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Gold Brasher Doubloon copy to be sold at the ANA

AnkurJAnkurJ Posts: 11,366 ✭✭✭✭
I don't know about you, but I would love to own one!

Doubloon
All coins kept in bank vaults.
PCGS Registries
Box of 20
SeaEagleCoins: 11/14/54-4/5/12. Miss you Larry!
«13

Comments

  • BoosibriBoosibri Posts: 11,839 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ditto, the original not the copy. One day...
  • keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
    though the copies will be big news I think that the bigger news should be that Ron Landis has re-entered Numismatics. I know that when his longtime business partner died several years ago he sort of retired and only recently became interested enough to resume his great design work. we need more original work like what's pictured below. as nice as these Doubloons and the excitement they create will be for the Hobby, they are still just copies of an existing design, much like our bullion coins(with the exception of the Platinums).

    collectors are always screaming for new designs and I think Ron Landis could provide them.

    image
    image
  • MidLifeCrisisMidLifeCrisis Posts: 10,504 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Is it cool? Yes.

    Will I buy one? No.

    I'd rather spend my money on real coins.
  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
    New coin designs that are true art, would be most welcome......unfortunately, 'committees' will ruin this with political correctness and commercialism.... Cheers, RickO
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 45,296 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Will this replica coin have a big "COPY" punched into it?

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.

  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,499 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Will this replica coin have a big "COPY" punched into it? >>



    I have asked Monaco (last Monday, after the story broke in Coin World Online) if the copies will be marked with the word "COPY" in accordance with the Hobby Protection Act of 1973, but to date have not received a reply. If I do, I will mention it here.

    If they are not to be marked in accordance with the HPA, then the ANA should not allow it to happen on the premises of their convention, regardless of the promised donation.

    TD
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • AnkurJAnkurJ Posts: 11,366 ✭✭✭✭
    Since the gold composition will change from the original, is it still considered a copy?
    All coins kept in bank vaults.
    PCGS Registries
    Box of 20
    SeaEagleCoins: 11/14/54-4/5/12. Miss you Larry!
  • LindeDadLindeDad Posts: 18,766 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Will this replica coin have a big "COPY" punched into it? >>



    I have asked Monaco (last Monday, after the story broke in Coin World Online) if the copies will be marked with the word "COPY" in accordance with the Hobby Protection Act of 1973, but to date have not received a reply. If I do, I will mention it here.

    If they are not to be marked in accordance with the HPA, then the ANA should not allow it to happen on the premises of their convention, regardless of the promised donation.

    TD >>




    image
  • keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Since the gold composition will change from the original, is it still considered a copy?

    I would say yes plus what the good Captain said.
  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 23,898 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Will this replica coin have a big "COPY" punched into it? >>



    I have asked Monaco (last Monday, after the story broke in Coin World Online) if the copies will be marked with the word "COPY" in accordance with the Hobby Protection Act of 1973, but to date have not received a reply. If I do, I will mention it here.

    If they are not to be marked in accordance with the HPA, then the ANA should not allow it to happen on the premises of their convention, regardless of the promised donation.

    TD >>



    I certainly hope the ANA would not allow itself to be a part of anything involving unmarked copies.
    All glory is fleeting.
  • BaleyBaley Posts: 22,658 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Gallery Mint/Ron Landis has always very faithfully observed the hobby protection act and marked all replica items "copy", including their previous tribute to the Brasher Doubloon.

    Not sure if this new news is good news or bad news for owners of the previous 1990's version?

    imageimage

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

  • keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Baley, I believe I see "COPY" in the eagles left wing, he has hidden it well.
  • BaleyBaley Posts: 22,658 ✭✭✭✭✭
    They do their best to make the COPY blend into the design, often placing it in Liberty's hair or in the wreath or feathers if on the reverse.

    In this case, it's not on the wing, but in the tail

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

  • moosesrmoosesr Posts: 1,966 ✭✭✭
    If the ANA approves this type of copy, then maybe eBay will start allowing other american made replica coins such as those made by the gallery mint?

  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 23,891 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Novodel???
    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • AnkurJAnkurJ Posts: 11,366 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Novodel??? >>



    Isn't that Russian for reproduction?
    All coins kept in bank vaults.
    PCGS Registries
    Box of 20
    SeaEagleCoins: 11/14/54-4/5/12. Miss you Larry!
  • BaleyBaley Posts: 22,658 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I've seen the word novodel used for the class III 1804 dollars, 1801-1803 proofs, certain 1827 quarters, certain "patterns" and unofficial restrikes, and similar US mint made repros,
    but thus far never for a privately-minted item, particularly modern-made. Has anyone else seen this usage of "novodel"?

