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Holy Cow! Fresh

RYKRYK Posts: 35,772 ✭✭✭✭✭
This coin has, apparently, been put away since the 1850's:

image

I am not sure you can get a whole lot fresher than that, especially when the current market defines fresh as a coin that has not been sold (publicly) for a few years (or auctions).
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Comments

  • jhdflajhdfla Posts: 3,025 ✭✭✭
    Nice copper inclusion... Liberty with a red neck. I like it image
  • coinkid855coinkid855 Posts: 5,012 ✭✭✭
    Really cool! What's the story behind it?




    -Paul
  • ShortgapbobShortgapbob Posts: 2,332 ✭✭✭
    Yeah....but its spotted....lol. That coin looks incredible!!
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." -- Aristotle

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  • image
  • blu62vetteblu62vette Posts: 11,900 ✭✭✭✭✭
    very cool.....
    http://www.bluccphotos.com" target="new">BluCC Photos Shows for onsite imaging: Nov Baltimore, FUN, Long Beach http://www.facebook.com/bluccphotos" target="new">BluCC on Facebook
  • wow super nice
    about a ms 65
  • fivecentsfivecents Posts: 11,207 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Gosh that is a beautiful color. Looks very PL and cameo.
  • BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>wow super nice
    about a ms 65 >>



    Most likely a lower grade Unc do to a typical weak central strike.

    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
  • i flip a ten dollor 1843 - o
    but it was a breen 6869 made $1600 off it.
  • PlacidPlacid Posts: 11,301 ✭✭✭
    Are the lines over the eye from the holder?
  • coinguy1coinguy1 Posts: 13,485


    << <i>

    << <i>wow super nice
    about a ms 65 >>



    Most likely a lower grade Unc do to a typical weak central strike. >>

    If it's a lower grade, it sure shouldn't be due to the strike. There is excellent detail at many areas. And the luster is apparently all there. It is marks and the stain on the neck which would be most likely to limit the grade.
  • messydeskmessydesk Posts: 19,642 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Very cool!

    Linky. Story half way down the page

    Here's a pic in the plastic that shows the field defects better, but also shows that the neck seems to have been NCSed.

    image
  • BarndogBarndog Posts: 20,454 ✭✭✭✭✭
    so these two pics, the one RYK showed and the one on DW's site, to me it now seems that this coin may be as fresh as fresh can be, but no longer "totally original"

    Hmmm?
  • BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>It is marks and the stain on the neck which would be most likely to limit the grade. >>



    Your most likely right coinguy1... But that's not a stain, as it's an aphrodisiac to make a dirty gold man drool! image
    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
  • messydeskmessydesk Posts: 19,642 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>so these two pics, the one RYK showed and the one on DW's site, to me it now seems that this coin may be as fresh as fresh can be, but no longer "totally original"

    Hmmm? >>


    The one RYK posted is on DW's site. Check the URL.
  • fcfc Posts: 12,788 ✭✭✭
    great looking au58!
  • yes the color is ok,
    it comes from the other metals the mint adds to make the gold harder.
  • BarndogBarndog Posts: 20,454 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>so these two pics, the one RYK showed and the one on DW's site, to me it now seems that this coin may be as fresh as fresh can be, but no longer "totally original"

    Hmmm? >>


    The one RYK posted is on DW's site. Check the URL. >>



    yeah, I did. So it looks like a before and after pic. And to me, that's unfortunate
  • BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Very cool!

    Linky. Story half way down the page

    Here's a pic in the plastic that shows the field defects better, but also shows that the neck seems to have been NCSed.

    image >>



    image

    Wow they should be charged with malpractice as it's very apparent that the patient died! image

    What a shame... Sorry that coin is not for me! image
    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
  • ooo wow bummer
    people should learn to leave old coins alone,and not to mess with them!!!!
  • coinguy1coinguy1 Posts: 13,485


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>so these two pics, the one RYK showed and the one on DW's site, to me it now seems that this coin may be as fresh as fresh can be, but no longer "totally original"

    Hmmm? >>


    The one RYK posted is on DW's site. Check the URL. >>



    yeah, I did. So it looks like a before and after pic. And to me, that's unfortunate >>

    Perhaps it is just differences in the imaging?
  • BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Perhaps it is just differences in the imaging? >>



    coinguy1, I doubt it as it was imaged by the same photographer.

    Raw vs slabbed isn't going to make that much of a difference as this coin has been totally skinned.

    I'm surprised that it was not just spot treated as now it looks like your average stripped NGC Liberty N/M gold.
    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
  • yes thay removed lot of the patina.
  • RYKRYK Posts: 35,772 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The coin has absolutely not been dipped or processed.

