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How forgiving are you on rarity flaws?

lkeigwinlkeigwin Posts: 16,885 ✭✭✭✭✭
I was talking with some other forum members and mentioned this R5 I bought recently. I got past the tiny pin scratch but I wonder if others would.

How forgiving are you?
Lance.

imageimage

Comments

  • GoldbullyGoldbully Posts: 16,823 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Dear son, I obsolve you of your sin.

    Now go and say 10 Hail Marys.

    That is one gorgeous extreme toned R5.
    image
  • BarndogBarndog Posts: 20,454 ✭✭✭✭✭
  • oih82w8oih82w8 Posts: 11,869 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Surprising enough I zeroed right in on it without reading your message...it sure is pretty though.

    Toss-up.
    oih82w8 = Oh I Hate To Wait _defectus patientia_aka...Dr. Defecto - Curator of RMO's

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  • 410a410a Posts: 1,325
    .....I have in the past and after awhile they begin to bother me and then I tend to sell the coin and move on. You have a nice coin there and the eye appealing color offsets the scratch and balances the coin nicely. So, I'd be holding that one quite a bit longer. image
  • Timbuk3Timbuk3 Posts: 11,658 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Sweet, I like it !!! image
    Timbuk3
  • How is a coin with a mintage of 1,559,000 considered an R5?

    Nevertheless, it is a sweet coin.
  • GoldbullyGoldbully Posts: 16,823 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>It's absolve.

    OK, I feel pretty dumb...image Great standout CBH, Lance!!

    I too could overlook that scratch! Nice pickup. >>

  • WalkerfanWalkerfan Posts: 8,897 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I would be a little bothered by that scratch. To buy it I would expect it to at least straight grade, though.

    “I may not believe in myself but I believe in what I’m doing” ~Jimmy Page~

    My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947)

    https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/

  • NumisOxideNumisOxide Posts: 10,984 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Doesn't bother me on that coin!
  • CuKevinCuKevin Posts: 1,690 ✭✭✭✭
    No coin is without its flaws. You either learn to live with them or collect none at all.

    To answer the question, I would forgive that scratch on that coin. I probablywould if it were on a different coin also.
    Choice Numismatics www.ChoiceCoin.com

    CN eBay

    All of my collection is in a safe deposit box!
  • CuKevinCuKevin Posts: 1,690 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>How is a coin with a mintage of 1,559,000 considered an R5?

    Nevertheless, it is a sweet coin. >>



    The variety is the R5, at least that's what I understand.
    Choice Numismatics www.ChoiceCoin.com

    CN eBay

    All of my collection is in a safe deposit box!
  • BustHalfBrianBustHalfBrian Posts: 4,119 ✭✭✭
    That's a tough die state at R4+, and you couldn't ask for a prettier example. The scratch doesn't bother me much.
    Lurking and learning since 2010. Full-time professional numismatist.
  • lasvegasteddylasvegasteddy Posts: 10,408 ✭✭✭
    the toning really helps
    it wouldn't bother me at all though

    that's one gorgeous 1822 there

    if and when ya go to sell
    tell those pointing it out to go find other examples of 1822's to look at if it bugs them that much image
    everything in life is but merely on loan to us by our appreciation....lose your appreciation and see


  • jayPemjayPem Posts: 4,023 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It's interesting that the scratch and the die crack appear very similar on this one. To the untrained eye, they would look pretty much the same.
    Funny how the die crack is cool, and the scratch is not image

    To answer the question, the higher the coins grade, the more flaws begin to bug me.
  • silverpopsilverpop Posts: 6,591 ✭✭✭✭✭
    nice coin, not a big fan of the toning

    i'd forgive the flaws a coin but only if they make the coin Interesting
  • mozinmozin Posts: 8,755 ✭✭✭
    If PCGS graded this coin, I could live with the pin scratch. If not, I would pass on the coin. I do not buy Details coins.

    Looks to me to be PCGS 58. Beautiful coin.
    I collect Capped Bust series by variety in PCGS AU/MS grades.
  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 23,898 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The scratch, while hidden somewhat by the obverse toning, is in a key visual area. I would pass on the coin. This is not the time to be buying problem coins.

    All glory is fleeting.
  • TreashuntTreashunt Posts: 6,747 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I recently also picked up an R-5 with a similar scratch, I'll live with it

    Nice pick up
    Frank

    BHNC #203

  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 45,301 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>The scratch, while hidden somewhat by the obverse toning, is in a key visual area. I would pass on the coin. This is not the time to be buying problem coins. >>



    I have to agree with this. Also, that toning looks too good to be true. Looks AT to me but it's probably MA to most collectors.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.

  • lunytune2lunytune2 Posts: 1,077 ✭✭✭
    I will buy a low mintage or low survival rate coin with flaws because you may never have the opertunity again. (As long as we are not breaking the bank too bad) if you find a graded one , you buy it , and sell the flawed one.
  • I already have a couple of coins with scratches so I guess I'm in the "live with it crowd" but they seem to bug me to after a while. It is toned over though which sure helps.
  • coinlieutenantcoinlieutenant Posts: 9,305 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I have a hard time with it Lance. Just the way I am I guess.

