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Holy Toledo!!! 1820 Bust dime in PCGS MS67 over $100k

EastonCollectionEastonCollection Posts: 1,244 ✭✭✭✭✭
In the upcoming Heritage auction, they have a 1820 JR-2 capped bust dime in pcgs MS67. The coin looks absolutely magnificent! The coin has been CAC. Personally, I can't wait to actual see the coin in hand. I think its one of the finest capped bust dimes in existence!!!!
But.... But the current bid is over $100k with the juice and the auction is still a week away. This price so far is unreal!!!! Does anyone share my thoughts or does anyone think its worth more. BTW- the JR-2 is the famous office boy reverse and its really cool to see the miscutting in the AM in America.

But still - is this price for real??? Come on folks - I wanted the coin but get real - $100k plus......

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Comments

  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,145 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ok so when you said P67 I'm thinking Proof67 and thinking yah, that's about right....
  • EastonCollectionEastonCollection Posts: 1,244 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ok - Boss - I corrected the post - its mint state!!! Any thoughts on price????
    Easton Collection
  • STONESTONE Posts: 15,275
    It is a Red Book variety image
  • bolivarshagnastybolivarshagnasty Posts: 7,348 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It is an exquisite coin!30k price guide for a ms66. Possible finest known? Maybe the 100k is where it is suppose to be. And for the record, out of my league as well.
  • EastonCollectionEastonCollection Posts: 1,244 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Thanks Stone - yes its a red book variety - Your thoughts on price????
    Coin is spectacular!
    Easton Collection
  • LanceNewmanOCCLanceNewmanOCC Posts: 19,999 ✭✭✭✭✭
    .
    let us know what you think about the coin in-hand vs those 2 sets of images, i'd appreciate it. it just looks "off", which is vague but i can't put words to it.

    an amazing coin for sure.
    .

    <--- look what's behind the mask! - cool link 1/NO ~ 2/NNP ~ 3/NNC ~ 4/CF ~ 5/PG ~ 6/Cert ~ 7/NGC 7a/NGC pop~ 8/NGCF ~ 9/HA archives ~ 10/PM ~ 11/NM ~ 12/ANACS cert ~ 13/ANACS pop - report fakes 1/ACEF ~ report fakes/thefts 1/NCIS - Numi-Classes SS ~ Bass ~ Transcribed Docs NNP - clashed coins - error training - V V mm styles -

  • EastonCollectionEastonCollection Posts: 1,244 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Stupid me - I actually thought that I was going to bid on it and win it. Not at these levels!!!!! Maybe half????
    Easton Collection
  • VanHalenVanHalen Posts: 3,787 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Ok - Boss - I corrected the post - its mint state!!! Any thoughts on price???? >>



    I don't see history for a MS67 but the price sounds about right for a PCGS MS67 with a green bean. I doubt it will go much higher but you never know.
  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 32,123 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I second hearing others' thoughts on it in hand

    It is a superior looking coin

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • EastonCollectionEastonCollection Posts: 1,244 ✭✭✭✭✭
    At the Gardner sale, he has a 1820 Stateof dime in pcgs66 that was CAC and it sold for $67k. I had thought that coin was the nicest bust dime ever - great color and original skin!!! Now is this coin worth that much more??? Unbelievable!
    Easton Collection
  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,145 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Interesting that it's a pop2 but on Heritage it shows as a pop1.
  • AMRCAMRC Posts: 4,266 ✭✭✭✭✭
    There is no price guide for seldom seen top-pops.
    MLAeBayNumismatics: "The greatest hobby in the world!"
  • hchcoinhchcoin Posts: 4,825 ✭✭✭✭✭
    That is a beautiful coin
  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,145 ✭✭✭✭✭
    All I can say is you gotta ask yourself "would I rather have the coin or the money in the bank". For different people there are different answers
  • EastonCollectionEastonCollection Posts: 1,244 ✭✭✭✭✭
    TDN - All I can say is you gotta ask yourself "would I rather have the coin or the money in the bank". For different people there are different answers Text

    Tomorrow - I am going to buy $100 in powerball tickets. If I win powerball, then I will buy this coin. You never know...Otherwise its a dream........
    Easton Collection
  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Considering some of the toned monsters that came out of Newman and Gardner, this coin almost looks too subdued, mottled and just ok. Mind you that's ok. At least it was for me from 1975-2011.
    But these days everyone seems to want sizzle, blast, and eye popping pop tops. This coin looks like a superb gem toned bust dime ought to. But Newman seems to have spoiled the "wild crowd."

