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Thread Title: PCGS on "Counterstamped" coins
Created On Saturday March 10, 2012 7:36 AM


RevDrBlimber
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Saturday March 10, 2012 7:36 AM

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I recently sent in a Bust quarter with an "L" counterstamp to be certified by PCGS; I was not aware that they consider all these coins "damaged", i.e., deserving of the "98" number. Not so with the "chopmarked" trade dollars which is a similar issue, both NGC and PCGS grade these coins. Why the refusal to give a numerical grade to these coins, if the chopmarked coins do get a number?

One of the latest theories on the origin of "E" and "L" counterstamps are that there was a religious sect in Pennsylvania, the Economites who counterstruck these coins as a voting measure. The "E" and the "L"s were opposing factions within this group apparently.

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'Justice is the settled and permanent intention of rendering to each man his rights.' (Roman. Justinian, Institutions, I. i)

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savoyspecial
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Saturday March 10, 2012 7:44 AM

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NGC will straight grade them

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RevDrBlimber
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Saturday March 10, 2012 8:24 AM

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I haven't gotten the coin back yet. On the site it says it was the 1825/4/(2) which is probably impossible since all known counterstamped Bust quarters were the 1825/3; or the "L" counterstamp is counterfeit, but it looked real to me and the dealer.

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'Justice is the settled and permanent intention of rendering to each man his rights.' (Roman. Justinian, Institutions, I. i)

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RichieURich
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Saturday March 10, 2012 9:11 AM

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<< I haven't gotten the coin back yet. On the site it says it was the 1825/4/(2) which is probably impossible since all known counterstamped Bust quarters were the 1825/3; or the "L" counterstamp is counterfeit, but it looked real to me and the dealer. >>



PCGS now slabs ALL 1825 quarters as 1825/4/(2). If you want the B-1, B-2 or B-3 designation on the slab, you would have had to pay an additional $24 for variety attribution.

If you aren't sure how PCGS will attribute a coin, it might save you some money to ask the question here, before you submit the coin. Just a suggestion.

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Rich Uhrich Rare U. S. Coins Inc. An authorized PCGS dealer.

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TomB
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Saturday March 10, 2012 9:17 AM

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RichieURich is correct, as usual, with respect to how PCGS now designates all 1825 quarters. The E & L vs. chopmarks is a comparison I have read previously and there is some validity to it. However, there is also a huge difference between the two in that the chopmark dollars have a long history of chops from their point of usage, which was their intended market in Asia. The E & L counterstamped coins, though, have a murky history and no one truly knows the story behind these. I am familiar with the theories, but no one has established these as fact.

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Thomas Bush Numismatics & Numismatic Photography and follow my updates on Facebook


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ebaybuyer
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Saturday March 10, 2012 10:02 AM

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odd... isnt a counterstamped or chop marked coin a damaged coin and still a damaged coin no matter what the circumstances behind the damage ?

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"how much of that coin's value is plastic and bean" ??

Edited: Saturday March 10, 2012 at 10:03 AM by ebaybuyer

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RevDrBlimber
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Saturday March 10, 2012 10:08 AM

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Will PCGS verify the "L" counterstamp as real? I do not see any such certified coins, i.e. the 1825 Bust quarter "L" counterstamp, PCGS graded, on any venue on an online site.

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'Justice is the settled and permanent intention of rendering to each man his rights.' (Roman. Justinian, Institutions, I. i)

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RevDrBlimber
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Saturday March 10, 2012 10:09 AM

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<< odd... isnt a counterstamped or chop marked coin a damaged coin and still a damaged coin no matter what the circumstances behind the damage ? >>



NGC grades them with a number.

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'Justice is the settled and permanent intention of rendering to each man his rights.' (Roman. Justinian, Institutions, I. i)

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mozin
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Saturday March 10, 2012 12:35 PM

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Some of you might be surprised at me, but I am one of those considering the "E" and the "L" Capped Bust 1825 Quarters as damaged. PCGS should not grade them. I know that I will never buy one of them. Hope I have not offended anyone.




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I collect Capped Bust series by variety in PCGS AU/MS grades.

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Realone
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Saturday March 10, 2012 12:43 PM

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<< Some of you might be surprised at me, but I am one of those considering the "E" and the "L" Capped Bust 1825 Quarters as damaged. PCGS should not grade them. I know that I will never buy one of them. Hope I have not offended anyone. >>



Shouldn't it be the same for chopmarked or because there are more of them and thus more interest and demand our hosts caved in and made an exception to the rule of damaged coins not being graded.

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'Never give in, never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy'.
FYI: I only collect naturally toned coins with original surfaces and nothing else, trust me nothing else!
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mozin
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Saturday March 10, 2012 3:26 PM

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<<

<< Some of you might be surprised at me, but I am one of those considering the "E" and the "L" Capped Bust 1825 Quarters as damaged. PCGS should not grade them. I know that I will never buy one of them. Hope I have not offended anyone. >>



Shouldn't it be the same for chopmarked or because there are more of them and thus more interest and demand our hosts caved in and made an exception to the rule of damaged coins not being graded.
>>

You bet, chopmarked coins should also be considered damaged goods. JMHO

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I collect Capped Bust series by variety in PCGS AU/MS grades.

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