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WHAT IS UNIQUE ABOUT THIS BUFFALO ? 1919 MS63

THIS 1919 BUFFALO MS63 JUST SOLD THIS WEEK FOR JUST UNDER $2,500. - HERITAGE AUCTION 131434 LOT 27639
ANY COMMENTS OR IDEA WHY THIS IS PARTICULAR COIN IS WORTH THAT MUCH?

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Comments

  • ManorcourtmanManorcourtman Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭✭
    Someone wanted a 2 1/2 feather variety? It's clearly not a two feather variety.
  • TreashuntTreashunt Posts: 6,747 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Very clean obv fields.

    But, no clue
    Frank

    BHNC #203

  • keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
    semi-floating head variety.
  • BarberFanaticBarberFanatic Posts: 671 ✭✭✭✭
    Besides the 2½ feathers, there's something else unusual about this coin. Let's see if anyone else besides me can figure it out.
    My current coin collecting interests are: (1) British coins 1838-1970 in XF-AU-UNC, (2) silver type coins in XF-AU with that classic medium gray coloration and exceptional eye appeal.
  • ShamikaShamika Posts: 18,759 ✭✭✭✭
    Hmmm...

    Well, the strike is exceptional although many 1919-P's are very well struck...

    The designer's initial (Fraser) is clearly visible...

    There is no significant die rotation...

    There's a large die crack running across the Indian's face although there should be no premium for that...

    There's quite a bit of die abrasion under the Indian's chin, across the forehead/nose area, and across the Buffalo's back although nothing worth a premium...

    I don't see an extra leg...

    There's zero evidence of a mint mark...

    The missing feather tip is all I can think of although I don't believe this qualifies as a true 2-feather variety.

    This coin looks better than a 63, but $2,500 makes no sense at all.



    Buyer and seller of vintage coin boards!
  • ShamikaShamika Posts: 18,759 ✭✭✭✭

    I went to the actual auction page to confirm that the slab wasn't incorrectly labeled (i.e. 1919-D, 1919-S, etc). My only guess is that the two highest bidders failed to look at the extreme close-up image as provided by the OP. Without zooming in, the coin looks every bit like the traditional 2-feather variety.


    Buyer and seller of vintage coin boards!
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,499 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I went to the actual auction page to confirm that the slab wasn't incorrectly labeled (i.e. 1919-D, 1919-S, etc). My only guess is that the two highest bidders failed to look at the extreme close-up image as provided by the OP. Without zooming in, the coin looks every bit like the traditional 2-feather variety. >>



    That's a good guess. I suspect you are right.

    Either that, or there is an O/CC mintmark we are missing.

    image
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • Looks to be a very abraded and polished die, die crack on the face and what looks to be a strike through in the hair of the Indian. There appears to be remnants of a clashed die and the Indian has his lip pierced (brown spot). To be honest it looks a bit like some of the fakes I have seen. Edit to add it is also slightly off center and looks funky.
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,499 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Heavily clashed and heavily polished dies. Perhaps they polished it some more later and it became the 2-feather die, and the buyer wants to exhibit a die state progression set?
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • OnWithTheHuntOnWithTheHunt Posts: 1,172 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I agree with Shamika and others who think somebody believes it 's a 2-feathers.
    Proud recipient of the coveted "You Suck Award" (9/3/10).
  • koynekwestkoynekwest Posts: 10,048 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Incredible strike and the very top of the head is polished away (it's further from the rim than normal.) But certainly not worth anywhere near the final price unless I'm missing something. I have a feeling the winner thinks they can get it attributed as a 2F.
  • STONESTONE Posts: 15,275
    Please don't write your posts in all CAPS....Thanks
  • Cam40Cam40 Posts: 8,146
    Throat cut variety?
    Anyway, looks well struck for an abraded die nickel.
    I like it.
  • BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭
    With over 60 million struck whatever was seen should be able to be found without paying such a premium.
    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
  • DIMEMANDIMEMAN Posts: 22,403 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Missing throat???
  • icsoccericsoccer Posts: 1,339 ✭✭✭
    GREAT obverse strike. NOT a two feather. Worth that much??? well to somebody...
    Successful BST transactions to date: Coindeuce, Cohodk, dantheman984, STONE, LeeG, jy8s, jkal, SeaEagleCoins, Hyperion, silverman68,Meltdown,RichieURich,savoyspecial,Barndog
  • darktonedarktone Posts: 8,437 ✭✭✭
    Maybe in person it looks more like a two feather. The strike through in the hair is bothersome.
  • lkeigwinlkeigwin Posts: 16,885 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I don't collect Buffalos. For this variety should there be no sign of the 3rd feather?

