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Thread Title: Ebay "No returns" question.
Created On Saturday October 22, 2011 1:41 AM
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thisnamztaken
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Saturday October 22, 2011 1:41 AM

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I've noticed that recently a whole lot more eBay sellers are choosing the "No returns accepted" option for their return policy. Has some new eBay rule been added now that has caused this, or what?

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TorinoCobra71
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Saturday October 22, 2011 3:07 AM

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I have noticed this also. These sellers WILL NOT be getting my business.





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UncleJoe
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Saturday October 22, 2011 4:27 AM

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I will also be going to a No Return policy once the new "rule" is in effect.

I don't recall exactly but I believe I got an email from eBay indicating that they were eliminating the 3 and 7 day return options for listings. eBay wants you to have a 30 day return policy which is much too long for coins and especially bullion IMO.

Joe.

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ProfHaroldHill
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Saturday October 22, 2011 4:36 AM

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I'm not aware of any new rules that would cause it... perhaps they're getting hit with a lot of returns as collectors fear the market will follow the PM's back down a notch or two.

Keep in mind though, that you can *always* return a coin, (regardless of stated policy,) if it's an "unpleasant surprise", in the sense that something was amiss, and was not described in the listing.

For example, if a coin is BU, as was stated, but was said to be a "nice, problem free" coin, and it turns out to have a deep gouge not mentioned or visible in the images, then ebay allows the buyer to return it as being "Significantly not as described".

The buyer can get their money refunded, even if the seller doesn't like it.

As for me, I do use two return listing types, (7 day returns, and 'no returns',) but when I state "returns not accepted" I'm of course only referring to the "I changed my mind" type of return, and usually only use this for bulk lots of circ coins, for instance.

Then again, I tend to start most items at 99 cents, and they rarely ever sell at "retail" prices, normally somewhere right around 'Greysheet'. People seem to be quite happy with the way it works. (I lose money on about 1/3rd of my listings, but it still works out well in the overall picture, and the PCGS coins are the "bread and butter" since people pay higher prices than raw, *regardless* of all else.)

So, while some people do try to use the 'no returns' option as a way to push 'lemons' off on the unsuspecting, it actually won't work if the buyer knows enough to complain to ebay, using the "SNAD" avenue. (Significantly Not As Described)

I've read many times on ebay forums, that buyers are virtually never turned down by ebay, when they seek to return a "no returns" item. This may or may not be true, but what IS true is that buyers ARE still protected even if the auction states "no returns".

If you're 'shopping ebay', and paying set retail prices, (BIN and/or store listings,) as opposed to 'hitting' auctions to get "steals", I would certainly agree that a return privilege is always in order, but it's important to also understand that someone selling a lot of '200 full date buffalo nickels', has to try and protect themselves from the buyer who will turn around and try to cheat the seller by returning the lot with numerous coins 'switched out'.

I would imagine that most who list "no returns" auctions are aware that some people will not bid on those listings, but sometimes it's just the 'cost of doing business' to lose a few bidders in order to try and ensure fairness on both sides.



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coinhunters
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Saturday October 22, 2011 4:42 AM

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Too many hoops to have to jump through, if your accepting returns are on PCGS or NGC encapsulated Coins, Medals or Tokens. This is a different world today with far to many individuals as buyers of numismatic items who take advantage of the " unconditional-return " policy. They can and do often times make it very costly in terms of time, fee's and outright significant financial losses for the occasional listing seller. The flip side to this is also that there are an increasing number of Sellers that try to , and do sell counterfeit items. I finally gave up and decided the risk of having to assume significant financial losses or the effort required to correct a wrong was more than I want to involve myself with. There is just to much " Danger " on both sides of this street for me.

Edited: Saturday October 22, 2011 at 4:45 AM by coinhunters

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boucharda
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Saturday October 22, 2011 5:18 AM

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I really can't see the point of eliminating potential buyers by putting a statement in the auction that has no value.....

ANY coin can be returned if the buyer decides to return it...SNAD covers all.....