    John
  • ms70ms70 Posts: 13,946 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I scale my forgiveness on not just rarity but also on if it's something I'll ever be able to afford otherwise.

    Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.

  • Walkerguy21DWalkerguy21D Posts: 11,115 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Lance, I just spent four figures on an 1804 Large Cent in a genny holder - if that answers your question image

    Successful BST transactions with 170 members. Recent: Tonedeaf, Shane6596, Piano1, Ikenefic, RG, PCGSPhoto, stman, Don'tTelltheWife, Boosibri, Ron1968, snowequities, VTchaser, jrt103, SurfinxHI, 78saen, bp777, FHC, RYK, JTHawaii, Opportunity, Kliao, bigtime36, skanderbeg, split37, thebigeng, acloco, Toninginthblood, OKCC, braddick, Coinflip, robcool, fastfreddie, tightbudget, DBSTrader2, nickelsciolist, relaxn, Eagle eye, soldi, silverman68, ElKevvo, sawyerjosh, Schmitz7, talkingwalnut2, konsole, sharkman987, sniocsu, comma, jesbroken, David1234, biosolar, Sullykerry, Moldnut, erwindoc, MichaelDixon, GotTheBug
  • LogPotatoLogPotato Posts: 2,172 ✭✭✭✭
    It would bother me.
  • winkywinky Posts: 1,671
    It's too pretty not to forgive. Great job on this one. image
  • ashelandasheland Posts: 22,612 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I can usually overlook a small scratch...
    It's when you ask, "what happened?" That's when it's too much for me.
    You coins looks fine!
  • My first glance: Stunning toning, nice lustre...with an obverse scratch.
    Can I live with it? Yes, probably for quite a while....unless one day I locate a problem free example that is "nice looking and problem free".
    It has a pin scratch....
    It still looks beautiful. Most can overlook this? Probably.
    It's in a PCGS slab, they must have been ok with it. Should probably leave it in a slab.
    If you have to ask others....there may be some doubt?
    It's an R-5. Are there "other" nice ones out there? (In other words, what does the rest of the population look like?
    Are nice, problem free coins "significantly" higher in price?
    It has a scratch....It's on the obverse.
    I take this coin home...and every time I look at it, I see a scratch and a wonderful tone.
    Over the years, I learned to put more emphasis with a coins surface. In the old days I used to overlook surface distractions on beautifully toned coins, unless it was an R-6 rarity.
    These days I generally pass on coins with scratches unless the price seemed fair, then later I find myself selling it because I locate a piece that is problem free.
    All in all, your coin looks pretty wicked. If YOU can live with it then it's ok. It only becomes a money concern when selling.
    I hope I wrote this in a way not to offend - it is not my intention.
    By the way, in every collection I have ever seen... There were issues with some.
    Note to add: I will say, I'd much rather have your example than 80% of other coins with scratches.

    Persuing choice countermarked coinage on 2 reales.

    Enjoyed numismatic conversations with Eric P. Newman, Dave Akers, Jules Reiver, David Davis, Russ Logan, John McCloskey, Kirk Gorman, W. David Perkins...
  • some problems bother me more than others but I collect coins and I take them how I can get them.
  • dogwooddogwood Posts: 1,935 ✭✭✭✭
    I bought a raw 1849o quarter at a B&M as a VF last year.
    It had 3 obv rim nicks- one of which was quite visible to the eye.
    I didn't care in the least, it was solid and original and rare.
    Besides, you couldn't see the rim issue in the Whitman album set I was building.
    Then I sent it in to PCGS. Big mistake.
    It came back XF40.
    I can't see the rim nicks anymore. Coin has a new owner.
    We're all born MS70. I'm about a Fine 15 right now.
  • JRoccoJRocco Posts: 14,277 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I love collecting coins.
    Do I want to only collect perfect coins.... I don't think so. That would be boring as heck. The only determining factor would then be the size of my checkbook and how many dealers I have in my address book.
    I would even take a Brasher doubloon that someone had the nerve to stamp their initials into...wink wink.

    If I want a coin I value and pay for what I think the coin is worth in the condition it happens to be in.
    Some coins are just plain "Interesting"
  • CoinJunkieCoinJunkie Posts: 8,772 ✭✭✭✭✭
    As scratches go, that one bothers me less than most. Still and all, I'd likely pass
    on the coin unless it was discounted.
  • shorecollshorecoll Posts: 5,445 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I am way less tolerant than I have been in the past, but I would definitely take that one. I have some R-5's that are way worse than that one. I would only buy one today at a decent discount, but I think the look of yours would override most of that thought.
    ANA-LM, NBS, EAC
  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'd take it. I'm partial to 1822 bust halves, especially pretty ones. An 1822 was the very first bust half I ever owned....and that was also an AU.
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,427 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It depends upon what kind of rarity you are considering. If you are buying a "rare" key date, like a 1909-S-VDB cent or an 1893-S dollar, one should be very concerned about scratches and defects because it can be a bone of contention when it comes time to sell. Items like this can be found without the problems and those coins that have defects are not as desirable.

