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Mint Lost 55 Million
ScarsdaleCoin
Posts: 5,187 ✭✭✭✭✭
Just saw in the WSJ today that the Mint lost 55 Million making 1c last year with the cost of each cent around 1.82 cents to make.....thought it interesting....what do you think?
Jon Lerner - Scarsdale Coin - www.CoinHelp.com
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Comments
<< <i>Try making them out of aluminum. >>
Aluminium can be copper plated but it would be cool to have non-plated ones as well.
As for aluminum, the mint has already said there is no other metal choice for the cent.
Aluminum, Iron and Zinc have comparable costs with no other metals cheaper. So, changing to another metal from the Zincoln is not an option.
What if the gov't made each cent worth three? Would that do it?
Lance.
One of these will last longer
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
The mint loses more money with employees taking bathroom breaks every day.
Real productivity starts with the scent.
<< <i>How many cents do you figure are stashed away...sitting in jars and buckets? What would it take to circulate them again, and stop minting more for years (or forever)?
What if the gov't made each cent worth three? Would that do it?
Lance. >>
I blame the forum member who has those HUGE barrels full of Wheaties in his garage
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>Most of the cost comes from cost of production and distribution, not actual metal costs. IIRC, you could make them out of paper and it would still cost more than 1c to make them. >>
Let's make the metal cost high so the rest of the "cost of goods sold" is low.
FY2013 cent cost of goods sold - $0.0156 per cent.
During FY2013 zinc was never $1 per pound, but under instead. Today it is about $1.03. Coinflation shows a metal value of $0.005958 per cent. My neglect of the copper variance should be apparent already.
1.56 cents minus 0.60 cents is 0.96 cents. Then there is the SG&A overhead of $0.0025 and distribution to the Fed Res of $0.0002
All of this adds to over 1 cent for 1 cent.
If metal were donated, they couldn't make and distribute them for under 1 cent.
<< <i>The WSJ missed the other half of the story -- the nickel lost $49.5 million in FY2013. The FY ends the end of Sept. The nickel costs 9.41 cents to make and distribute to the FRBs.
As for aluminum, the mint has already said there is no other metal choice for the cent.
Aluminum, Iron and Zinc have comparable costs with no other metals cheaper. So, changing to another metal from the Zincoln is not an option. >>
I also said make them smaller, maybe 3c silver size. At that size they should not be confused with dimes.
The size change may not or may be addressed in their every other year report to congress. I haven't looked, but the report is generally for composition evaluation. There will be a new report this year.
Stop producing the cent and nickel
Instead produce them under contract for wal-mart and McDonald's who would be allowed to advertise on them.
The Sam Walton Cent and the Ronald McDonald Nickel!
Instead of $50 million in losses each year -- each -- maybe we could swing $50 million in advertising profits per year!
We're saved!
Sure, it's clear the Mint could profit a little more if they ditched the cent and nickel, but in comparison to the total US budget the numbers are fairly insignificant. The role of the Mint is to produce coinage to facilitate commerce... not to make a profit. Also can't think of too many other government agencies that make a profit so even if the Mint just broke even at the end of the day they're miles ahead of the rest of the government.
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 448
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
<< <i>Here's an offensive idea :
Stop producing the cent and nickel
Instead produce them under contract for wal-mart and McDonald's who would be allowed to advertise on them.
The Sam Walton Cent and the Ronald McDonald Nickel!
Instead of $50 million in losses each year -- each -- maybe we could swing $50 million in advertising profits per year!
We're saved! >>
Hey, why limit it to the big Corps?
Why not just let people send in a photograph of themselves.
You pay for the production of x number of pennies and we will put you on them.
We could call them Vanity cents, or maybe Trumps.
Imagine a "The Donald" coin. We could gold plate those ones.
They could advertise them on HSN and FOX.
It would be as close as he will ever get to actually being on one.
Advertising on the nations coinage would just validate to the American people we are a corporatocracy.
Box of 20
The US Mint is one of the few quasi Federal Agencies, that shows a profit on their books and does not require "Stimulus Money."
