Interesting. Any unverified reports of a transitional obverse of a Proof or circulation strike elsewhere ? Without a delineation of the olive branch at that point, it almost looks as if the engraver intended it to be a short stem of the main branch, rather than an index finger. Considering that the other fingers are shown as bent back in toward Liberty's palm, it seems improbable that the designer intended an index finger to remain outstretched, and to appear to be much shorter when outstretched.
<< <i>Interesting. Any unverified reports of a transitional obverse of a Proof or circulation strike elsewhere ? >>
This the 4 finger obv (affectionatly called 1.5) has been know of for years but always cosidered a proof only variety. Here is a 100% proof
But that said there is a bevy of mounting evidence that the dies were used in circulation strikes as well and that looks like it most likely is one. I am jealous stealer, that is an amazing example of a truly unique coin.
<< <i>Interesting. Any unverified reports of a transitional obverse of a Proof or circulation strike elsewhere ? >>
This the 4 finger obv (affectionatly called 1.5) has been know of for years but always cosidered a proof only variety. Here is a 100% proof
But that said there is a bevy of mounting evidence that the dies were used in circulation strikes as well and that looks like it most likely is one. >>
Thanks for the pics crypto. Also, the reverse is the same reverse used for the 76P 2/2.
However, threads like this always make Trade Dollars seem like such an intimidating series to even contemplate collecting. >>
I know what you mean...it is seriously a momentous series to finish, but with the help of guys like Keoj, OriginalDan and crypto79 my collection is slowly coming together
The basic set is not that hard to complete if you are patient. Collecting chop marked examples lowers the cost of acquisition (in most cases) and adds interest and variety. But when you get into all the varieties, like Crypto and others have, look out!
<< <i>Without a delineation of the olive branch at that point, it almost looks as if the engraver intended it to be a short stem of the main branch, rather than an index finger. Considering that the other fingers are shown as bent back in toward Liberty's palm, it seems improbable that the designer intended an index finger to remain outstretched, and to appear to be much shorter when outstretched. >>
This was my first thought exactly.
@ Elite CNC Routing & Woodworks on Facebook. Check out my work. Too many positive BST transactions with too many members to list.
<< <i>Without a delineation of the olive branch at that point, it almost looks as if the engraver intended it to be a short stem of the main branch, rather than an index finger. Considering that the other fingers are shown as bent back in toward Liberty's palm, it seems improbable that the designer intended an index finger to remain outstretched, and to appear to be much shorter when outstretched. >>
This was my first thought exactly. >>
Well you guys are partially right and on to something. While specialists refer to it as a transitional hub or die it is really a pain old type 1 die that had the thing recut into it. The quality and uniformity eludes to it being intentional and then all we can do if guess intent. This much we know for sure or pretty sure.
- it appears to have been forced into service as a proof die -during 1876 (centennial) proof coins were popular keep sakes and there was a bunch of striking sessions and 76 has the highest proof production durning the 73-78 production period and the most die pairs - trade dollars were going through an obv design change late in the year and one of the main things modified was adding a 4th finger as it had been publicly ridiculed as not having enough - this 1.5 die was struck very late in the year as it share a rev die with the rare type 2/2
It will never be known if this was a prototype put into service or an old one modded to look more like the new style but it most assuredly was intended to be a finger as it looks identical to the new hand on the type 2 obv
The case for if it made it into business strikes or not is pretty solid but I will save that for another day.
stealer
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Considering that the other fingers are shown as bent back in toward Liberty's palm, it seems improbable that the designer intended an index finger to remain outstretched, and to appear to be much shorter when outstretched.
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.americanlegacycoins.com
<< <i>Interesting. Any unverified reports of a transitional obverse of a Proof or circulation strike elsewhere ? >>
This the 4 finger obv (affectionatly called 1.5) has been know of for years but always cosidered a proof only variety. Here is a 100% proof
But that said there is a bevy of mounting evidence that the dies were used in circulation strikes as well and that looks like it most likely is one. I am jealous stealer, that is an amazing example of a truly unique coin.
<< <i>
<< <i>Interesting. Any unverified reports of a transitional obverse of a Proof or circulation strike elsewhere ? >>
This the 4 finger obv (affectionatly called 1.5) has been know of for years but always cosidered a proof only variety. Here is a 100% proof
But that said there is a bevy of mounting evidence that the dies were used in circulation strikes as well and that looks like it most likely is one. >>
Thanks for the pics crypto. Also, the reverse is the same reverse used for the 76P 2/2.
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.americanlegacycoins.com
Complete Set of Chopmarked Trade Dollars
Carson City Silver Dollars Complete 1870-1893http://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/showcase.aspx?sc=2722"
However, threads like this always make Trade Dollars seem like such an intimidating series to even contemplate collecting.
https://imdb.com/name/nm1835107/
<< <i>Very cool coin, Stealer.
However, threads like this always make Trade Dollars seem like such an intimidating series to even contemplate collecting. >>
I know what you mean...it is seriously a momentous series to finish, but with the help of guys like Keoj, OriginalDan and crypto79 my collection is slowly coming together
Complete Set of Chopmarked Trade Dollars
Carson City Silver Dollars Complete 1870-1893http://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/showcase.aspx?sc=2722"
<< <i>Without a delineation of the olive branch at that point, it almost looks as if the engraver intended it to be a short stem of the main branch, rather than an index finger.
Considering that the other fingers are shown as bent back in toward Liberty's palm, it seems improbable that the designer intended an index finger to remain outstretched, and to appear to be much shorter when outstretched.
This was my first thought exactly.
Too many positive BST transactions with too many members to list.
<< <i>
<< <i>Without a delineation of the olive branch at that point, it almost looks as if the engraver intended it to be a short stem of the main branch, rather than an index finger.
Considering that the other fingers are shown as bent back in toward Liberty's palm, it seems improbable that the designer intended an index finger to remain outstretched, and to appear to be much shorter when outstretched.
This was my first thought exactly. >>
Well you guys are partially right and on to something. While specialists refer to it as a transitional hub or die it is really a pain old type 1 die that had the thing recut into it. The quality and uniformity eludes to it being intentional and then all we can do if guess intent. This much we know for sure or pretty sure.
- it appears to have been forced into service as a proof die
-during 1876 (centennial) proof coins were popular keep sakes and there was a bunch of striking sessions and 76 has the highest proof production durning the 73-78 production period and the most die pairs
- trade dollars were going through an obv design change late in the year and one of the main things modified was adding a 4th finger as it had been publicly ridiculed as not having enough
- this 1.5 die was struck very late in the year as it share a rev die with the rare type 2/2
It will never be known if this was a prototype put into service or an old one modded to look more like the new style but it most assuredly was intended to be a finger as it looks identical to the new hand on the type 2 obv
The case for if it made it into business strikes or not is pretty solid but I will save that for another day.