Options
I'll never be able to figure out this Ebay seller.....
DoubleEagle59
Posts: 8,200 ✭✭✭✭✭
Item on Ebay: Early Bust Half NGCms64 (ex PCGSms64) but WE (the Ebay seller) think it's an ms66!
It's from a well known seller that all too often prices and self-grades a slabbed coin one or two grades higher!!
Even his 'details' coins are priced as non-detailed and still graded up one or two grades.
My point is this:
I really don't have a problem with a seller disagreeing with a TPG company's opinion (eventhough this seller does this much too often).
If the seller thinks the coin is two grades better, wouldn't he be better off selling it raw at the higher grade, rather than selling a PCGS ms64 as a 'self-graded' ms66 (and priced as an ms66)?
Additionally, if he is so sure the coin is better than the original grade, why isn't the coin resubmitted?
To sum up:
HOW IN HADES DOES A SELLER EXPECT TO GET A 'RAW' MS66 PRICE FOR A PCGS MS64??
It's from a well known seller that all too often prices and self-grades a slabbed coin one or two grades higher!!
Even his 'details' coins are priced as non-detailed and still graded up one or two grades.
My point is this:
I really don't have a problem with a seller disagreeing with a TPG company's opinion (eventhough this seller does this much too often).
If the seller thinks the coin is two grades better, wouldn't he be better off selling it raw at the higher grade, rather than selling a PCGS ms64 as a 'self-graded' ms66 (and priced as an ms66)?
Additionally, if he is so sure the coin is better than the original grade, why isn't the coin resubmitted?
To sum up:
HOW IN HADES DOES A SELLER EXPECT TO GET A 'RAW' MS66 PRICE FOR A PCGS MS64??
"Gold is money, and nothing else" (JP Morgan, 1912)
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
0
Comments
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
My Original Song Written to my late wife-"Plus other original music by me"
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL8A11CC8CC6093D80
https://n1m.com/bobbysmith1
<< <i>Doesn't ebay rules not allow a person to post grades unless it's in a legitimate slab? He's probably just using the ngc slab to offer his ms66 opinion to avoid getting his auction kicked out. >>
If it's the same seller that bashes PCGS on every coin he has listed then I know i wnt ever deal with him again. Very rude person
Hoard the keys
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.americanlegacycoins.com
<< <i>Item on Ebay: Early Bust Half NGCms64 (ex PCGSms64) but WE (the Ebay seller) think it's an ms66!
It's from a well known seller that all too often prices and self-grades a slabbed coin one or two grades higher!!
Even his 'details' coins are priced as non-detailed and still graded up one or two grades.
My point is this:
I really don't have a problem with a seller disagreeing with a TPG company's opinion (eventhough this seller does this much too often).
If the seller thinks the coin is two grades better, wouldn't he be better off selling it raw at the higher grade, rather than selling a PCGS ms64 as a 'self-graded' ms66 (and priced as an ms66)?
Additionally, if he is so sure the coin is better than the original grade, why isn't the coin resubmitted?
To sum up:
HOW IN HADES DOES A SELLER EXPECT TO GET A 'RAW' MS66 PRICE FOR A PCGS MS64?? >>
i can't even begin to describe how much easier it is to read like this and my desire to read it goes up! now when i see the following, it is, oh well, on to the next thread.
<< <i>Item on Ebay: Early Bust Half NGCms64 (ex PCGSms64) but WE (the Ebay seller) think it's an ms66!It's from a well known seller that all too often prices and self-grades a slabbed coin one or two grades higher!!Even his 'details' coins are priced as non-detailed and still graded up one or two grades.My point is this:I really don't have a problem with a seller disagreeing with a TPG company's opinion (eventhough this seller does this much too often).If the seller thinks the coin is two grades better, wouldn't he be better off selling it raw at the higher grade, rather than selling a PCGS ms64 as a 'self-graded' ms66 (and priced as an ms66)?Additionally, if he is so sure the coin is better than the original grade, why isn't the coin resubmitted?To sum up:HOW IN HADES DOES A SELLER EXPECT TO GET A 'RAW' MS66 PRICE FOR A PCGS MS64?? >>
.