    Here's one that looks much like the OP's and sold for well over $5k.
    Lance.

    image

    image
  • leothelyonleothelyon Posts: 8,349 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It's too obvious that a poorly struck version that shows no signs of the 3rd feather is preferable. UNBELIEVEABLE!



    Leo

    The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!

    My Jefferson Nickel Collection

  • NotSureNotSure Posts: 2,978 ✭✭✭
    This item's Owner is proactively entertaining Offers.

    Already entertaining, sorry, PROACTIVELY entertaining offers. Anyone think this will proactively be sold???

    edited to add....Given the attributed one shown, is it possible this COULD get the attribution???
    I'll come up with something.
  • ManorcourtmanManorcourtman Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>This item's Owner is proactively entertaining Offers.

    Already entertaining, sorry, PROACTIVELY entertaining offers. Anyone think this will proactively be sold???

    edited to add....Given the attributed one shown, is it possible this COULD get the attribution??? >>



    I sent a 17-D in last year with less showing than this 1919. I got no 2 Feather label and PCGS even added a note to the grading saying some of the third feather was showing and thus not a true 2 feather. In the past it seems some questionable 2 feathers have been attributed. I don't believe it will happen on this one. Pure speculation of course.
  • DMWJRDMWJR Posts: 5,974 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm with Shamika. A couple of collectors got excited at the slab shot.
    Doug
  • It does have some extensive abrasion yes. I think the only thing that makes it unique though is the price that someone paid for it image
  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Could be the 1919 "Olds" 442. It's Old. And has 4 eyes, 4 legs, and 2 horns.


    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold


  • << <i>Besides the 2½ feathers, there's something else unusual about this coin. Let's see if anyone else besides me can figure it out. >>



    Still waiting for the answer from you?
  • halfhunterhalfhunter Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭


    << <i>semi-floating head variety. >>



    I'm with you . . . Looks like the Chief was nearly beheaded ! ! !

    HH
    Need the following OBW rolls to complete my 46-64 Roosevelt roll set:
    1947-P & D; 1948-D; 1949-P & S; 1950-D & S; and 1952-S.
    Any help locating any of these OBW rolls would be gratefully appreciated!
  • SAM5969SAM5969 Posts: 1,215 ✭✭✭
    the default on heritage for coins over $500? Is to say you are entertaining offers .. You have to opt out to not be entertaining offers so it is not possible to know if he is consciously entertaining offers
    imageimage
  • ShamikaShamika Posts: 18,759 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Besides the 2½ feathers, there's something else unusual about this coin. Let's see if anyone else besides me can figure it out. >>



    Still waiting for the answer from you? >>




    I'm waiting as well.



    Buyer and seller of vintage coin boards!
  • WoodenJeffersonWoodenJefferson Posts: 6,491 ✭✭✭✭
    Looks like it's one of those 'wishful thinking' coins where you hope the graders missed the significant added value attribution.
    Chat Board Lingo

    "Keep your malarkey filter in good operating order" -Walter Breen
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,499 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>Besides the 2½ feathers, there's something else unusual about this coin. Let's see if anyone else besides me can figure it out. >>



