I'll never be able to figure out this Ebay seller.....

DoubleEagle59 · April 19, 2014 11:47AM

Item on Ebay: Early Bust Half NGCms64 (ex PCGSms64) but WE (the Ebay seller) think it's an ms66!

It's from a well known seller that all too often prices and self-grades a slabbed coin one or two grades higher!!

Even his 'details' coins are priced as non-detailed and still graded up one or two grades.

My point is this:

I really don't have a problem with a seller disagreeing with a TPG company's opinion (eventhough this seller does this much too often).

If the seller thinks the coin is two grades better, wouldn't he be better off selling it raw at the higher grade, rather than selling a PCGS ms64 as a 'self-graded' ms66 (and priced as an ms66)?

Additionally, if he is so sure the coin is better than the original grade, why isn't the coin resubmitted?

To sum up:

HOW IN HADES DOES A SELLER EXPECT TO GET A 'RAW' MS66 PRICE FOR A PCGS MS64??

TomB · April 19, 2014 11:52AM

If the coin is on consignment then the dealer might not have the ability (permission) to resubmit.

ACop · April 19, 2014 11:55AM

I think I know the seller of which you speak just by the post, and I think that speaks volumes.

bsshog40 · April 19, 2014 11:58AM

Doesn't ebay rules not allow a person to post grades unless it's in a legitimate slab? He's probably just using the ngc slab to offer his ms66 opinion to avoid getting his auction kicked out.

crypto79 · April 19, 2014 12:08PM

With all the crazy, crooked and sleazy sellers on ebay you chose to make a thread about Julian who has unimpeachable integrity and a history in the business that spans over 40 years??? lame- Looks like a pretty nice half to me

mrkbrown87 · April 19, 2014 12:09PM

<< Doesn't ebay rules not allow a person to post grades unless it's in a legitimate slab? He's probably just using the ngc slab to offer his ms66 opinion to avoid getting his auction kicked out. >>

If it's the same seller that bashes PCGS on every coin he has listed then I know i wnt ever deal with him again. Very rude person

coindeuce · April 19, 2014 12:14PM

I have no issues about the man, but the style of incessantly promoting a superior ability to the TPG's is rather incongruous. The remark about "We think it's a 66" reminds me of the Wizard of Oz.

LanceNewmanOCC · April 19, 2014 12:15PM

<< Item on Ebay: Early Bust Half NGCms64 (ex PCGSms64) but WE (the Ebay seller) think it's an ms66!

It's from a well known seller that all too often prices and self-grades a slabbed coin one or two grades higher!!

Even his 'details' coins are priced as non-detailed and still graded up one or two grades.

My point is this:

I really don't have a problem with a seller disagreeing with a TPG company's opinion (eventhough this seller does this much too often).

If the seller thinks the coin is two grades better, wouldn't he be better off selling it raw at the higher grade, rather than selling a PCGS ms64 as a 'self-graded' ms66 (and priced as an ms66)?

Additionally, if he is so sure the coin is better than the original grade, why isn't the coin resubmitted?

To sum up:

HOW IN HADES DOES A SELLER EXPECT TO GET A 'RAW' MS66 PRICE FOR A PCGS MS64?? >>

i can't even begin to describe how much easier it is to read like this and my desire to read it goes up! now when i see the following, it is, oh well, on to the next thread.

<< Item on Ebay: Early Bust Half NGCms64 (ex PCGSms64) but WE (the Ebay seller) think it's an ms66!It's from a well known seller that all too often prices and self-grades a slabbed coin one or two grades higher!!Even his 'details' coins are priced as non-detailed and still graded up one or two grades.My point is this:I really don't have a problem with a seller disagreeing with a TPG company's opinion (eventhough this seller does this much too often).If the seller thinks the coin is two grades better, wouldn't he be better off selling it raw at the higher grade, rather than selling a PCGS ms64 as a 'self-graded' ms66 (and priced as an ms66)?Additionally, if he is so sure the coin is better than the original grade, why isn't the coin resubmitted?To sum up:HOW IN HADES DOES A SELLER EXPECT TO GET A 'RAW' MS66 PRICE FOR A PCGS MS64?? >>

.

magikbilly · April 19, 2014 12:28PM

HOW IN HADES DOES A SELLER EXPECT TO GET A 'RAW' MS66 PRICE FOR A PCGS MS64??

Get legit gold sticker if warranted - thats one way to get 6 $ for what was called a 4. Or, take the same undergraded slabbed coin and sell for what you think it is worth to a collector who sees it as undergraded and pays what he thinks it is worth.
I don't always agree with TPG either - esp in other areas - I don't see any PCGS bashing in this auction.
I don't see a problem with seller showing the NCG64 and stating he thinks it grades higher. Is this unique?
Why this or why not that - not my area.