<--- look what's behind the mask! - cool link 1/NO ~ 2/NNP ~ 3/NNC ~ 4/CF ~ 5/PG ~ 6/Cert ~ 7/NGC 7a/NGC pop~ 8/NGCF ~ 9/HA archives ~ 10/PM ~ 11/NM ~ 12/ANACS cert ~ 13/ANACS pop - report fakes 1/ACEF ~ report fakes/thefts 1/NCIS - Numi-Classes SS ~ Bass ~ Transcribed Docs NNP - clashed coins - error training - V V mm styles -
Get legit gold sticker if warranted - thats one way to get 6 $ for what was called a 4. Or, take the same undergraded slabbed coin and sell for what you think it is worth to a collector who sees it as undergraded and pays what he thinks it is worth.
I don't always agree with TPG either - esp in other areas - I don't see any PCGS bashing in this auction.
I don't see a problem with seller showing the NCG64 and stating he thinks it grades higher. Is this unique?
Why this or why not that - not my area.
I've only interacted with Julian on these boards re the Proof (?) Columbian diagnostics and like things and he was always nice to me and thankful for my input.
Eric
<< <i>With all the crazy, crooked and sleazy sellers on ebay you chose to make a thread about Julian who has unimpeachable integrity and a history in the business that spans over 40 years??? lame- Looks like a pretty nice half to me >>
I'm not questioning his integrity.
I'm questioning his selling technique of trying to sell a pcgs ms64 coin for ms66 money.
Just doesn't make any sense at all.
It would make sense if he did this once out of perhaps 100 coins he has for sale.
But there is a definite pattern of overgrading what PCGS and NGC says and with disagreeing (repeatedly) with the 'details' grade.
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt
I suspect what he is asking and what he would accept are probably different. I wild suggest you make an offer if you like a piece amd see where you guys end up m
<< <i>If Julian says it looks 66 then it at least has a shot at 66. >>
I don't personally know the man, but...
If this is so and if this seller can repeatedly be so sure that most of his coins are 2 grades better than PCGS and NGC, then either: 1) Don't even bother using them in the first place and sell the coin raw; or 2) resubmit them and get the higher grade.
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
a starting price of more than $2500 to be certified....
<< <i>A lot of Julian's eBay auctions have a best offer feature.
I suspect what he is asking and what he would accept are probably different. I wild suggest you make an offer if you like a piece amd see where you guys end up m >>
My personal experience tells me he sticks very close to the advertised Ebay price.
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
<< <i>One possibility for why it is NOT being sold raw is that eBay requires coins with
a starting price of more than $2500 to be certified.... >>
That's a very valid point and something I never thought of.
As I said earlier though, if it was one or two coins that were priced this way, I'd have no problem with it, but there's just too many that follow this pattern.
Anyways, I've said my peace and I am finished with this thread.
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
I was looking at 1884-S Morgans the other day and I remembered seeingTHIS COIN . Anacs, cleaned AU-53 details, $625.00 !!!
That's $100 higher than I just sold my problem free PCGS AU-55, and it took forever to sell!
<< <i>
<< <i>A lot of Julian's eBay auctions have a best offer feature.
I suspect what he is asking and what he would accept are probably different. I wild suggest you make an offer if you like a piece amd see where you guys end up m >>
My personal experience tells me he sticks very close to the advertised Ebay price. >>
This is my experience also. I just put him on my list of sellers with items not to show.
Bad model that he has apparently made work. I wonder if he has always been this way? I doubt it.
coin dealer.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>A lot of Julian's eBay auctions have a best offer feature.
I suspect what he is asking and what he would accept are probably different. I wild suggest you make an offer if you like a piece amd see where you guys end up m >>
My personal experience tells me he sticks very close to the advertised Ebay price. >>
This is my experience also. I just put him on my list of sellers with items not to show.
Bad model that he has apparently made work. I wonder if he has always been this way? I doubt it. >>
Yes I've made several buys with him and the only way to haggle him was to drive 1.5 hours to his B@M and work a deal in person.
Hoard the keys
<< <i>I don't know anything about the parties involved ........ but perhaps he buys mostly coins that he thinks are exceptionally undergraded. Would make sense then that he describes many of his coins thusly. >>
This is my impression.
I don't know Julian but I know his credentials.
Lance.
OINK
<< <i>
<< <i>Doesn't ebay rules not allow a person to post grades unless it's in a legitimate slab? He's probably just using the ngc slab to offer his ms66 opinion to avoid getting his auction kicked out. >>
If it's the same seller that bashes PCGS on every coin he has listed then I know i wnt ever deal with him again. Very rude person >>
...I'm i missing something here or isn't this guy on The Board of Experts at PCGS???