Swallow our pride and follow the lead of the Canadians, stop using 1c, make coins out of stainless steel (looks great and lasts forever). add the $1 & $2 coins while weaning off the $1 bill.
can make the cent for less than the cost of one cent if they really wanted to. I'm sure there are lots of shear political reasons they lose money on it.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
<< <i>Sure, it's clear the Mint could profit a little more if they ditched the cent and nickel, but in comparison to the total US budget the numbers are fairly insignificant. >>
A million here, a million there...pretty soon, we're talking about real money.
Need we say it again?
Get rid of the penny and the nickel (when people stop leaning over to pick them off the ground, that's when you stop making them). Get rid of the paper dollar, while you're at it.
Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...
<< <i>I'm shorting Coinstar. >>
lol
<< <i>
Get rid of the penny and the nickel (when people stop leaning over to pick them off the ground, that's when you stop making them). >>
You'd think a government would be embarrased to have its money littering
the streets. Can you imagine the reaction of ancient emperors to learning
that coins with their own bust on them weren't worth picking up? They'd pro-
bably execute the head of the mint.
It's a wonder religious folks aren't up in arms about the "Godlessness" of hav-
ing the Lord's name littering streets. Leave it off a few dollars inadvertantly
and they go ballistic but intentionally make coins so worthless that they litter
everything and this is OK.
Maybe we need to start a rumor that spreading worthless coins about is a first
step in taking IGWT off the coins.
I'd change the nickel to aluminum and within a few years of rationalizing the
coinage system I'd shrink its size. Recalling the old large aluminum and cu/ ni
five cent coins would pay for the transitions.
Pennies need to be recalled for proper disposal. The remaining copper in cir-
circulation will nearly pay the cost for this.
8 Reales Madness Collection
<< <i>I think one of the problems is that the Mint is just another jobs program and reducing production means reducing staff and heaven forbid that a government job goes away. >>
I'll think your 100% right.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>Save 50% mint them every other year for starters. >>
That would boost the popularity of mint sets in the non-production years.
The life span of a one dollar bill is less than 1 year. For a modern dollar coin, its 20 years. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that one out. But you can go online and see politician after politician feed us line after line of total BS telling us why the paper dollar must still exist. It should make everyone VERY angry that our tax dollars are being wasted like this.
Then again, how many dollars a day are we p_ssing away in Afghanistan? Its makes the money being wasted on unneeded coinage seem like chump change.
After a trillion dollars and thousands of lives spent fighting terror, how was a group called ISIS able to become so powerful? Who's in charge here !!!!
They call me "Pack the Ripper"
<< <i>As long as the lobby money flows, nothing will change. This is the only reason we still have the paper dollar, the nickel and the penny.
The life span of a one dollar bill is less than 1 year. For a modern dollar coin, its 20 years. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that one out. But you can go online and see politician after politician feed us line after line of total BS telling us why the paper dollar must still exist. It should make everyone VERY angry that our tax dollars are being wasted like this.
Then again, how many dollars a day are we p_ssing away in Afghanistan? Its makes the money being wasted on unneeded coinage seem like chump change.
After a trillion dollars and thousands of lives spent fighting terror, how was a group called ISIS able to become so powerful? Who's in charge here !!!! >>
Follow the Money.
<< <i>When you understand that it is not the mint that loses $55M it is only the US citizen that loses $55M. >>
But there are roughly 319 million of us sharing that bill... so it's really only costing each of us about 17 cents per year for the Mint to keep producing cents
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 448
outweighs any lose they may incur from making 1c and 5c coins.
<< <i>Like other have said, in essence, the story is misleading when the fact is, the profit margin of the mint surely
outweighs any lose they may incur from making 1c and 5c coins. >>
Maybe if there profit margins were better they could sell their collector coins for less.
First things first...they whine about how it costs more than a cent to make a cent and more than a nickel to make a nickel - but the workhorse of our coin economy is the quarter, and it only costs a few cents to make those. Same thing for dimes. They are still making profitable seniorage on those, what ever happened to cost-averaging?
Second thing...we are WAY past due in getting rid of the cent. It makes NO logical sense to keep them. End of story, find something else to do, make, or whatever to keep jobs. Pennies are NOT the answer any more.