    I didn't realize that Oliver Jung was back collecting again....thought he sold out in 2004.
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • CoinJunkieCoinJunkie Posts: 8,772 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Interesting that it's a pop2 but on Heritage it shows as a pop1. >>


    Heritage is in error, although looking at CoinFacts the other MS67 is pure white, so in some sense this coin is pop 1.

    It is a gorgeous dime!

    image
  • EastonCollectionEastonCollection Posts: 1,244 ✭✭✭✭✭
    RR- Newman didn't spoil me - I didn't like his capped bust dimes.
    Easton Collection
  • BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Well after seeing the secure-view image I'd sure rather have the cash image

    PCGS CERT LINK

    image

    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>RR- Newman didn't spoil me - I didn't like his capped bust dimes. >>



    But many others did. And they went gaga over his bust quarters and halves. It goes to show you what a judicious dipping + 60-80 yrs of toning can do for you.

    The live scans of the coin barely show luster. You'd expect a lot better video/photo for $100K.
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 32,123 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Well after seeing the secure-view image I'd sure rather have the cash image

    PCGS CERT LINK

    image >>






    Sigh sigh sigh


    And that's a recent SP photo.

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • EastonCollectionEastonCollection Posts: 1,244 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Boy - that SP photo is ugly! I only wish that Heritage's photo was equally bad- then maybe I could win it at levels that I would have expected.
    Easton Collection
  • STONESTONE Posts: 15,275
    I can't really add much more info because I haven't seen the coin in person and from what I just received from Heritage their pics are rather useless.

    If you tell me it's spectacular then I can believe it. If it is a true MS-67 then its something special.
    From the pics the toning is ho-hum, not spectacularly attractive, but not unattractive either.

    Maybe the market for super gem top-pop Bust Dimes are moving up.
    Maybe 2 or more people just REALLY want the coin and demand is driving the price.
    Certainly there are many different types of collectors who could be interested in this coin.

    A $100,000+ Capped Bust Dime is not unreasonable these days, but it's not typical either.

    My conclusion - This one is not easy to gauge.
  • SunnywoodSunnywood Posts: 2,683
    The following image was compiled from the slab images on the Heritage website, which are sometimes more realistic.

    This image is probably closer to the truth:


    image
  • ChrisRxChrisRx Posts: 5,619 ✭✭✭✭
    There would be thousands of coins I would rather buy for the money.
    image
  • mozinmozin Posts: 8,755 ✭✭✭
    No way would I spend so much money for such a tiny coin.
    I collect Capped Bust series by variety in PCGS AU/MS grades.
  • leothelyonleothelyon Posts: 8,349 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Sure has a high mintage.


    Leo

    The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!

    My Jefferson Nickel Collection

  • ElcontadorElcontador Posts: 7,412 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It's in a secure holder, so someone made it a 7. Am too lazy to go back and find out the latest date & image of the coin in a 6 holder. Am curious as to who got it into the 7 holder, but again, I'll never be able to find out. It's interesting that I have an attractive Bust Dime in MS 64 that as RR said, had a judicious dipping and 60-80 years of toning, and I can't upgrade the coin (no pics, sorry).
    "Vou invadir o Nordeste,
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  • BustHalfBrianBustHalfBrian Posts: 4,116 ✭✭✭


    << <i>No way would I spend so much money for such a tiny coin. >>



    At least it's an early large-diameter...

    image
    Lurking and learning since 2010. Full-time professional numismatist.
  • EastonCollectionEastonCollection Posts: 1,244 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think this will be a world record price for a capped bust dime in mint state condition when the coin sells next week. I would think that before I would spend so much money for a coin even though its speculator, I would want to know that there isn't a finer capped bust dime out there. Based on my pricing of these types of coins, if its the "best coin" within a particular series i.e bust capped dimes or the "best coin" for the year sometimes those coins achieve moon money prices in auctions.
    Before, I spent that type of money, I would want to know that this one was the best. I don't think there are sufficient records or information out there on capped bust dimes knowing that this is the best coin. So if you are paying record price for the best coin and then another one pops up, then you may see your coin not a record achieving coin when its time to sell.
    BTW - I would need to win the lottery to buy this coin- so I will be buying my power-ball tickets!
    Easton Collection
  • halfhunterhalfhunter Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Well after seeing the secure-view image I'd sure rather have the cash image

    PCGS CERT LINK

    image >>



    It is listed as POP-1 on the cert. link ? ? ? image

    HH
    Need the following OBW rolls to complete my 46-64 Roosevelt roll set:
    1947-P & D; 1948-D; 1949-P & S; 1950-D & S; and 1952-S.
    Any help locating any of these OBW rolls would be gratefully appreciated!
  • DaveWcoinsDaveWcoins Posts: 1,185 ✭✭✭
    It looks like a very nice coin. However -- to say that it is finest bust dime in existence -- well, I would want to see the Pogue family's collection of bust dimes before I could possibly make that determination.

