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My 1835 Classic Head Gold $2.50 came back from PCGS Genuine 92...Cleaning, AU Details

GoldbullyGoldbully Posts: 16,823 ✭✭✭✭✭
image

There are hair lines in the fields, however you need a high X loupe to see them.....what am I missing here?
I took the coin to a reputable dealer, and he had to use a microscope to see the flaws.
I really love the look of this one in hand

Zoom In Here

Comments

  • AUandAGAUandAG Posts: 24,515 ✭✭✭✭✭
    My experience has been when you see a halo around the stars, it's been cleaned. Maybe retoned later.

    Not often you see halos on a non cleaned coin.

    bobimage
    Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), bobinvegas1989@yahoo.com
  • PQueuePQueue Posts: 901 ✭✭✭
    Goldbully,
    your Classic Head looks good in your pics, but we all know one has to see it in hand.

    RE:
    My experience has been when you see a halo around the stars, it's been cleaned. Maybe retoned later.
    Not often you see halos on a non cleaned coin.


    Not true at all on gold!

    AUandAG, do you own any pre-1900 dated gold?
  • Maybe the color is off some. I had a couple of silver coins come back as cleaned with no hairlines at all but the color was off a little.
  • mercurydimeguymercurydimeguy Posts: 4,625 ✭✭✭✭
    TrueView are worthless when it comes to grading coins from photos. They are art, not coin photography.

    It's ironic that I started a thread a little earlier today about this very topic and now you post this...

    My take after looking at a lot of early gold, grading it is very subjective. It's more about the look than technical details. They might just not like your coin (today) and you have to accept that, not everyone's taste is the same. They might like it tomorrow (crack it out and send back in)...but if it comes back cleaned after 3 tries, maybe that's a sign that they just don't like the coin? If you do, keep it, if you don't, sell it.

    Be happy, and enjoy, that's the most important thing.
  • OriginalDanOriginalDan Posts: 3,713 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Do you see any smooth/shiny/glossy high points?

    Remember that cleaning doesn't only apply to the fields.
  • BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Goldbully, Looks like a nice coin that should straight grade...

    So if you don't agree with the details grade crack it and have someone else submit it for you.



    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!


  • << <i>Goldbully, Looks like a nice coin that should straight grade...

    So if you don't agree with the details grade crack it and have someone else submit it for you. >>



    Looks a little brassy but I agree that it should make it one of these submissions.
  • jdimmickjdimmick Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Biggest question I have, was it sent in with good gradeable stuff, or sent it with questionable coins or other no grade's ?

    I do not send in my good coins or coins on the fence with customers dreck / questionable stuff, there is a reason!

  • GoldbullyGoldbully Posts: 16,823 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Biggest question I have, was it sent in with good gradeable stuff, or sent it with questionable coins or other no grade's ?

    I do not send in my good coins or coins on the fence with customers dreck / questionable stuff, there is a reason! >>



    It was a 5 coin submission, the other 4 coins were raw CBH's.....all graded.
  • CasmanCasman Posts: 3,935 ✭✭


    << <i>Goldbully, Looks like a nice coin that should straight grade...

    So if you don't agree with the details grade crack it and have someone else submit it for you. >>




    Why would he have someone else submit it for him?

  • BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Why would he have someone else submit it for him? >>



    Better chance to straight grade as it's not on record for having been net graded.
    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,793 ✭✭✭✭✭
    A beautiful specimen under close scrutiny, clearly. Still a desirable piece in my eyes.
  • Walkerguy21DWalkerguy21D Posts: 11,114 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The slightly darker, patchy areas on both sides are the only thing I see a questionable (the halo affect around the stars is one area, as someone pointed out), like something was done to give it a subtle toned appearance.

    That said, it's still a nice looking coin, and I've seen worse coins straight graded - well, in NGC slabs, anyway.




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  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,793 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>image

    There are hair lines in the fields, however you need a high X loupe to see them.....what am I missing here?
    I took the coin to a reputable dealer, and he had to use a microscope to see the flaws.
    I really love the look of this one in hand

    Zoom In Here >>



    image
    image

    Believe me brother, …. try again, and again if you must.
  • kazkaz Posts: 9,052 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The whole "cleaned" thing is very subjective, imo. Your coin looks very nice to me.
  • stevebensteveben Posts: 4,595 ✭✭✭✭✭
    i think the coin looks really nice. the only thing i see is that maybe they think it's been smoothed on the high points...but that could be the strike. it doesn't look cleaned to me...but maybe it has to be seen in hand.
  • how many circulated gold coins from the 1800s have not been cleaned, washed, wiped, rubbed or some other during that life span.
  • VanHalenVanHalen Posts: 3,787 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I've seen a lot worse in problem-free plastic but the right obverse field likely bagged it. Not that bad but the hairlines are hard to miss.

    image
  • BoosibriBoosibri Posts: 11,839 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Do you see any smooth/shiny/glossy high points?