Nickels could be made of nickel plated copper, or better yet - clad! They could probably be made with quarter stock cut into nickel blanks. Softer, cheaper to make, and they already have the stock! They are all worried about vending machines and the electronic signature being wrong...umm, hullo? Most things in vending machines are multiples of 25 cents now. People don't USE nickels and dimes in vending machines (majority, anyway).
Our country is mired in red tape about getting rid of the $1 note, the cent, making billions of coins that will NEVER be spent (half dollars, dollars)...it's a joke. Honestly, laughing stock of the world.
The Lincoln cent store:
http://www.lincolncent.com
My numismatic art work:
http://www.cdaughtrey.com
USAF veteran, 1986-1996 :: support our troops - the American way.
They used to make sales tax tokens for the purpose of making change in 1/10¢ and 1/2¢ denominations.
I don't see any difference now. The only reason we need a cent is to make change with the added sales tax that states impose.
<< <i>.....the workhorse of our coin economy is the quarter, and it only costs a few cents to make those. Same thing for dimes. They are still making profitable seniorage on those, what ever happened to cost-averaging? >>
Excellent point.
I really don't know what the problem is that so many people have with the cent. I am 100% against rounding. Don't try to convince me this is a good idea because in the end the
consumer will NEVER win and always get screwed a few cents at a time. I say keep the penny and put somebody competent in charge to find a way to make it profitable. Additionally
from a collector's standpoint, I think cents are important to the hobby. It's likely that almost every kid that becomes a collector started with cents. JMO.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
<< <i>Just saw in the WSJ today that the Mint lost 55 Million making 1c last year with the cost of each cent around 1.82 cents to make.....thought it interesting....what do you think? >>
I think that this needs to make National News.
Could you imagine the our cry if a government official made off with 55 Million Dollars?
What about a 55 Million Dollar Bank Heist?
How about a 55 Million Dollar Home for a US Senator?
The name is LEE!
Who says they're supposed to profit from making each coin, it's nice if they do but I don't think it was the intention. In the past when coins were silver or gold or large copper cents, the metal plus manufacturing cost probably didn't make much of a profit. Consider that the coins didn't last forever, after a few years they got whatever was left of the coins back and spent money again to make fresh new coins and that repeats as coins wear out. They profit on bills but in reality making bills or coins isn't done to profit, it's done to allow commerce then they get tax from the commerce. Their job should be making what is needed for commerce as cheaply as possible.
I doubt they truly make a profit on any of the NCLT that they make so much of now. It's all in the accounting methods. Most things even baseball or Kennedy gold coins are low mintage and short lived. By the time they buy the metal blanks that eats most of the gross. If they say they "profit" I bet they're not truly including all of the real costs like a private company would consider. Their workers making dies and running the mint get good pay and benefits and healthcare and pensions. They probably assume they have a workforce and the mints buildings and presses for circulating coins and NCLT is gravy. In reality a private company would probably slash the workforce, merge into one bigger mint and focus on their real high volume job of making coins for commerce. Look at the real costs of these things, mint people going to shows and setting up shipping and orders and dealing with returns. Congress wasting their time to make bills and vote on what NCLT to make next if we include those costs? This is the government, it cost them billions to set up a non functional website for healthcare. I'd hate to see how much they spend on their website and artists and photography and die making and equipment and consider that in the past they only made circulating coins and needed no website and sold the proofs and mintsets by cheapo post card order forms. They don't need to market coins so they don't need frequent re-designs like the quarters which I'm sure cost a lot for every new design.
I'm sure people will say they "profit" on stuff but I seriously doubt it. Compare what they do with how efficiently a no pork system would get the same job done. It's not a question of profit on individual coins, it's a question of how much they spend to get their core job done. They could eliminate cents and nickels which would probably reduce half (or more) of the total coins needed and mothball or close everything but one mint and get their core job done for much less money. The only benefit of the way they do it now is it keeps industry happy by using metals and employs some workers in non-essential jobs like a job program but it costs a lot to do it. Using the word "profit" for anything they do is a joke.