    I have not seen their bust dimes, but I have seen the Pogue family bust quarters. Let me tell you -- those bust quarters still haunt my dreams.
    Dave Wnuck. Redbook contributor; long time PNG Member; listed on the PCGS Board of Experts. PM me with your email address to receive my e-newsletter, and visit DaveWcoins.com Find me on eBay at davewcoins
  • pcgs69pcgs69 Posts: 4,258 ✭✭✭✭
    It has very similar surfaces and appearance to Paulyaces76's quarter in this thread. It'd be in a genuine holder if I had submitted it.
  • CoinJunkieCoinJunkie Posts: 8,772 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>It's in a secure holder, so someone made it a 7. >>


    Not necessarily. It could have been graded 7 long ago, was recently submitted for a regrade,
    and failed to get a bump.


  • << <i>

    And that's a recent SP photo. >>



    No, it's not. It's from early 2010. This is one of the very first SP Photos. Looks like it was graded at a show that I was not in attendance (Photo didn't go to shows very often back then), otherwise we would have definitely gotten a photo of it.

    Radiant Collection: Numismatics and Exonumia of the Atomic Age.
    https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/showcase/3232

  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 32,123 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    And that's a recent SP photo. >>



    No, it's not. It's from early 2010. This is one of the very first SP Photos. Looks like it was graded at a show that I was not in attendance (Photo didn't go to shows very often back then), otherwise we would have definitely gotten a photo of it. >>





    Ok. I was wrong.

    I'm going to note it's in a 2014 gen holder.
    1) does SP shoot a new SP photo every time a SP coin is back "in house" ?
    2) as a SP proponent these low quality photos frustrate me as they don't adequately depict the coin. Is there a process to review SP photos when SP coins are back "in house" to ensure they meet SP services basic needs?

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • 1Bustcollector1Bustcollector Posts: 568 ✭✭✭
    Here has been my wishful thought/idea for so many years:

    If I were selling a spectacular expensive coin I would "want a great auction firm to sell my coin," a great photograph," and a great write up!" Why do we have to settle for less? I guess two for three is the best we can hope for? Am I still dreaming in this day and age? Wouldn't it be nice if PSCG could work out a deal (make more money, hint, hint!!!) with an Auction house (hint, hint!!!) to "sell" or at least their TRUEVIEW PHOTO as a "one time print publication?" I know I may get a bunch of reasons why not.......if so, at least "Link" to PCGS.

    So, you all tell me: What sells a coin best? Words or pictures?
    Persuing choice countermarked coinage on 2 reales.

    Enjoyed numismatic conversations with Eric P. Newman, Dave Akers, Jules Reiver, David Davis, Russ Logan, John McCloskey, Kirk Gorman, W. David Perkins...


  • << <i>So, you all tell me: What sells a coin best? Words or pictures? >>



    On words, all catalogue descriptions need to be taken with a grain of salt. Usually it consists of boilerplate and puffery. On pictures, don't buy from photos.

    What sells a coin? Knowledge on the buyers side and in-hand viewing of the coins.

    And people with large specialized consignments can, and do, assist with the cataloguing of their coins.
  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>So, you all tell me: What sells a coin best? Words or pictures? >>



    On words, all catalogue descriptions need to be taken with a grain of salt. Usually it consists of boilerplate and puffery. On pictures, don't buy from photos.

    What sells a coin? Knowledge on the buyers side and in-hand viewing of the coins.

    And people with large specialized consignments can, and do, assist with the cataloguing of their coins. >>




    While that is for the most part true, never underestimate the power of a good catalog photo, a great description, and an ample serving of puffery. Some of the new buyers out there are bidding on photos and a description,
    even for 5 figure coins. In some cases they might have a trusted source at the auction house look at the coin for them. But, if they can't see the coin in person, the photo is a big player.