    Still waiting for the answer from you? >>




    I'm waiting as well. >>




    zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • The lettering is well formed.
    Maybe someone thought it was a proof.
    Looks like a 2 and 1/2 feather abraded die variety to me.
    What gives?
  • BUFFNIXXBUFFNIXX Posts: 2,700 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It is a broken neck variety, and someone is putting together a registry set of finest known mint state broken neck variety buffs! Looks like the ole chief took a tomahawk chop to the neck.
    Collector of Buffalo Nickels and other 20th century United States Coinage
    a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
  • ad4400ad4400 Posts: 2,033 ✭✭✭✭✭
    This came out of the same auction as the piece I posted the "to feather or not two feather: question. I didn't bother following the 19-P as I felt that was even less close to a 2F than the 15-P. I have what I feel is a true 2F 19-P and it shows NONE of the trace this one does. I'm willing to bet both the 15-P and 19-P came from the same consignor, who at one point sought pieces that were, or were close to, 2F varieties. I suspect they are very happy with the results as well. The 15-P closed for $2K+, and while that one was closer to 2F, I suspect there will be some buyer remorse on both of those pieces.
  • koynekwestkoynekwest Posts: 10,048 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Clear evidence of the abrading process can be seen at the top of the head, in front of the forehead, eye, and nose, below the chin and jaw, and in front of the neck. It looks sorta like a "halo" around these places. This same thing is seen occasionally on all dates.
  • cladkingcladking Posts: 28,307 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I don't know what's unique about it but I'm most surprised by the die erosion
    in the middle of the hair detail.. .
    Tempus fugit.
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,499 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Guess the OP could not find anything "unique" about it to tell us.
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.


  • << <i>Guess the OP could not find anything "unique" about it to tell us. >>



    Ok well guess I have to +1 that! Is he teasing us, are we on the fish hook and do not notice it pulling at our lip?
  • crazyhounddogcrazyhounddog Posts: 13,776 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I have never herd of this variety until now.
    The bitterness of "Poor Quality" is remembered long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
  • ShamikaShamika Posts: 18,759 ✭✭✭✭
    Buyer and seller of vintage coin boards!
  • ShamikaShamika Posts: 18,759 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Guess the OP could not find anything "unique" about it to tell us. >>



    The OP had no idea why the coin brought such a high price. He was hoping someone else could say.


    Buyer and seller of vintage coin boards!
  • ShamikaShamika Posts: 18,759 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I'm most surprised by the die erosion in the middle of the hair detail. >>



    Die erosion in this area does appear from time to time with this series.



    Buyer and seller of vintage coin boards!
  • cladkingcladking Posts: 28,307 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    Die erosion in this area does appear from time to time with this series. >>



    Thanks for the info.

    My experience with buffalos is largly confined to worn and well worn specimens.
    Tempus fugit.
  • ShamikaShamika Posts: 18,759 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    Die erosion in this area does appear from time to time with this series. >>



    Thanks for the info.

    My experience with buffalos is largly confined to worn and well worn specimens. >>



    Except in severe cases, it would be difficult to identify erosion on a worn piece.

    Buyer and seller of vintage coin boards!
  • lkeigwinlkeigwin Posts: 16,885 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I have never herd of this variety until now. >>

    LOL. Was that intentional?
    Lance.
  • crazyhounddogcrazyhounddog Posts: 13,776 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>I have never herd of this variety until now. >>

    LOL. Was that intentional?
    Lance. >>



    I hope you no it was.
    The bitterness of "Poor Quality" is remembered long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
  • AMRCAMRC Posts: 4,266 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If it got that high, at least two people thought they saw something. I am going to say this is some kind of mistake.
    MLAeBayNumismatics: "The greatest hobby in the world!"
  • leothelyonleothelyon Posts: 8,349 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Besides the 2½ feathers, there's something else unusual about this coin. Let's see if anyone else besides me can figure it out. >>



    Possibly some clash activity behind rear buf's leg of 1/2 feather?

    Toadd; and on the neck.

    The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!

    My Jefferson Nickel Collection

  • Leave it to plastic to hide the coins edge.
    Possibly valued the coin as a Miss Aligned Die error...MAD.
    On the Obv, the rim below the date seems to disappear.
  • ad4400ad4400 Posts: 2,033 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Amazingly, at least IMO, this one is also now attributed . I'm feeling I should strike while the iron is hot and send in anything close.

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