    It was in the same family for 150 years, then to Doug, then to NGC. The same photographer took both photos. The first image was raw; the second with prongs.

    Why on earth would anyone think that Doug would mess with a coin like that? It's absurd and unthinkable. You should be ashamed of yourself.

    The "lines" in the upper obverse are planchet streaks that are known to exist on high grade 43-O LL $5's. They are like adjustment marks.

    If you have a fresher coin in your collection, I want to see it. image
  • BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>yes thay removed lot of the patina. >>



    The PL surfaces are now impaired.
    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
  • fcfc Posts: 12,788 ✭✭✭
    did you ask Doug if he submitted it to cac by chance? i do not see it in the pops.
    i wonder if they agree with the grade? ;-)
  • BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>The coin has absolutely not been dipped or processed.

    It was in the same family for 150 years, then to Doug, then to NGC. The same photographer took both photos. The first image was raw; the second with prongs.

    Why on earth would anyone think that Doug would mess with a coin like that? It's absurd and unthinkable. You should be ashamed of yourself.

    The "lines" in the upper obverse are planchet streaks that are known to exist on high grade 43-O LL $5's. They are like adjustment marks.

    If you have a fresher coin in your collection, I want to see it. image >>



    I beg to differ as I'm hard pressed to believe that encapsulation alone turned it from a Super Model into a Leper! image
    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
  • coinguy1coinguy1 Posts: 13,485


    << <i>

    << <i>yes thay removed lot of the patina. >>



    The PL surfaces are now impaired. >>

    I think it is unfair to assume and state that it has been processed. Perhaps it was, but differences in images, alone, are not good reasons to do so.
  • RYKRYK Posts: 35,772 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>The coin has absolutely not been dipped or processed.

    It was in the same family for 150 years, then to Doug, then to NGC. The same photographer took both photos. The first image was raw; the second with prongs.

    Why on earth would anyone think that Doug would mess with a coin like that? It's absurd and unthinkable. You should be ashamed of yourself.

    The "lines" in the upper obverse are planchet streaks that are known to exist on high grade 43-O LL $5's. They are like adjustment marks.

    If you have a fresher coin in your collection, I want to see it. image >>



    I beg to differ as I'm hard pressed to believe that encapsulation alone turned it from a Super Model into a Leper! image >>



    Okay, so I talked to the guy who owns the coin, who happens to be an expert on original, 19th century southern gold, who has handled a half dozen other unc 43-O $5's in 63-65, who says that he purchased it raw, submitted it once, and never messed with it, but some forum dude whose name I don't even know, who has never seen the coin in person, knows for a fact, based on photographs that are obviously completely different from one another that it was dipped in between the two? Got it!
  • i am so sorry.
    i though it was mess with,because of what other people said.
    and because the spot on the neck is totaly gone on the 2th picture.
    and the eagle head.and other spots, looks so much different.
    i am sorry.
  • gripgrip Posts: 9,962 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Wow,what a messimage
  • coinguy1coinguy1 Posts: 13,485


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>The coin has absolutely not been dipped or processed.

    It was in the same family for 150 years, then to Doug, then to NGC. The same photographer took both photos. The first image was raw; the second with prongs.

    Why on earth would anyone think that Doug would mess with a coin like that? It's absurd and unthinkable. You should be ashamed of yourself.

    The "lines" in the upper obverse are planchet streaks that are known to exist on high grade 43-O LL $5's. They are like adjustment marks.

    If you have a fresher coin in your collection, I want to see it. image >>



    I beg to differ as I'm hard pressed to believe that encapsulation alone turned it from a Super Model into a Leper! image >>



    Okay, so I talked to the guy who owns the coin, who happens to be an expert on original, 19th century southern gold, who has handled a half dozen other unc 43-O $5's in 63-65, who says that he purchased it raw, submitted it once, and never messed with it, but some forum dude whose name I don't even know, who has never seen the coin in person, knows for a fact, based on photographs that are obviously completely different from one another that it was dipped in between the two? Got it! >>

    But, but, but maybe NGC messed with it, without being asked.image

    Seriously, Robert, thanks for the facts. And shame on any forum members who condemned the coin as having been processed, based just on differences in images. Raising the question is one thing, but that's not what occurred. How many times have we seen the same coin look dramatically/shockingly different, in different images?
  • BarndogBarndog Posts: 20,454 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>But, but, but maybe NGC messed with it, without being asked >>



    TPGs have done this before, have they not?
  • i have had a lot of raw gold coins , that was sent to pcgs.
    and gold coins can change there looks as you tilt it.
  • RYKRYK Posts: 35,772 ✭✭✭✭✭
    IJ, no need to apologize.

