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I just got blown away on a 1942 T2 Proof Jefferson in the Heritage sale

mingotmingot Posts: 1,805 ✭✭✭
here is the auction

Pretty ridiculous price, but I was in at a pretty high level myself.

I wanted it at 2.5x recent auction prices, but I guess someone else wanted it at 4.5x that level.

Man, this coin had a LOT going for it, but this is still shocking.

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    keyman64keyman64 Posts: 15,455 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yikes! There are 19 with CAC stickers on them at this grade level. Just wait until you find another one and be thankful that you are NOT BURRIED in this one. Wowzers.
    "If it's not fun, it's not worth it." - KeyMan64
    Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners. :smile:
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    DennisHDennisH Posts: 13,963 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I was watching the 1945-P Jefferson in PCGS-67 (non-FS with gorgeous color). It went for $1,380 with the juice! image
    When in doubt, don't.
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    FredFFredF Posts: 526 ✭✭✭
    Wow - I had been watching that one myself. It sure looked nice from the photos, but I guess two different people thought it was worth much more than my bid.

    -Fred

    Successful BST (me as buyer) with: Collectorcoins, PipestonePete, JasonRiffeRareCoins

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    stephunterstephunter Posts: 2,324 ✭✭✭
    The 50-D in the P67 holder looked nice.
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    mkman123mkman123 Posts: 6,849 ✭✭✭✭
    Jeffs are pricey!!
    Successful Buying and Selling transactions with:

    Many members on this forum that now it cannot fit in my signature. Please ask for entire list.
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    ManorcourtmanManorcourtman Posts: 7,900 ✭✭✭✭
    Ya gotta pay to play.
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    BaronVonBaughBaronVonBaugh Posts: 1,837 ✭✭✭✭
    I dropped out on that one a long time ago. I bought a 1938 in PR67 though.
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    Nice coin. I find it hard to believe the listed sale price though...
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    BaronVonBaughBaronVonBaugh Posts: 1,837 ✭✭✭✭
    Two people must have thought that it should be in a 68 holder. I can't imagine any other reason to bid that strongly on it.
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    << <i>Nice coin. I find it hard to believe the listed sale price though... >>



    Me too. The coin is nice, but it isn't that nice.
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    leothelyonleothelyon Posts: 8,356 ✭✭✭✭✭
    That bettter be one frosty deep mirror proof for that price, the photos don't show. And I don't like what I see on the cheek. Did you see this coin personally?
    I'm happy with my frosty PR66 example and I had to look through quite a few before settling. Locating the frosty early proofs is what collecting coins is all about. Why anyone would settle for less.
    How would you know if this coin was a reject from someone's collection?
    Or an upgrade from a PR66 holder?
    Besides the cheek marks, there are scratches on the plastic which indicates the slab has been handled a bit and carelessly.

    Again, have you seen the coin?


    image

    The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!

    My Jefferson Nickel Collection

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    mingotmingot Posts: 1,805 ✭✭✭
    I can't speak on why it went for quite so much money, but I figured I would share why I was willing to "pay up" (even though not enough).

    42T2 proof coins were often made from over polished dies. If you go back and check photographs from past auctions pay particular attention to the ribbon. It's usually nearly polished off and has signs of hand re-engraving. I have a strong suspicion that T1 reverse dies that had already been used were polished heavily, had the P mintmark stamped, and were pressed back into service. The dies that struck this coin were not over polished and everything that should be there was, even if slightly soft (not the strike, though -- i think the features of the die had likely softened from previous use). I went back four years to find another example in PCGS 67 plastic that had had been struck from an "unmolested" die.

    The strike was strong. Not much to say here, but if you start looking at these proofs and looking at the proofs often times the jaw will be rough were the planchet was not fully struck up. This one didn't have that problem.

    The color / surfaces - I didn't want a hazy or wildly toned coin and this coin was neither of those. I ALSO didn't want a coin that looked like cleaned silverware, which can be common with these after a dip. This coin was a great balance.

    Anyhow, the hunt continues.

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    mingotmingot Posts: 1,805 ✭✭✭
    Leo, you don't like any coin that you don't own.

    But to answer, no, I didn't. I had to settle with making a cataloger pull the coin and subjecting himself to my grilling.
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    leothelyonleothelyon Posts: 8,356 ✭✭✭✭✭
    There are a few out there I'd like to own, 3-4 I'd like back.


    image

    The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!

    My Jefferson Nickel Collection

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    leothelyonleothelyon Posts: 8,356 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I have a strong suspicion that T1 reverse dies that had already been used were polished heavily, had the P mintmark stamped, and were pressed back into service.

    There's really no reason why they wouldn't have reused the obverse dies as well in your scenario. Interesting theory though.

    The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!

    My Jefferson Nickel Collection

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    mingotmingot Posts: 1,805 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I have a strong suspicion that T1 reverse dies that had already been used were polished heavily, had the P mintmark stamped, and were pressed back into service.

    There's really no reason why they wouldn't have reused the obverse dies as well in your scenario. Interesting theory though. >>



    Oh, I am almost sure the obverse dies were re-used as they seemed to really suffer from the polished off ribbon/re-engraving.

    image
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    leothelyonleothelyon Posts: 8,356 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Lucky me, my ribbon shows very strong detail as does the entire coin.


    image

    The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!

    My Jefferson Nickel Collection

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    keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
    i'll take my coin over the over-priced Heritage example which certainly appears "average" judging by the pictures only. placing so much value on the slight detail you mentioned seems absurd to me when judging the coins other attributes which leave me wanting.

    image
    image
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    BigDowgieBigDowgie Posts: 1,749 ✭✭✭✭
    From the pictures, with the lack of any obvious proof-like surfaces similar to keets coin, one might take it as a nice business strike? The steps also look quite deficient. Again from the pictures, it appears the 6th step is not there? I do not recall ever seeing a 42-P T2 proof without full 6 steps. Adding to my though that this could be a very nice business strike. All this being said, no way I'd even come close to that money. The CAC stiker on this one makes you question the validity of CAC.
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    mingotmingot Posts: 1,805 ✭✭✭
    The pictures were not good at all, but it's heritage, so I called. Calling the auction house is admittedly not as good as seeing the coin in hand, but I've always gotten honest answers from the catalogers and have even been told in the past that (after describing what I was looking for) "this is not the coin for you". I did specifically ask about the brilliance and the step detail (among many others) and was satisfied with the answer. I think it would have been a nice coin, but not for the money it went for -- seems insane to me. I think keyman had it right.



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    keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
    also, since you seem to be looking for a "white" coin i wouldn't expect this to be the one since it seems to have subtle rim tone, especially on the reverse.
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    mingotmingot Posts: 1,805 ✭✭✭


    << <i>also, since you seem to be looking for a "white" coin i wouldn't expect this to be the one since it seems to have subtle rim tone, especially on the reverse. >>



    I moved off of that requirement for the type 2 specifically because white is generally going to mean dipped and I do not like the way silver nickels tend to look after a dip -- like someone just dipped a piece of silverware in tarnx.

    I'm always willing to break my own rules if I think I'll end up with a better looking coin. image

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