Mandatory 6-month returns if you accept PayPal
coinpictures
Posts: 5,345 ✭✭✭
https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/ua/upcoming-policies-full
Effective Date: November 18, 2014
We encourage you to carefully review this Policy Update to familiarize yourself with all of the changes that are being made to the PayPal User Agreement. These updates will be posted at least 30 days prior to their effective date. These changes will not apply retroactively and will become effective November 18, 2014. If you use PayPal after the date these changes become effective, we will take that usage as your consent to the changed terms.
Dispute Filing Window
We’re increasing the time for buyers to file a merchandise dispute (Item Not Received and Significantly Not as Described) from 45 days to 180 days. All references in the User Agreement to “Opening a Dispute within 45 days” have been updated to reflect “Opening a Dispute within 180 days.” The Sections these changes appear include the Introduction, 3.15, 13.2 and 13.5.
Ouch.
Effective Date: November 18, 2014
We encourage you to carefully review this Policy Update to familiarize yourself with all of the changes that are being made to the PayPal User Agreement. These updates will be posted at least 30 days prior to their effective date. These changes will not apply retroactively and will become effective November 18, 2014. If you use PayPal after the date these changes become effective, we will take that usage as your consent to the changed terms.
Dispute Filing Window
We’re increasing the time for buyers to file a merchandise dispute (Item Not Received and Significantly Not as Described) from 45 days to 180 days. All references in the User Agreement to “Opening a Dispute within 45 days” have been updated to reflect “Opening a Dispute within 180 days.” The Sections these changes appear include the Introduction, 3.15, 13.2 and 13.5.
Ouch.
0
Comments
<< <i>
Effective Date: November 18, 2014
Dispute Filing Window
We’re increasing the time for buyers to file a merchandise dispute (Item Not Received and Significantly Not as Described) from 45 days to 180 days. All references in the User Agreement to “Opening a Dispute within 45 days” have been updated to reflect “Opening a Dispute within 180 days.” The Sections these changes appear include the Introduction, 3.15, 13.2 and 13.5.
Ouch. >>
That's just crazy....If you cant figure out if you received your package or if it's not as described with in 45 days...there is something very wrong with you...this new policy just opens the door to ABUSE!!
<< <i>https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/ua/upcoming-policies-full
Effective Date: November 18, 2014
We encourage you to carefully review this Policy Update to familiarize yourself with all of the changes that are being made to the PayPal User Agreement. These updates will be posted at least 30 days prior to their effective date. These changes will not apply retroactively and will become effective November 18, 2014. If you use PayPal after the date these changes become effective, we will take that usage as your consent to the changed terms.
Dispute Filing Window
We’re increasing the time for buyers to file a merchandise dispute (Item Not Received and Significantly Not as Described) from 45 days to 180 days. All references in the User Agreement to “Opening a Dispute within 45 days” have been updated to reflect “Opening a Dispute within 180 days.” The Sections these changes appear include the Introduction, 3.15, 13.2 and 13.5.
Ouch. >>
I can see it now in the event of a precious metals down move..."my gold is worth nowhere near as much as I bought it for 5 months ago, I want my money back!"
<< <i>
<< <i>https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/ua/upcoming-policies-full
Effective Date: November 18, 2014
We encourage you to carefully review this Policy Update to familiarize yourself with all of the changes that are being made to the PayPal User Agreement. These updates will be posted at least 30 days prior to their effective date. These changes will not apply retroactively and will become effective November 18, 2014. If you use PayPal after the date these changes become effective, we will take that usage as your consent to the changed terms.
Dispute Filing Window
We’re increasing the time for buyers to file a merchandise dispute (Item Not Received and Significantly Not as Described) from 45 days to 180 days. All references in the User Agreement to “Opening a Dispute within 45 days” have been updated to reflect “Opening a Dispute within 180 days.” The Sections these changes appear include the Introduction, 3.15, 13.2 and 13.5.
Ouch. >>
I can see it now in the event of a precious metals down move..."my gold is worth nowhere near as much as I bought it for 5 months ago, I want my money back!" >>
It will be difficult for those that purchased bullion, unless it turns out to be plated and not .999, to use the "Not as described" reason for a dispute.
"Item Not Received and Significantly Not as Described"
1/2 Cents
U.S. Revenue Stamps
<< <i>
<< <i>
I can see it now in the event of a precious metals down move..."my gold is worth nowhere near as much as I bought it for 5 months ago, I want my money back!" >>
It will be difficult for those that purchased bullion, unless it turns out to be plated and not .999, to use the "Not as described" reason for a dispute.