Erik
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Doesn't ebay rules not allow a person to post grades unless it's in a legitimate slab? He's probably just using the ngc slab to offer his ms66 opinion to avoid getting his auction kicked out. >>
If it's the same seller that bashes PCGS on every coin he has listed then I know i wnt ever deal with him again. Very rude person >>
...I'm i missing something here or isn't this guy on The Board of Experts at PCGS???
Erik >>
mmm-hmmmm
That is Julian.
"alleged credentials" - I suggest Google first, OldIndianNutKase. Julian used to post here as well.
Eric
Funny how all on the PCGS Board of Experts are dealers. Perhaps they are not really collector oriented????????
OINK
<< <i><<...I'm i missing something here or isn't this guy on The Board of Experts at PCGS???>>
Funny how all on the PCGS Board of Experts are dealers. Perhaps they are not really collector oriented????????
OINK >>
It's not to funny considering that's how it was structured to be from the very beginning. I have no problem with it but to each their own
Erik
<< <i><<...I'm i missing something here or isn't this guy on The Board of Experts at PCGS???>>
Funny how all on the PCGS Board of Experts are dealers. Perhaps they are not really collector oriented????????
OINK >>
You never heard of Julian and now this? Your first speculation, "alleged credentials", did not pan out so well. Making a broader swipe suggesting some conflict of interest about the entire PCGS Board of Experts, at one go, here at their own message board...is...a good idea?
Eric
This is rather laughable to me. Everybody who ever attempted to grade a coin can pick a number between 1 and 70 and not (necessarily) be wrong. Grading leaves a lot of room for interpretation. Julian is exploiting this simple fact combined with his credentials.
If some Buyer plops down the dollars requested they accept the offer. The coins are posted so that he can make money and keep his name and reputation out there. It's always Buyer beware.
On the other hand, he gets these coins from somewhere. I'd be willing to wager that there's never any dispute about the assigned grade actually being higher when the coins are bought.
<< <i>What's funny is if JA (CAC) said something was two grades undergraded, few would question it. Julian's credentials are at least as solid as JA's. >>
The difference is that there is an inherent conflict of interest to call one's own coin PQ
Eric
<< <i>I'll never be able to figure out this Ebay seller..... >>
Hint an eBay store is really cheap Advertisement in this business.
<< <i>What's funny is if JA (CAC) said something was two grades undergraded, few would question it. Julian's credentials are at least as solid as JA's. >>
Does Jullian pay 65 money for the yellow anacs 63 he feels is undergraded?
You can have this lovely 1880-O Morgan MS-64 graded coin for a mere $34500.00. Nevermind that they sell for $1500-$2000. I still can't figure out why it has been for sale for 2 years?
JA is a market maker...so don't they both have conflicts of interest?
<< <i>"The difference is that one of the above has an inherent conflict of interest... "
JA is a market maker...so don't they both have conflicts of interest? >>
There is a HUGE difference between a dealer saying their own coin is PQ and charging two grades up for it vs an independent company saying someone else's coin is PQ, buying it and then marketing it. If you cannot see that then I cannot help you.
This is less a reflection on the thread at hand and more a defense of JA.
Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt
<< <i>Another element to this that can't be lost is that posting a suggested grade of a raw unc coin on E-Bay is forbidden but questioning the grade on one that's slabbed by one of the recognized TPG's is permissible? I blame E-Bay for a loophole this obvious. >>
You can post a grade of a raw coin on ebay. They only complain about a numerical grade. VF is fine VF-20 triggers a warning.
The TPG's aren't infallible . Its permissible to question the grade on the slab. Half the threads on this board involve such questions.
Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt
Look, the whole purpose behind a TPG is to get opinions from professionals who are in the business of "KNOWING" what coins should sell for. These "opinions" simply bolster what a dealer already knows and the dealer, who knows "his" stuff, can either agree or disagree.
I mean, it's not like folks have NOT come on here posting before and after shots of coins which have upgraded by 1 and sometimes 2 points.
Opinions change. Opinions from TPG's change. We've all seen it and we all know it either from 1st hand experience for from reading threads which provide evidence.
BTW, Julian does not ALWAYS over price his coins as I purchased an unattributed MS65 1964-D Type C Washington from him at half of what the price guide values were. The coin was identified by Julian as a Type C so he knew exactly what is was.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>What's funny is if JA (CAC) said something was two grades undergraded, few would question it. Julian's credentials are at least as solid as JA's. >>
Yeah, but no sticker no care.
With most of those prices, Jesus himself would have to start stickering coins before I spent that kind of dough!