    Anyone have an idea of the proposed mintage of the new Brasher Copy? What about the mintage of the previously made Replica?

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,499 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Baley, I believe I see "COPY" in the eagles left wing, he has hidden it well. >>



    Tail feathers. Had to look for it.
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,499 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I don't know about you, but I would love to own one!

    Doubloon >>



    By the way, excellent pictures that really show the wear on this "Mint State" coin. I know that you cannot grade a coin from pictures, but I used to work for the man that owned it.
    TD
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • BaleyBaley Posts: 22,658 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Here's the GM half doubloon:

    imageimage

    0.9167 gold like the other, but half the weight

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

  • DIMEMANDIMEMAN Posts: 22,403 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I can't say NO loud enough!

    Why would anybody want to waste coin money on modern copies of anything!
  • 7over87over8 Posts: 4,733 ✭✭✭
    Not a fan of the "COPY" mark. If it has it, not for me. If it is a restrike, no copy mark, then I would consider buying one. However, it should be in .890 gold.

    Does Hobby Protection Act cover non US colonial issues? Also, how about restrikes? Since this is marketed under a restrike ("Novotel") will it require a copy stamp?
  • BaleyBaley Posts: 22,658 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Would be very disappointing if they don't include a prominent "copy" stamp. Not sure of the appropriateness of the term "novodel" for these copies. The word "coin" is misused in the article, too.

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

  • goldengolden Posts: 9,017 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I can't say NO loud enough!

    Why would anybody want to waste coin money on modern copies of anything! >>

    image

    More junk!
  • PQueuePQueue Posts: 901 ✭✭✭

    can't say NO loud enough!
    Why would anybody want to waste coin money on modern copies of anything!

    +2
    I totally agree with both of you. These reproductions do not get remotely close to "U.S. Coins".
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,499 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Not a fan of the "COPY" mark. If it has it, not for me. If it is a restrike, no copy mark, then I would consider buying one. However, it should be in .890 gold.

    Does Hobby Protection Act cover non US colonial issues? Also, how about restrikes? Since this is marketed under a restrike ("Novotel") will it require a copy stamp? >>



    Here are the definitions:

    http://www.ftc.gov/system/files/documents/federal_register_notices/1975/02/40fedreg.pdf

    Does not have to be U.S. Does not have to be a legal tender coin or note.

    As to not wanting to have it on an item, I do not want to have to pay self-employment tax on my writing income, but that want does not give me the right to ignore the law.

    TD
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,499 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Try this

    linky
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • 7over87over8 Posts: 4,733 ✭✭✭
    Well I guess there wont be many sold with the big old COPY mark.

    I certainly wont buy one.
  • coinsarefuncoinsarefun Posts: 21,663 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Novodel??? >>



    Isn't that Russian for reproduction? >>






    Not really,
    Novodels are supposed to be official "restrikes" by the mint. In Russia they were
    either the original dies or reworked original dies of very rare dates where usually only museums owned or in very few private hands.
    So they were ordered by exceedingly wealthy Russians to make a very limited amount for them.
    I own two different ones and as far as I know there are only one or two of mine minted by the Saint Petersburg Mint.




  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,499 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Well I guess there wont be many sold with the big old COPY mark.

    I certainly wont buy one. >>



    Are you saying that they should ignore the law because a few people don't want to obey it?
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 45,296 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Well I guess there wont be many sold with the big old COPY mark.

    I certainly wont buy one. >>



    Are you saying that they should ignore the law because a few people don't want to obey it? >>



    I'm tempted to say something political about "ignore the law" but I'll spare you.image I do agree that unless there is an obvious design change such as using dual dates for example, there needs to be a "COPY" stamp added to these coins.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.

  • ebaytraderebaytrader Posts: 3,312 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Novodel??? >>




    Of course not! It just sounds better in the marketing literature.

    Novodel, by definition, is a govt authorized restrike.
  • ebaytraderebaytrader Posts: 3,312 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    I certainly hope the ANA would not allow itself to be a part of anything involving unmarked copies. >>




    image
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,499 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>Well I guess there wont be many sold with the big old COPY mark.

    I certainly wont buy one. >>



    Are you saying that they should ignore the law because a few people don't want to obey it? >>



    I'm tempted to say something political about "ignore the law" but I'll spare you.image I do agree that unless there is an obvious design change such as using dual dates for example, there needs to be a "COPY" stamp added to these coins. >>



    Thank you. And I hope there is some obvious design change in these pieces, such as the addition of a 2014 date, but the manufacturers are being rather coy about the final design.
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • 7over87over8 Posts: 4,733 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I'm tempted to say something political about "ignore the law" but I'll spare you. >>



    I never said "ignore the law", what I said was .......Not a fan of the "COPY" mark. If it has it, not for me. If it is a restrike, no copy mark, then I would consider buying one.