I had a buyer return a MS70 08/07 ASE that he overpaid for......reason? SNAD.....he said there was a scratch on the slab....of course there wasn't..Ebay returned his cash

I will add that I fall into the group of buyers that ignore postings with a no return policy.....just makes me feel insecure about purchasing that product

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OPA
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Saturday October 22, 2011 7:08 AM

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On coins, I also avoid the NO RETURN sellers, regardles if the coins are in TPG graded holders or not. On bullion purchases, it makes no difference whether they have a return policy (most do not) or not. It's only bullion after all.

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"Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."

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Obiwancanoli
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Saturday October 22, 2011 7:27 AM

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I'd recently purchased a coin off eBay that had a "No Returns" policy, however, the description, and the pix, gave me confidence that this not really expensive coin was worth the BIN/B/o. I made an offer I felt fair, it was accepted, and a few days later the coin arrived.

As soon as I opened and inspected the coin, I knew it was going back. The auction pix were skillfully done in a way in which the obvious cleaning and hairlines weren't at all visible on either side. Of course, had this not been the case, I would have felt I picked up a newp at a good price, but when it arrived, clearly, I was disappointed.

I contacted the seller ASAP, and noted the above - I was polite, apologetic. I asked the seller if, in this instance, he would accept the coin as a return, despite his policy, as the cleaning and hairlines weren't visible in the pix, nor was there any mention of it in the auction dialogue.

The seller replied within a reasonable time, instructed me to send the coin back, and he would gladly issue a refund. I did so, the refund appeared 2 days later, and I responded with thanks for his professionalism, and impressive customer service.

Now and then, I take a walk on the wild side, and bid/buy a coin with a No Return policy, but I will not be so naive with the next one. The seller I encounted in this instance did the right thing, perhaps because he anticipated the possiblity of a SNAD anyway, and simply beat me to the punch, so to speak. Nevertheless, I thought it was an impressive response, one which taught me a lesson I sometimes need to re-learn on occasion. In this case, I have the members of this forum to thank for the education I've received, a wealth of accumulated experience which has, so far, taught me enough to more accurately assess a coin in hand, and better still, to be cautious about buying raw coins off eBay (or any place else, for that matter) in the first place...

Once again, thank you all.


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Beats All The Lies You Can Invent

Edited: Saturday October 22, 2011 at 7:30 AM by Obiwancanoli

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ErrorsOnCoins
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Saturday October 22, 2011 7:39 AM

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I have always had a NO RETURN policy as an Auction is an AUCTION and NOT an Approval Service,

I have 100% Feedback, and a 5.0 STARS on the "AS Described"

When I buy on ebay, I but the COIN, not the return policy, I don't even look to see IF there is a return policy.

BECAUSE you can return ANYTHING on ebay if the item is NASD.

All of YOU who will not buy if no returns, I GUARANTY YOU HAVE MISSED OUT ON SOME REALLY NICE COINS,

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topstuf
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Saturday October 22, 2011 7:49 AM

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It's nice that ebay can protect.... buyers. Let's just hope that those buyers become ....sellers... at some future date.

Karma or justice.... whatever.


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OPA
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Saturday October 22, 2011 7:58 AM

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<< All of YOU who will not buy if no returns, I GUARANTY YOU HAVE MISSED OUT ON SOME REALLY NICE COINS, >>



No doubt, but with the competition the way it is, there is always a seller of similar products as yours, that will have a return policy.
But you need to ask yourself, "how many sales have I lost do to my NO Return policy."

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"Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."

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Tiny
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Saturday October 22, 2011 8:07 AM

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I have not and will not buy from a seller that does not offer to accept returns.
I have had to return one coin in 12 years but it is the point. Would any of
y'all buy from Wally's or Target or any other store if they didn't accept returns?

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SereneDude
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Saturday October 22, 2011 8:11 AM

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<< I really can't see the point of eliminating potential buyers by putting a statement in the auction that has no value.....

ANY coin can be returned if the buyer decides to return it...SNAD covers all.....