"Item Not Received and Significantly Not as Described" >>
Not at all. The 'buyer' needs to nothing but claim SNAD and the seller is obligated to repay - and you may not get the item back (see below). When silver dropped by $15 in April and May of a couple of years ago, I had to accept about 20 returns for SNAD that were a month to 6 weeks old sales. I'm getting returns now because of a 10% drop in silver.
This is singularly the most important clause on that page:
Further, if you lose a SNAD Claim because we, in our sole discretion, reasonably believe the item you sold is counterfeit, you will be required to provide a full refund to the buyer and you will not receive the item back (it will be destroyed). PayPal Seller protection will not cover your liability.[i/]
<< <i>Not at all. The 'buyer' needs to nothing but claim SNAD and the seller is obligated to repay - and you may not get the item back (see below). When silver dropped by $15 in April and May of a couple of years ago, I had to accept about 20 returns for SNAD that were a month to 6 weeks old sales. I'm getting returns now because of a 10% drop in silver. >>
Beautiful.....now if we can get something like this in place for the stock market, I'll have it made
<< <i>It opens the door for buyers of raw coins to have the coins TPGed and then if they don't like the grade, crack it out and return it... >>
Heck with that! I'll buy your beautiful $2000 slabbed coin, shop it around for months, and when the info is gone from feepay after 90 days I'll claim a SNAD. Hell, I may even claim it's counterfeit and keep it.
Can you imagine the crapfest that will take place in bullion sales if there's no carve-out for sellers in there?
These new draconian measures are not suitable for coin & bullion sales - at all. Time for a new venue!
"Not as described" is a fallacy , in terms with numismatics. I can't grade by the number (VF 20 and VF 35)
A ______ penny is a _______ penny. Fill in the blank …. Does that make "cents" ? And WHO is left holding the bag ? Not ebay, not buyers….
The recycling center !
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars
Latin American Collection
1. eBay is supposed to be increasing the length of time that completed auctions will be visible online, in conjunction with PayPal's change in policy. This has NOT been published anywhere.
2. Regarding USPS's current tracking retention period, the drone put me on hold for 10 minutes while she spoke with a supervisor and came back with "Uhhh... they're still working out all the details on the new policy, but rest assured that it will be fair to sellers."
Oy vey. My guess is that nobody at PayPal ever even bothered to check and see how long USPS tracking remains online before publishing this policy change.
To confirm the data retention, I went back and entered in some old tracking numbers from packages I sent over the past 6 months. It looks like it's longer than I originally thought, but not a full 6 months. Most of the packages sent in April still show tracking information at USPS, but none of the ones from March show up at all, and the last 2 weeks of March would be included under the new dispute window.
EDIT: I know that the new dispute window is not retroactive. My point is that if the USPS only makes available 5.5 months of tracking data online, sellers will b vulnerable to nonreceipt claims filed in the last 2 weeks of the 6-month window, as by that time the tracking information may no longer be available online.
1/2 Cents
U.S. Revenue Stamps
<< <i>I guess Nov 17 I will be pulling all my ebay listings down, >>
At this point, Roger Goodell would do a better job running Ebay/Paypal.
<< <i>Doesn't this also tie in with eBay making it more difficult to have counterfeits pulled? If the community chasing bad sellers is losing power, it may take longer for people to figure out they bought a counterfeit. >>
Seems like the policy should apply only to counterfeit items. Wonder what they will accept as proof that the item is counterfeit. Will they require the seller to reimburse the buyer for their expenses incurred in verifying the item's authenticity or lack thereof?
MY COINS FOR SALE AT https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/other/bajjerfans-coins-sale/3876
<< <i>2. Regarding USPS's current tracking retention period, the drone put me on hold for 10 minutes while she spoke with a supervisor and came back with "Uhhh... they're still working out all the details on the new policy, but rest assured that it will be fair to sellers." >>
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars
<< <i>
<< <i>Doesn't this also tie in with eBay making it more difficult to have counterfeits pulled? If the community chasing bad sellers is losing power, it may take longer for people to figure out they bought a counterfeit. >>
Seems like the policy should apply only to counterfeit items. Wonder what they will accept as proof that the item is counterfeit. Will they require the seller to reimburse the buyer for their expenses incurred in verifying the item's authenticity or lack thereof? >>
You may find someone "returning" a known counterfeit they bought at a flea market in place of the real item they received.
The longer you drag out a return period the more likely problem sales are going to crop up. Today's 1 or 2% will turn into 3 to 5%.
Imagine selling new electronic items that people decide they no longer want after 5 months of regular heavy use. I may never have to "own" a cell phone again!