    BS, on the other hand, should know better. (He also should probably know better than to sell on the BST AT'ed NGC Peace dollars that have been discussed here a half dozen times. image ).
  • RYKRYK Posts: 35,772 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>i have had a lot of raw gold coins , that was sent to pcgs.
    and gold coins can change there looks as you tilt it. >>


    Many coins can have a different look with a different tilt to the light.

    If anything, the image of the coin after slabbing looks darker. Maybe they dropped in the mud outside NGC. image
  • coinguy1coinguy1 Posts: 13,485


    << <i>

    << <i>But, but, but maybe NGC messed with it, without being asked >>



    TPGs have done this before, have they not? >>

    That accusation has certainly been made on more than one occasion. But it apparently has nothing to do with the present coin.
  • BarndogBarndog Posts: 20,454 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>But, but, but maybe NGC messed with it, without being asked >>



    TPGs have done this before, have they not? >>

    That accusation has certainly been made on more than one occasion. But it apparently has nothing to do with the present coin. >>



    fair enough image
  • its a darn nice coin. and would buy it any day.
    coins that old are very rare that nice.
    but i do like it best in the first picture. :-)
  • BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Okay, so I talked to the guy who owns the coin, who happens to be an expert on original, 19th century southern gold, who has handled a half dozen other unc 43-O $5's in 63-65, who says that he purchased it raw, submitted it once, and never messed with it, but some forum dude whose name I don't even know, who has never seen the coin in person, knows for a fact, based on photographs that are obviously completely different from one another that it was dipped in between the two? Got it! >>



    This isn't our Grandfathers hobby anymore as it's evolving daily ever since Al Gore invented the World Wide Web. We look and study Digital Images everyday and on this forum even try to guess grades and spot unoriginal surfaces daily. These are not poor auction images provided to hide issues, but these are quality images to showcase the coin. Yes it may be unfair to state it's been tentatively processed, but the neck spot wouldn't disappear even with some trick photography.
    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
  • Al Gore invented the World Wide Web
    lol to funny
  • BarndogBarndog Posts: 20,454 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Al Gore invented the World Wide Web
    lol to funny >>




    "During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet"

    March 9, 1999.
  • BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>IJ, no need to apologize.

    BS, on the other hand, should know better. (He also should probably know better than to sell on the BST AT'ed NGC Peace dollars that have been discussed here a half dozen times. image ). >>



    RYK, Low Blow... But if your taking upon yourself to form your opinion of it being AT based on an image, then why can't I image
    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,499 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Are the lines over the eye from the holder? >>



    That looks like a planchet mark, possibly an adjustment mark, that starts in the left field, runs through the eyebrow and hair, and out behind the bun.
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • ranshdowranshdow Posts: 1,431 ✭✭✭✭
    It's a beauty, any way you angle it...
  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,796 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Great coin... I know for a fact if I shot it, you'd all say it was doctored. If Mr Paseo shot it, you'd all say it was targeted.

  • messydeskmessydesk Posts: 19,642 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Yes it may be unfair to state it's been tentatively processed, but the neck spot wouldn't disappear even with some trick photography. >>


    That's my feeling, too. The rest of the color is unchanged. The darkest part of the coin besides the hickey is around the hair cord and bun, and that's just as dark on the slabbed pic as on the original. I'm not sure how I'd manage to hide the hickey with a photo, and I'd feel a bit dishonest trying to do that intentionally, as I'm sure would an excessively prominent dealer in rare southern gold. Seeing the slabbed one without the context of the original, I like the coin. Seeing them both together, I still like it, but the difference makes me think it was detoured on the way to the grading room, and I'd have to see the coin in hand to be convinced otherwise or to be convinced that it was a good idea to have had it conserved. Seeing the slabbed pic on the website and then receiving one with a big, black hickey in the mail would make me a bit cross.
  • BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Yes it may be unfair to state it's been tentatively processed, but the neck spot wouldn't disappear even with some trick photography. >>


    That's my feeling, too. The rest of the color is unchanged. The darkest part of the coin besides the hickey is around the hair cord and bun, and that's just as dark on the slabbed pic as on the original. I'm not sure how I'd manage to hide the hickey with a photo, and I'd feel a bit dishonest trying to do that intentionally, as I'm sure would an excessively prominent dealer in rare southern gold. Seeing the slabbed one without the context of the original, I like the coin. Seeing them both together, I still like it, but the difference makes me think it was detoured on the way to the grading room, and I'd have to see the coin in hand to be convinced otherwise or to be convinced that it was a good idea to have had it conserved. Seeing the slabbed pic on the website and then receiving one with a big, black hickey in the mail would make me a bit cross. >>



    imageimage
    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!


  • << <i>The coin has absolutely not been dipped or processed.

    If you have a fresher coin in your collection, I want to see it. image >>



    About as dirty as one gets without being gold.

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