    Restrikes bearing different dates, like 2014, I wouldn't think it would have to bear a COPY mark.
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,499 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>I'm tempted to say something political about "ignore the law" but I'll spare you. >>



    I never said "ignore the law", what I said was .......Not a fan of the "COPY" mark. If it has it, not for me. If it is a restrike, no copy mark, then I would consider buying one.

    Restrikes bearing different dates, like 2014, I wouldn't think it would have to bear a COPY mark. >>



    Agreed. Then it would be a commemorative medallion, privately struck just as the piece it commemorated was privately struck.

    A good analogy would be the Paris Mint restrike of the Libertas Americana medal for the American Bicentennial, with the 1976 date on it.
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • 7over87over8 Posts: 4,733 ✭✭✭
    There may be some "spin" on this one, so it doesn't have to bear a copy mark? Not sure.

  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,499 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>There may be some "spin" on this one, so it doesn't have to bear a copy mark? Not sure. >>



    Nobody knows. As of today I have still not heard from Monaco Rare Coins.
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • edix2001edix2001 Posts: 3,388
    Ron Landis' previous work with Monaco didn't require a COPY stamp, since the original designs had been altered significantly on the Baldwin & Company 1850 $10 - Horseman Type and the Kellogg & Co. 1855 $50 gold.
  • 7over87over8 Posts: 4,733 ✭✭✭
    The CW article mentions "alterations" made which will distinguish the coin from the
    original, keeping within the intent of the HPA
    Also it mentions it will carry the 1787 date
    No mention of a copy stamp
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,499 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>The CW article mentions "alterations" made which will distinguish the coin from the
    original, keeping within the intent of the HPA
    Also it mentions it will carry the 1787 date
    No mention of a copy stamp >>



    I saw that, but the question is, how significant are the "alterations?"
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • 19Lyds19Lyds Posts: 26,470 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I don't know about you, but I would love to own one!

    Doubloon >>

    Go for it then!
    I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.



    The name is LEE!
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,499 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Still no word from Monaco, but I am reminded by someone that the people behind this "reproduction" (I don't like the term "novodel," which implies it is a government issue) are the people who did the S.S. Central America $50 slug reproduction, which was, in my mind, sufficiently different from the original so an not to need to be stamped with "COPY."
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • 7over87over8 Posts: 4,733 ✭✭✭
    well we know the edge carries the fineness of gold, that is one difference. I'm sure there are subtle design changes.

    I think they are trying to do a very accurate restrike, I believe a lot more accurate that the $50 octagonals or $10 horseman.
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,499 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Just spoke with somebody at Monaco. Doesn't look as though there will be any problem with the design or Hobby Protection Act compliance. I do not think that stamping them with "COPY" will be necessary.

    TD
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 22,847 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Just spoke with somebody at Monaco. Doesn't look as though there will be any problem with the design or Hobby Protection Act compliance. I do not think that stamping them with "COPY" will be necessary.

    TD >>



    That is good news that no "copy" will be necessary. Now I'm interested. Did you happen to ask about a price range?

    Thanks! MJ
    Walker Proof Digital Album
    Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
  • telephoto1telephoto1 Posts: 4,712 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If it was going to be an exact replica including planchet thickness, composition, etc. with a non-offensively sized "COPY" stamp on it, I'd be interested.
    Otherwise, meh.
    If it looks like the older GM copies pictured, I'm out.
    No offense but they have the look of that TV seller stuff to me.

    Edit to add: Original pieces of this period have a unique character which can't be accurately reproduced with modern planchets, equipment, etc. IMO.
    The fact that these will be done with a screw press and counterstamped by hand does intrigue me though; perhaps this method will capture the character of the original.

    RIP Mom- 1932-2012
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,499 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Just spoke with somebody at Monaco. Doesn't look as though there will be any problem with the design or Hobby Protection Act compliance. I do not think that stamping them with "COPY" will be necessary.

    TD >>



    That is good news that no "copy" will be necessary. Now I'm interested. Did you happen to ask about a price range?

    Thanks! MJ >>



    No.
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • brendanlambrendanlam Posts: 662 ✭✭✭
    anyone know if I can purchase it online?
  • AnkurJAnkurJ Posts: 11,366 ✭✭✭✭
    Just spoke with them.

    The design will be slightly different so copy will not be stamped on it.
    It will be about an ounce of gold.
    Will only be available at the ANA.
    It will be less than $2000!

    Woot!
    All coins kept in bank vaults.
    PCGS Registries
    Box of 20
    SeaEagleCoins: 11/14/54-4/5/12. Miss you Larry!

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