I had a buyer return a MS70 08/07 ASE that he overpaid for......reason? SNAD.....he said there was a scratch on the slab....of course there wasn't..Ebay returned his cash

I will add that I fall into the group of buyers that ignore postings with a no return policy.....just makes me feel insecure about purchasing that product
>>


I agree 100%
As a buyer, I simply will not buy from a seller who won't gladly take returns within a reasonable period (5-7 days seems fair to me).
OTOH, 30 days is ludicrously long, especially for bullion.
IMHO eBay is once again shooting itself in the foot.
If I was selling bullion items, eBay would be my absolute last resort.
Seller buys, price goes down, seller returns and I'm out the listing fees and the postage - just doesn't seem equitable.
eBay has already stopped giving eBay Bucks on buliion and now they expect sellers to finance buyer speculation on bullion.
Thanks again eBay.

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crypto79
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Saturday October 22, 2011 8:25 AM

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<< I have not and will not buy from a seller that does not offer to accept returns.
I have had to return one coin in 12 years but it is the point. Would any of
y'all buy from Wally's or Target or any other store if they didn't accept returns?
>>



What the seller says and what the store says are two different things in Ebay's case. Sellers can say what ever they like but if I get a dud in the mail it's going back the next day no matter what.

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Greeniejr
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Saturday October 22, 2011 8:35 AM

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Error has it right, it is an AUCTION and not an approval service. The issue is that there are two different types of sellers on eBay that have to follow the same rules. There are the real auction sellers like me who starts everything at 1 cent no reserve. The price is decided by the top two bidders and if they are not sure they want it, they should not bid as high. The second type of seller is the regular retailer who either starts the auction at their retail price or does only BIN or best offers. In that kind of situation I can understand people wanting a return privilege because it is a regular retail sale. Unfortunately both types of sellers have to follow the same rules. In the end you can always use the SNAD threat to force a return anyway.

Two transactions forced my hand on this policy. I listed an 09-S Indian in PCGS MS64 CAC. The bidding was strong and the final price was 20% over sheet levels. It was a really nice PQ coin. I get an email from the buyer saying that he showed it to his dealer and his dealer said it was a bad coin, that if submitted today it would come back MS63 at best. Really? It was so badly canned it was ridiculous. What he said translated was that he payed PQ money because he thought it would grade out 65. When he got it in hand, he figured it would not upgrade so he just returned it.

The second was the sale of a better date gold coin in an NGC details holder cleaned. A major national dealer bought it from us on eBay. They paid an extremely strong price for it, just shy of problem free money. I overnight the coin to them and get a call from them the next day that they are returning it. Why? Because they did not like the coin. Given this dealer is a known crackout artist and doctor, but this was a 1 cent no reserve auction so a return was not acceptable.

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mrpotatoheadd
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Saturday October 22, 2011 8:45 AM

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Two things are going to happen once sellers are required to have a 30 day return policy (well, there'll probably be more than just two, but still...):

Buyers will be returning coins that...

1) don't slab high enough to justify the purchase price.
2) they can't flip for a profit in a couple of weeks.

And this is not even addressing the issue of bullion sales- the results here are a no brainer.

If a policy can be abused, you can count on the fact it will be. Requiring a 30 day return policy is an open invitation to cheats.

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ErrorsOnCoins
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Saturday October 22, 2011 9:14 AM

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<<

<< No doubt, but with the competition the way it is, there is always a seller of similar products as yours, that will have a return policy.
>>



NOT TRUE, I buy and sell one-of-a-kind items, so there is no other seller of similar products.

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OPA
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Saturday October 22, 2011 9:39 AM

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<<

<<

<< No doubt, but with the competition the way it is, there is always a seller of similar products as yours, that will have a return policy.
>>



NOT TRUE, I buy and sell one-of-a-kind items, so there is no other seller of similar products.
>>



Must be nice to have a monopoly.

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"Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."

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LindeDad
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Saturday October 22, 2011 9:52 AM

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Actually the new minimum return period is going to be two weeks not thirty days.

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LanceNewmanOCC
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Saturday October 22, 2011 9:54 AM

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<< I've noticed that recently a whole lot more eBay sellers are choosing the "No returns accepted" option for their return policy. Has some new eBay rule been added now that has caused this, or what? >>



The default setting is no returns.

So if they don't mess with it, then that is what it will show.
.
.


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