I've only interacted with Julian on these boards re the Proof (?) Columbian diagnostics and like things and he was always nice to me and thankful for my input.

Eric

DoubleEagle59 · April 19, 2014 12:36PM

<< With all the crazy, crooked and sleazy sellers on ebay you chose to make a thread about Julian who has unimpeachable integrity and a history in the business that spans over 40 years??? lame- Looks like a pretty nice half to me >>

I'm not questioning his integrity.

I'm questioning his selling technique of trying to sell a pcgs ms64 coin for ms66 money.

Just doesn't make any sense at all.

It would make sense if he did this once out of perhaps 100 coins he has for sale.

But there is a definite pattern of overgrading what PCGS and NGC says and with disagreeing (repeatedly) with the 'details' grade.

derryb · April 19, 2014 12:47PM

If Julian says it looks 66 then it at least has a shot at 66.

mercurydimeguy · April 19, 2014 12:53PM

A lot of Julian's eBay auctions have a best offer feature.

I suspect what he is asking and what he would accept are probably different. I wild suggest you make an offer if you like a piece amd see where you guys end up m

DoubleEagle59 · April 19, 2014 12:54PM

<< If Julian says it looks 66 then it at least has a shot at 66. >>

I don't personally know the man, but...

If this is so and if this seller can repeatedly be so sure that most of his coins are 2 grades better than PCGS and NGC, then either: 1) Don't even bother using them in the first place and sell the coin raw; or 2) resubmit them and get the higher grade.

RareBronzeCollector · April 19, 2014 12:55PM

One possibility for why it is NOT being sold raw is that eBay requires coins with
a starting price of more than $2500 to be certified....

DoubleEagle59 · April 19, 2014 12:56PM

<< A lot of Julian's eBay auctions have a best offer feature.

I suspect what he is asking and what he would accept are probably different. I wild suggest you make an offer if you like a piece amd see where you guys end up m >>

My personal experience tells me he sticks very close to the advertised Ebay price.

BryceM · April 19, 2014 12:57PM

I don't know anything about the parties involved ........ but perhaps he buys mostly coins that he thinks are exceptionally undergraded. Would make sense then that he describes many of his coins thusly.

DoubleEagle59 · April 19, 2014 1:00PM

<< One possibility for why it is NOT being sold raw is that eBay requires coins with
a starting price of more than $2500 to be certified.... >>

That's a very valid point and something I never thought of.

As I said earlier though, if it was one or two coins that were priced this way, I'd have no problem with it, but there's just too many that follow this pattern.

Anyways, I've said my peace and I am finished with this thread.

Raybo · April 19, 2014 1:04PM

If the grade doesn't fit than resubmit.

Wabbit2313 · April 19, 2014 1:09PM

I was looking at 1884-S Morgans the other day and I remembered seeingTHIS COIN . Anacs, cleaned AU-53 details, $625.00 !!!

That's $100 higher than I just sold my problem free PCGS AU-55, and it took forever to sell!

coppertoning · April 19, 2014 1:14PM

<< 

<< A lot of Julian's eBay auctions have a best offer feature.

I suspect what he is asking and what he would accept are probably different. I wild suggest you make an offer if you like a piece amd see where you guys end up m >>

My personal experience tells me he sticks very close to the advertised Ebay price. >>

This is my experience also. I just put him on my list of sellers with items not to show.

Bad model that he has apparently made work. I wonder if he has always been this way? I doubt it.

TwoSides2aCoin · April 19, 2014 1:19PM

I've been trying to figure a few things out, with regards to a

coin dealer.

mrkbrown87 · April 19, 2014 1:52PM

<< 

<< 

<< A lot of Julian's eBay auctions have a best offer feature.

I suspect what he is asking and what he would accept are probably different. I wild suggest you make an offer if you like a piece amd see where you guys end up m >>

My personal experience tells me he sticks very close to the advertised Ebay price. >>

This is my experience also. I just put him on my list of sellers with items not to show.

Bad model that he has apparently made work. I wonder if he has always been this way? I doubt it. >>

Yes I've made several buys with him and the only way to haggle him was to drive 1.5 hours to his B@M and work a deal in person.

lkeigwin · April 19, 2014 2:52PM

<< I don't know anything about the parties involved ........ but perhaps he buys mostly coins that he thinks are exceptionally undergraded. Would make sense then that he describes many of his coins thusly. >>

This is my impression.

I don't know Julian but I know his credentials.
Lance.

OldIndianNutKase · April 19, 2014 3:02PM

I think the market should make that determination, in a NO RESERVE auction. The seller is trying to sell his alleged credentials instead of the merits of the coin.