    The odds that this 1820 bust dime is finest known for the type? I'd say pretty close to 0%. There has to be a coin with cleaner surfaces, more vibrant luster, and prettier coloration that this one. It may not be graded yet but
    there has to be a better looking coin than this. The best of the best should knock your socks off. I'd wager that there are some bust coins in 66 holders (of varying vintages) that are as nicer or nicer than this coin. Not every
    coin graded back in the earlier years has made it back for regrades (ie like Pogue coins).
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • pennyanniepennyannie Posts: 3,929 ✭✭✭
    As I get older the coins need to get bigger. I will leave my money in the bank earning .03 than cash in on this coin. I would rather be the seller than the buyer on this coin. That said I am sure a few are getting excited over this auction offering.
    Mark
    NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
    working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!

    RIP "BEAR"
  • CalGoldCalGold Posts: 2,609 ✭✭


    << <i>The odds that this 1820 bust dime is finest known for the type? I'd say pretty close to 0% >>



    The catalog says that it is the finest graded of the variety not the finest known of the type. It is PCGS with CAC and from Oliver Jung. Is it worth the current bid? Ask the bidders.

    CG
  • orevilleoreville Posts: 11,771 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I liked more the 1820 PCGS/CAC MS-63 dime I sold to a very nice fellow poster right here.
    A Collectors Universe poster since 1997!
  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>The odds that this 1820 bust dime is finest known for the type? I'd say pretty close to 0% >>



    The catalog says that it is the finest graded of the variety not the finest known of the type. It is PCGS with CAC and from Oliver Jung. Is it worth the current bid? Ask the bidders.
    CG >>




    Understood. But, I'm replying to what EastonCollection wrote earlier:


    I think this will be a world record price for a capped bust dime in mint state condition when the coin sells next week. I would think that before I would spend so much money for a coin even though its speculator, I would want to know that there isn't a finer capped bust dime out there.....

    Is it worth $100K+ as a finest known for variety? Don't know. It matters little to me that it's from Oliver Jung. A lot of his type coins that were sold in 2004 were an assortment of quick buys in high holders. It's not like the pedigree is a Gardner, Norweb, Pittman, Stack, TDN, Pryor, Price (early bust dimes), etc.
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • Wabbit2313Wabbit2313 Posts: 7,268 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It is not the image that comes to mind when I think MS67.
  • raysrays Posts: 2,327 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Considering some of the toned monsters that came out of Newman and Gardner, this coin almost looks too subdued, mottled and just ok. Mind you that's ok. At least it was for me from 1975-2011.
    But these days everyone seems to want sizzle, blast, and eye popping pop tops. This coin looks like a superb gem toned bust dime ought to. But Newman seems to have spoiled the "wild crowd."

    I didn't realize that Oliver Jung was back collecting again....thought he sold out in 2004. >>



    It does look a little dark in the photo and short video. In hand, it could be better...
  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 32,123 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I guess it shows I'm not a BD collector.

    I'm surprised at some of the responses. It looks like a solid 67 in the photos.

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • EastonCollectionEastonCollection Posts: 1,244 ✭✭✭✭✭
    This is a very interesting thread - I will look at the coin at ANA and report back to you guys on whether the coin is truly spectacular or not so. EIther way, I am not buying this coin unless I win powerball. In my registry set is a 1820 JR-2 in MS64. I reviewing coinfacts the pop its a 4/2 as a small O and a 2/1 as a JR-2. To me the 64 is much nicer than the 67 considering the price difference between the 2 coins. Yeah, I know that some rich person will eventually post a higher graded set than me. UGH.
    Easton Collection
  • EastonCollectionEastonCollection Posts: 1,244 ✭✭✭✭✭
    So - I was doing some looking up and I noticed that a 1820 JR-2 bust dime in NGC 67 sold in the January 2014 Goldberg's sale for $38,775 - I thought that coin was nice looking but I thought it would have a chance of crossing? Now, should the price differential be over $60k for the same graded coin???
    Easton Collection
  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>So - I was doing some looking up and I noticed that a 1820 JR-2 bust dime in NGC 67 sold in the January 2014 Goldberg's sale for $38,775 - I thought that coin was nice looking but I thought it would have a chance of crossing? Now, should the price differential be over $60k for the same graded coin??? >>



    A tripling in price could easily be the case, especially if that PCGS MS67 is a pop 1 - finest graded. The NGC 67 traded as if it were a PCGS 66. Chances of crossing such a coin are probably <5%. Your best shot is to crack it out. Even a PCGS66+ is probably worth more than an NGC67. The TPG's have basically reduced your market risk for cracking out an NGC coin assuming the coin is not AT or altered in any way.
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • SunnywoodSunnywood Posts: 2,683
    That is NOT the same coin. The Oliver Jung PCGS MS67 looks nicer.

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