    When it comes to truly rare die varieties, sometimes you have to take what you can get. If there really are fewer than 75 examples known of a given variety, you might wait a long time before another one might become available to you. Therefore you might be more forgiving, but it should never be ignored.
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • TopographicOceansTopographicOceans Posts: 6,535 ✭✭✭✭
    Bill gave the perfect answer.
  • Agree with Bill's comment and add as the dollar amount (cost) goes down and rarity goes up, I become more tolerant.
    Would anyone pass at $10? (extreme example) I would not, things are relative and not always black and white, a lot of gray.
  • jdillanejdillane Posts: 2,362 ✭✭✭
    hiccough induced double post...
  • jdillanejdillane Posts: 2,362 ✭✭✭
    Old toned over pin scratch. Not an issue for me. I wouldn't ignore it but it wouldn't prevent me from enjoying the coin. There is plenty to enjoy with her IMO.

    Staple scratches on the other hand drive me bonkers.

    I have an 1806 bust half with AU meat and nice luster with a long cut into the field right of the bust. I imagine it may have been a crude authentication with a knife. While I'll never know for sure, I'm still appeased. I also have a fair amount of holed bust halves and dollars and imagine those holes served an important purpose in their time so I make allowances.
  • lavalava Posts: 3,286 ✭✭✭
    Here are a few of my opinions, right or wrong.

    For the purists out there, I have news for you: PCGS is net grading. Like it or not, coins with smaller problems will likely end up net graded. Since many of us are trained to trust the subjective opinion of PCGS, and PCGS insures the grade, I suppose there is nothing unfair or deceptive about this. The problem is factored in, presumably lowering the grade, and presumably lowering the price, the insured value, and the risk to PCGS.

    Coins with bigger problems should end up in genuine/details holders, in which case the price should be a fraction of a graded coin, even a net graded one. I may or may not have an issue a with problem coin. It is a coin by coin decision. If the coin still appeals to me, I may be a buyer provided the price is adjusted. I do have a problem with people selling problem coins and pricing them as though the problems aren't there. That's nut factor 6.

    On another note, many of us grade based on the coin in hand, and we put less stock in what can't be plainly seen. Look at CBHs under a microscope and you'll find lots of issues, including the classic "X" scratched to test if the coin was genuine silver. I've grown accustomed to seeing these with regularity, and oftentimes the coins do not even appear to have been net graded.

    For me, I think I rely more on a gut feeling whether a coin has problems that are distracting. I prefer my coins to have a lot of eye appeal, and if an appealing coin has eye appeal but a major problem, I'd expect a major discount on price.

    On Lance's coin that prompted this post, that is not a major problem. This is exactly the kind of coin that PCGS has been regularly net grading. It seems like the market is becoming increasing accepting of this fact.
    I brake for ear bars.
  • GrumpyEdGrumpyEd Posts: 4,749 ✭✭✭
    We're talking about the 2 lines?
    If that's the "scratch" they both seem to start and end oddly.
    Both end right at the bust but I'd think a pin would have hit the higher relief and dug in not ended right at the bust.
    On the other end one starts at a star and didn't seem to hit the star, the other starts just past the rim and I'm not sure I see it on the star it passes. Are we 100% sure those are not on the die?
    (yes I'm sure I'm wrong or others would have pointed it out LOL)

    Those just seem odd as pin scratches on the coin. Am I looking at the wrong things?

    If that's the issue, whatever they are.... it does not bother me that much because the toning hides it somewhat and we're looking at a huge picture. In hand I think they would be less noticed and the toning is pretty!
    Ed
  • lavalava Posts: 3,286 ✭✭✭
    I'm not sure if the various posters have the same concerns.

    This is a O-103a variety, featuring a die crack through star 6. There is also a crack through the date that is characteristic of this die state. The problem scratch of note is on the obverse through star 4. The mark above the top olive leaf may also be a problem, especially if it is a minor drill hole. (I've seen PCGS graded examples of those as well).
    I brake for ear bars.
  • GrumpyEdGrumpyEd Posts: 4,749 ✭✭✭


    << <i>This is a O-103a variety, featuring a die crack through star 6. There is also a crack through the date that is characteristic of this die state. The problem scratch of note is on the obverse through star 4. The mark above the top olive leaf may also be a problem, especially if it is a minor drill hole. (I've seen PCGS graded examples of those as well). >>



    Thanks lava! image

    They both (star 4 and 6) looked like possible die scratches or cracks to me.
    Ed
  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,796 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I forgive you for spending your money how you want . image
  • telephoto1telephoto1 Posts: 4,713 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>The scratch, while hidden somewhat by the obverse toning, is in a key visual area. I would pass on the coin. This is not the time to be buying problem coins. >>



    I have to agree with this. Also, that toning looks too good to be true. Looks AT to me but it's probably MA to most collectors. >>



    AGREE. I didn't want to be the first to say it... but IMO that toning is there to hide the scratch. AT

    RIP Mom- 1932-2012
  • johnny9434johnny9434 Posts: 27,411 ✭✭✭✭✭
    nice coin ( im not to sure about the scratch thou ) just saying for now

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