    Remember that cleaning doesn't only apply to the fields. >>



    This was my thought as well
  • stealerstealer Posts: 3,968 ✭✭✭✭
    Cleaning has nothing to do with the presence of hairlines and everything to do with the look of the coin. Tip: stop looking for hairlines and start looking at the coin.

    To me, that coin (from the TrueView) has the classic look of a cleaned coin.
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,427 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I don't see "the classic look of a cleaned coin" on the True View picture. The might be something wrong with the fields on the reverse above the eagle's head, but it does not jump out at you in the photo. As others have said, some of these True View pictures seem to have a bit of "art" involved with them. The 1834 $5 gold that someone posted earlier looked cleaned to me.

    Here some Classic quarter eagles, two original IMO, one worked on. They all got grades from PCGS.

    Graded MS-62

    imageimage

    Graded AU-55

    imageimage

    Graded AU-50. This one is not original.

    imageimage

    And I foregot ... This one is graded AU-58, and I think that it is original in bright yellow gold ...

    imageimage
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • GoldbullyGoldbully Posts: 16,823 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Thanks Bill for the comparable images.

    I appreciate all the comments and suggestions from the valued forum folks.


    I don't see "the classic look of a cleaned coin" on the True View picture.

    Do Classic Heads that are cleaned have a "classic look of a cleaned coin?" image
  • JRoccoJRocco Posts: 14,277 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hey GB
    With gold being such a soft metal, I always forgive some small abrasion lines that need magnification to see.
    When gold is cleaned it usually tells you so.
    Your coin looks like it should grade clean IMO.
    Nice coin.
    Some coins are just plain "Interesting"
  • I actually really like the look of your coin.
    Secondly, the several different looking layers of surface, and lighter halos around the stars suggest an original coin.
    That is of course your coin does have the same appearance in person as it does the picture.
  • stealerstealer Posts: 3,968 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Thanks Bill for the comparable images.

    I appreciate all the comments and suggestions from the valued forum folks.


    I don't see "the classic look of a cleaned coin" on the True View picture.

    Do Classic Heads that are cleaned have a "classic look of a cleaned coin?" image >>


    *shrug*, I was simply offering my opinion. I can always take it elsewhere, though.
  • BoosibriBoosibri Posts: 11,839 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I suppose I go for a different look than most. An example of what I think is an AU Classic $2.5 with original skin. AU55 CAC
    image
  • RonyahskiRonyahski Posts: 3,116 ✭✭✭✭✭
    First Answer - no way to tell for sure from a picture, any picture, especially a true view.

    Second Answer- following up on this comment:



    << <i>Do you see any smooth/shiny/glossy high points?

    Remember that cleaning doesn't only apply to the fields. >>



    I like the look of the coin in the picture. But if I had to find something, I would question the toning at the highest points on the obverse. The highest points (hair curls near face, curls on top of head, points of stars) look to have a copper orange toning over lighter surfaces, perhaps caused by those areas being cleaned/wiped and then retoned over. The higher areas right next to those highest spots, however, have a darker crusty look. Perhaps this indicates a cleaning of the highest points on the obverse.

    You don't see nearly as much of the same on the reverse. In fact, the higher areas on the reverse look more crusty than toned over.




    Edited: I hit Enter before I finished.
    Some refer to overgraded slabs as Coffins. I like to think of them as Happy Coins.


  • << <i>I suppose I go for a different look than most. An example of what I think is an AU Classic $2.5 with original skin. AU55 CAC
    image >>



    Goldbully's coin looks more original than this coin, IMHO.
  • GoldbullyGoldbully Posts: 16,823 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Thanks for your support and kind words, CoinZealot.
    You're making my Genuine Classic Gold $2.50 think one day he could be gradable. image
  • CoinspongeCoinsponge Posts: 3,927 ✭✭✭
    If I had my way setting up grading standards I would allow a grade assignment on any coin and just note that it was cleaned if that was the case. I think too many nice coins are relegated to coin limbo because they have some cleaning and are not assigned a grade. It just seems to me that there are various levels of cleaning from slight to harsh.
    Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,793 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Whoa…. I will take any classic heads that are unloved. Genuine, cleaned, hairlines, … ex jewelry. No spam intended. I'll even trade my brand new never touched HOF gold for them. image I can't believe I'm talking like this in public.
  • BaleyBaley Posts: 22,658 ✭✭✭✭✭
    that coin is relatively problem-free. I dislike the binary "slab or genuine" line because it's arbitrary and wish all coins were just net graded by experts in relative values and given proportional values.. oh, wait, that's what eventually happens when a coin like this gets resubmitted once or four times by the right people with the right set up coins

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

  • kazkaz Posts: 9,052 ✭✭✭✭✭
    You know, I actually liked the concept behind DGS when DLRC started their grading service, namely that all coins received a grade but comments on the label referencing problems and their degree ("light cleaning" for example). Unfortunately, the recession hit, eBay would not recognize DGS, and I think the market wanted something less complicated.

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