OINK

3keepSECRETif2rDEAD · April 19, 2014 3:07PM

<< 

<< Doesn't ebay rules not allow a person to post grades unless it's in a legitimate slab? He's probably just using the ngc slab to offer his ms66 opinion to avoid getting his auction kicked out. >>

If it's the same seller that bashes PCGS on every coin he has listed then I know i wnt ever deal with him again. Very rude person >>

...I'm i missing something here or isn't this guy on The Board of Experts at PCGS???

Erik

magikbilly · April 19, 2014 3:16PM

<< 

<< 

<< Doesn't ebay rules not allow a person to post grades unless it's in a legitimate slab? He's probably just using the ngc slab to offer his ms66 opinion to avoid getting his auction kicked out. >>

If it's the same seller that bashes PCGS on every coin he has listed then I know i wnt ever deal with him again. Very rude person >>

...I'm i missing something here or isn't this guy on The Board of Experts at PCGS???

Erik >>

mmm-hmmmm

That is Julian.
"alleged credentials" - I suggest Google first, OldIndianNutKase. Julian used to post here as well.

Eric

OldIndianNutKase · April 19, 2014 3:20PM

<<...I'm i missing something here or isn't this guy on The Board of Experts at PCGS???>>

Funny how all on the PCGS Board of Experts are dealers. Perhaps they are not really collector oriented????????

OINK

3keepSECRETif2rDEAD · April 19, 2014 3:26PM

<< <<...I'm i missing something here or isn't this guy on The Board of Experts at PCGS???>>

Funny how all on the PCGS Board of Experts are dealers. Perhaps they are not really collector oriented????????

OINK >>

It's not to funny considering that's how it was structured to be from the very beginning. I have no problem with it but to each their own

Erik

magikbilly · April 19, 2014 3:28PM

<< <<...I'm i missing something here or isn't this guy on The Board of Experts at PCGS???>>

Funny how all on the PCGS Board of Experts are dealers. Perhaps they are not really collector oriented????????

OINK >>

You never heard of Julian and now this? Your first speculation, "alleged credentials", did not pan out so well. Making a broader swipe suggesting some conflict of interest about the entire PCGS Board of Experts, at one go, here at their own message board...is...a good idea?

Eric

shorecoll · April 19, 2014 10:39PM

What's funny is if JA (CAC) said something was two grades undergraded, few would question it. Julian's credentials are at least as solid as JA's.

Casman · April 19, 2014 10:55PM

I think it's funny that it's assumed he does his own listings. Heck, if I put in 40 years, the last thing I'd do is waste my time photographing 6,000 coins, and list them on Ebay. Then again, maybe he does run the entire show.

DollarAfterDollar · April 19, 2014 11:05PM

This is rather laughable to me. Everybody who ever attempted to grade a coin can pick a number between 1 and 70 and not (necessarily) be wrong. Grading leaves a lot of room for interpretation. Julian is exploiting this simple fact combined with his credentials.

If some Buyer plops down the dollars requested they accept the offer. The coins are posted so that he can make money and keep his name and reputation out there. It's always Buyer beware.

On the other hand, he gets these coins from somewhere. I'd be willing to wager that there's never any dispute about the assigned grade actually being higher when the coins are bought.

tradedollarnut · April 19, 2014 11:41PM

<< What's funny is if JA (CAC) said something was two grades undergraded, few would question it. Julian's credentials are at least as solid as JA's. >>

The difference is that there is an inherent conflict of interest to call one's own coin PQ

crypto79 · April 19, 2014 11:42PM

One thing getting in the way of a good bash thread but does anyone here not think that the coin is stunningly original and perhaps undergraded based off your first impression? Or are a bunch of marginal posters content to bash a good man because he doesn't conform to their novice opinions of eBay pricing/listing etiquette. This type of garbage is why I grew tried of ATS.

magikbilly · April 19, 2014 11:50PM

Maybe it's me but I thought it clearly undergraded from the pics. Certainly more than strong for the grade assigned. Maybe that is why I did not understand the thread better.

Eric

LindeDad · April 19, 2014 11:54PM

<< I'll never be able to figure out this Ebay seller..... >>

Hint an eBay store is really cheap Advertisement in this business.

coppertoning · April 20, 2014 12:14AM

<< What's funny is if JA (CAC) said something was two grades undergraded, few would question it. Julian's credentials are at least as solid as JA's. >>

Does Jullian pay 65 money for the yellow anacs 63 he feels is undergraded?

