from a local coin dealer for 10 bucks. So nice I thought it had
    a lock on ms66. Sent it to pcgs and it comes back an ms64! So after all these years
    I still have a hard time grading these coins. Yes, they can be a problem.
    Collector of Buffalo Nickels and other 20th century United States Coinage
    a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
  • BoosibriBoosibri Posts: 11,839 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>For me it is the inclused gold. >>



    image
  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Buffs are definitely a challenge.... so many variables (as mentioned above). Still, a great series and an interesting challenge for those who enjoy coins...Cheers, RickO
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,427 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I would say that the Standing Liberty Quarter is harder. I seldom agree with what most people call EF and AU. To me they look like they are over graded by a full grade.
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • koynekwestkoynekwest Posts: 10,048 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The 1935-D pictured above is an example of both a weak strike AND a worn die. Many of the substandard coins in this series suffer from this combination.
  • tahoe98tahoe98 Posts: 11,388 ✭✭✭


    << <i>The trick (not really a trick) is to know the strike characteristics of each date/mm. There are 64 date/mm combinations. Once you have this down, grading is much easier to figure out.


    But it's still hard as hell. >>



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  • tahoe98tahoe98 Posts: 11,388 ✭✭✭


    << <i>True. The other non-gold series that is difficult to grade is Standing Liberty Quarters.

    My own guideline is simple:

    If in doubt, it goes to the lower grade. Strike does matter. Weakly struck coins DON'T deserve the benefit of the doubt. >>



    ...image
    "government is not reason, it is not eloquence-it is a force! like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master; never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action." George Washington
  • david3142david3142 Posts: 3,388 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I will also agree that SLQs are hard to grade. However, I only own a few of them so I don't have the same experience as I do with buffaloes (of which I own a complete set).
    That 1935-D posted looks like an XF63 image
    My buffalo set is mostly circulated (as that was all I could afford in my early 20s) so I got to be very good at grading G-VF coins. I had absolutely no clue about MS coins. I am better with those now, but they can still be tricky at times, particularly with weak strikes/worn dies as others have mentioned.
  • rec78rec78 Posts: 5,675 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Agree-- because of strike and some dates just don't wear like others and some are low detail to begin with but I can tell a vf from a vf. My most difficult to grade series is walking liberty halves I can't tell a vg from a vf sometimes. But then I do not have much interest in walking liberty halves and have not studied the series to be a successful grader of them. Also Peace dollars. Again, If you don't have much interest in a series, It will be tougher to grade because you don't want to spent the time learning to grade them properly. JMHO...


    Bob
    image
  • OverdateOverdate Posts: 6,902 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I would expect that the toughest to grade would be weakly struck, lightly circulated buffaloes. Once the luster is gone, how would you tell whether a coin is a weak strike XF or an average strike VF? And how would you convince a buyer to pay up for the former?

    My Adolph A. Weinman signature :)

  • johnny9434johnny9434 Posts: 27,411 ✭✭✭✭✭
    always had trouble grading them here.
  • winkywinky Posts: 1,671
    Yes it is. I have to have someone else to get a good grade on Buff's, just tough to grade. Also one of the most beautiful coins.
  • crazyhounddogcrazyhounddog Posts: 13,776 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes they are and that's why I love em.
    The bitterness of "Poor Quality" is remembered long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
  • coinkatcoinkat Posts: 22,719 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Its all about understanding the series

    Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.

  • gripgrip Posts: 9,962 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>For me it is the inclused gold. >>



    image
  • DeepCoinDeepCoin Posts: 2,781 ✭✭✭
    I am also in the camp of inclused gold. I almost typed incurred, as it bedevils me. That is not to say that Buffs are easy, they are right up there in terms of hard to grade.
    Retired United States Mint guy, now working on an Everyman Type Set.
  • RonyahskiRonyahski Posts: 3,116 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Grading Buffs got a lot easier for me after taking an ANA seminar with Bill Fivaz. A couple of his tips: the first place he looks to for wear is the high point of the upper hind quarters of the buffalo. The first place he looks to for strike is the separation of the hair braids in the ponytail.

    Another vote for incused gold. I want to collect the series, but have little confidence in being able to grade them. Working on it.
    Some refer to overgraded slabs as Coffins. I like to think of them as Happy Coins.
  • david3142david3142 Posts: 3,388 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I was looking through Heritage's internet sale and thought this would be a great example for this thread. Either the dies were too far apart on this and/or it was VERY weakly struck:

    1929-D MS61

    Otherwise it seems to have nice color and be relatively mark-free.
  • machoponchomachoponcho Posts: 355 ✭✭✭
    Totally agree with OP. Flat luster makes 58 and lower MS nearly indistinguishable. Market reflects this. There are auction results of certain AU58 Buffs, even AU55, that are more in line with MS62/63 prices.
    I have existed since the creation of this world and will exist until its end. Only my form will change. For these 80 human life years, I have the benefit of having a functioning body and consciousness. I will not waste this opportunity.
  • BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭
    No... Shield nickels are tougher image
    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
  • crazyhounddogcrazyhounddog Posts: 13,776 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>For me it is the inclused gold. >>



    image >>



    For any gold series of coins I'll agree 100%.....image
    The bitterness of "Poor Quality" is remembered long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
  • DIMEMANDIMEMAN Posts: 22,403 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I agree Buff's then Standing Quarters.
  • au58au58 Posts: 1,288 ✭✭✭
    In order:
    Incused gold
    Standing Liberty Quarters
    Buffalo Nickels
  • segojasegoja Posts: 6,112 ✭✭✭✭
    Buffalos are a neat series with lots of nuances.

    Many other series with nuances, but they can be figured out if you take the time to study the series closely.
    JMSCoins Website Link


    Ike Specialist

    Finest Toned Ike I've Ever Seen, been looking since 1986

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  • crazyhounddogcrazyhounddog Posts: 13,776 ✭✭✭✭✭
    imageimage
    imageimage

    And I find them irresistible......image
    The bitterness of "Poor Quality" is remembered long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.

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