<< <i>
<< <i>Doesn't this also tie in with eBay making it more difficult to have counterfeits pulled? If the community chasing bad sellers is losing power, it may take longer for people to figure out they bought a counterfeit. >>
Seems like the policy should apply only to counterfeit items. Wonder what they will accept as proof that the item is counterfeit. Will they require the seller to reimburse the buyer for their expenses incurred in verifying the item's authenticity or lack thereof? >>
Used to be that selling counterfeits was illegal. I thought.
Now I guess it is OK if you disclose it as such..and if the U.S. Government does not want it. I think.
If the value of a coin sold is above a certain dollar value, (say 100 dollars) then perhaps it should be up to the seller to make certain that they are not selling anyone a fake without first disclosing it.
If a buyer then needs some time to verify the authenticity of the purchase, they should be afforded a reasonable amount of time to get it checked out.
If the coin is a fake, the seller should be the one to pay for the authentication, and return fees.
Nobody needs the headaches of fakes.
This latest change goes beyond any absurdity that I could possibly have imagined... even for eBay.
PayPal extend UK buyer protection to 180 days
And the PP UK policy is even more liberal, allowing 'intangible goods', while the PP US link cited by the OP excludes intangibles goods from the 180 day policy - for now.
UK PP expanded buyer protection policy
It's only going to get worse, folks!
<< <i>I hope someone comes along and starts a new and better eBay. Maybe like eBay was when it started. >>
+ 100,000,000 ebay users
I've been reasonably open-minded about the periodic changes to eBay and I haven't been to bothered by it..... until now. This one does it for me. There's no way I'm going to put up with nonsense 6 months down the road. At some point a "done deal" needs to be a "done deal." I guess I'll just save up and do a big sale via auction house once or twice a year to move dupes. No more eBay for me......
DP
<< <i>Forum is acting weird again.
DP >>
<< <i>Wow.
I've been reasonably open-minded about the periodic changes to eBay and I haven't been to bothered by it..... until now. This one does it for me. There's no way I'm going to put up with nonsense 6 months down the road. At some point a "done deal" needs to be a "done deal." I guess I'll just save up and do a big sale via auction house once or twice a year to move dupes. No more eBay for me...... >>
And it's not just feepay. How about all of the ten of thousands of merchants that begrudgingly accept PayPal on their own sites. My processor reviewed my terms of sale, and agreed to back me. PP is now the decider on how independents are going to conduct bizness? I don't think so...
<< <i>Crazyness, I can see more people opening cases through PayPal and circumventing the ebay system. >>
people using the items ..then returning to buy something else .. especially if the item drops in value.. sellers need a strong sell price or this
<< <i>I stopped selling on eBay several years ago due to changing policies and change-a-minute fee structures. Nothing I have seen since makes me want to go back even slightly.
This latest change goes beyond any absurdity that I could possibly have imagined... even for eBay. >>
Exactly my situation and thoughts.
Is this eBay or PayPal? GC takes PayPal also.
<< <i>Some people eat a whole meal at a restaurant , then complain loudly just for a free meal. This policy doesn't surprise me in the world in which we now live. >>
I had a BIL who did that. Always griped and wanted a price break AFTER he ate the evidence.
MY COINS FOR SALE AT https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/other/bajjerfans-coins-sale/3876
<< <i>This isn't for returns, it's for SNAD, or when a seller strings you along past the 45 day period to keep your money.
Y'all are way overreacting. I'm pretty sure if you buy a bunch of gold and gold prices drop 15% in that time frame, having a case opened by your buyer will not result in any action being taken against you. >>
If something ends up not being worth what you paid for it, isn't that a SNAD?
MY COINS FOR SALE AT https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/other/bajjerfans-coins-sale/3876
DPOTD-3
'Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery'
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Don
<< <i>Where are those Great Collections forms I had?
Is this eBay or PayPal? GC takes PayPal also. >>
This is a PayPal policy, not an eBay Policy, so yes, GC transactions as well as BST transactions would be affected.
1/2 Cents
U.S. Revenue Stamps
<< <i>If a buyer leaves positive feedback, then 3 months later decides to return the item, can he? >>
Yes. Feedback is not considered binding.
1/2 Cents
U.S. Revenue Stamps
<< <i>
<< <i>Where are those Great Collections forms I had?
Is this eBay or PayPal? GC takes PayPal also. >>
This is a PayPal policy, not an eBay Policy, so yes, GC transactions as well as BST transactions would be affected. >>
Well this is interesting. Heritage also takes Paypal. From a consignor perspective, would the auction-houses have to withhold payment for 6 months until all the dust settles??