Wabbit2313 · April 20, 2014 12:36AM

My all time favorite listing of his:

You can have this lovely 1880-O Morgan MS-64 graded coin for a mere $34500.00. Nevermind that they sell for $1500-$2000. I still can't figure out why it has been for sale for 2 years?

gypsylea · April 20, 2014 12:44AM

During the early 90's I bought a few coins from Julian at various FUN shows. I wasn't playing at the top end, and I never went to a FUN show where I didn't spend at leas 2 days and look through a lot of auction lots. My impressions were that he was competitive on things that weren't all that unusual, but that when he felt he had something out of the ordinary, he was (shall we say) aggressive and confident in his pricing. An entirely pleasant man to deal with, and he could spot a problem coin from across the room. I doubt much has changed

shorecoll · April 20, 2014 1:07AM

"The difference is that one of the above has an inherent conflict of interest... "

JA is a market maker...so don't they both have conflicts of interest?

tradedollarnut · April 20, 2014 1:11AM

<< "The difference is that one of the above has an inherent conflict of interest... "

JA is a market maker...so don't they both have conflicts of interest? >>

There is a HUGE difference between a dealer saying their own coin is PQ and charging two grades up for it vs an independent company saying someone else's coin is PQ, buying it and then marketing it. If you cannot see that then I cannot help you.

This is less a reflection on the thread at hand and more a defense of JA.

derryb · April 20, 2014 1:16AM

if you do not agree with a seller's description, don't buy the coin, move on. This particular seller is known to ask top dollar on ebay but is also know to sell for less. Hyping one's own product is always a "conflict of interest" - if it were a crime all salesmen would be in jail.

Broadstruck · April 20, 2014 1:17AM

In 30 years I've had nothing but pleasant experiences with Julian and he was one of the reasons I attended major shows in my early teens. Julian was extremely YN friendly and always willing to spend quality time make sure that each visit to his table was a learning experience. Even back then he was always interested in seeing what I had to sell and paid strong prices which at the time might have been a rainbow toned MS62 common date raw Peace $1 which there was no market for and I'm sure he didn't need. Once I got my drivers licensee I would hit all the local B&M's regularly and stumbled across a fresh IHC set a local doctor had just sold to pay for his daughters wedding. I spent 2 hours sweating over this collection as I had first shot but only had enough money for 1 coin. Now I've never really liked IHC's so I knew this would be sold and bought the most gorgeous 1860 out of the set. Since this was in the neanderthal per-internet era of this hobby I called Julian to see if he would handle it via consignment. I gave him a number I wanted for it and 5 weeks later a check shows up for twice my ask. This wasn't the only time as I recall mailing him some exposition medals back then with all the associated packaging materials and again weeks later a check would arrive far exceeding what I asked for. Over the course of the following decades Julian has still always paid me very strong for quality material and has never glanced at a sheet.

DollarAfterDollar · April 20, 2014 4:42AM

Another element to this that can't be lost is that posting a suggested grade of a raw unc coin on E-Bay is forbidden but questioning the grade on one that's slabbed by one of the recognized TPG's is permissible? I blame E-Bay for a loophole this obvious.

bronco2078 · April 20, 2014 5:14AM

<< Another element to this that can't be lost is that posting a suggested grade of a raw unc coin on E-Bay is forbidden but questioning the grade on one that's slabbed by one of the recognized TPG's is permissible? I blame E-Bay for a loophole this obvious. >>

You can post a grade of a raw coin on ebay. They only complain about a numerical grade. VF is fine VF-20 triggers a warning.

The TPG's aren't infallible . Its permissible to question the grade on the slab. Half the threads on this board involve such questions.

derryb · April 20, 2014 5:31AM

seller properly described what he is selling and gave his opinion of the TPG grade. Would he be wrong to give an opinion that it was overgraded by the TPG?

DollarAfterDollar · April 20, 2014 6:02AM

That's a silly question. It's never going to happen.

19Lyds · April 20, 2014 6:22AM

Julian's business model has worked very well for him over the years and I just do not have a problem with that.

Look, the whole purpose behind a TPG is to get opinions from professionals who are in the business of "KNOWING" what coins should sell for. These "opinions" simply bolster what a dealer already knows and the dealer, who knows "his" stuff, can either agree or disagree.

I mean, it's not like folks have NOT come on here posting before and after shots of coins which have upgraded by 1 and sometimes 2 points.

Opinions change. Opinions from TPG's change. We've all seen it and we all know it either from 1st hand experience for from reading threads which provide evidence.

BTW, Julian does not ALWAYS over price his coins as I purchased an unattributed MS65 1964-D Type C Washington from him at half of what the price guide values were. The coin was identified by Julian as a Type C so he knew exactly what is was.

SoCalBigMark · April 20, 2014 6:31AM

Hard to argue the business model of a multi millionaire.

ACop · April 20, 2014 7:23AM

<< What's funny is if JA (CAC) said something was two grades undergraded, few would question it. Julian's credentials are at least as solid as JA's. >>

Yeah, but no sticker no care.

Wabbit2313 · April 20, 2014 8:19AM

With most of those prices, Jesus himself would have to start stickering coins before I spent that kind of dough!

I'll never be able to figure out this Ebay seller.....

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