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Thread Title: Scary, Ebay seller selling decent fake PCGS coins, MS63 1916-D Merc
Created On Friday August 20, 2010 11:49 AM
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Darkwaverave
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Friday August 20, 2010 11:49 AM

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My co-worker bought a couple of auctions from seller dwb9242, this PCGS MS63 1916-D Merc was one of them. I think it is fake, what do you think?

Ebay auction:
Fake 1916-D

He did not include pictures of the slab on either auction. My co-worker requested better pictures of the coin and slab and received these.






We both did not like the reverse picture of the certification slip, so additional searches yielded the Original coin and slab for ale on the web:

Link to real coin being sold



It looks like even the bar code matches up. My co-worker also bought a 1919-S Lincoln from him and not sure if that is fake. Are most of his coins he has sold fake? The seller was emailed and didn't believe it. Thanks for any responses

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coin22lover
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Friday August 20, 2010 11:56 AM

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Interesting find, but I am thoroughly confused by that website..

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coinguy1
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Friday August 20, 2010 12:10 PM

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I think you are correct. And, while I have no idea if it will help, I contacted the seller. I am also highly skeptical of the alleged PCGS FB 1945 Mercury Dime he has listed here

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joebb21
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Friday August 20, 2010 12:11 PM

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wow

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Walkerguy21D
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Friday August 20, 2010 12:15 PM

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Well, even the front labels are different, that's for sure. Compare how the '31' aligns with '90' below it on both labels.
Can't see enough of the dime (either of them) to judge that. But that labeling is not something you would catch if you didn't have another to compare it with. The reverse label certainly looks odd. Very worrisome though to say the least.

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Edited: Friday August 20, 2010 at 12:16 PM by Walkerguy21D

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WoodenJefferson
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Friday August 20, 2010 12:16 PM

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Premium Numismatics, Inc.

Nothing for sale. Just photos and descriptions of coins we have handled.

The images provided by Premium maybe old images, the coin was re-submitted for an up-grade (full bands) did not garner the designation, so now you have a different holder. Not to worry, the e-bay sell has a legit coin, but man, spending 10.5 k on the internet is an extremely risky venture.

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Edited: Friday August 20, 2010 at 12:17 PM by WoodenJefferson

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AngryTurtle
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Friday August 20, 2010 12:20 PM

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I vote definitely NOT the same coin. note how the die alignment between obverse and reverse is different between the two coins. Premium numismatic shows some offset from normal coin alignment, eBay coin does not. Reverse of eBay coin looks suspicious to me as well.

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Darkwaverave
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Friday August 20, 2010 12:22 PM

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It is not the same coin, look at the bands, the fake coin has no separation, look at the close auction link pic, and the real one has plenty.

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Darkwaverave
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Friday August 20, 2010 12:27 PM

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I just found the real coin on Heritage:

Heritage Link

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sinin1
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Friday August 20, 2010 2:16 PM

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a newer slab


the reverse has a different PCGS hologram

with the (fake?) having NASDAQ CLCT on it



is there any possibility that the coin got re-holdered or re-graded?


I can say the slab is different, but not that everything is fake from the photo provided.


Maybe PCGS should buy it and sue the seller if it is a fake (to protect their brand and market domination)

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Teva
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Friday August 20, 2010 3:24 PM

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The listing has been removed.

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yellowkid
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Friday August 20, 2010 3:36 PM

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I don't want to sound like a shill, but all the more reason for SecurePlus!

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okracer
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Friday August 20, 2010 4:02 PM

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And what about this 1909 s VDB, "PCGS" listing by him?

1909 s VDB listing

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blu62vette
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Friday August 20, 2010 4:03 PM

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I wonder how the barcode would read if you put a scanner on it?



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EagleEye
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Friday August 20, 2010 4:12 PM

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The close-up of the 1916-D is very suspicious looking. So to the 1909-S VDB.
He says he's been buying and selling [fakes] for 42 years!

Someone should buy something cheap from him and get his name and address.

Edited to add: Sorry it says the OP's co-worker did buy it! Please post clear pictures when you get it in hand.




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Edited: Friday August 20, 2010 at 4:34 PM by EagleEye

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robkool
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Friday August 20, 2010 4:42 PM

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YIKES !!!

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Darkwaverave
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Friday August 20, 2010 4:45 PM

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From an email it says his name is David Burns and his location says BURLINGAME, CA

Also he has a few higher end coins auctions that already completed and may be suspicious as well.

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coinguy1
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Friday August 20, 2010 4:49 PM

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I have been in touch with the seller, and, at the present time, have very limited information.

But, he said he did not know he had bought/listed any counterfeits and that he has filed a local police report to try to track down the individual who sold them to him. I have asked for good images of the coins, including the front and back of the holders. If I receive them, I will post them here. I told the seller, that if the coins and holders are counterfeit, perhaps PCGS could get involved too.

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Darkwaverave
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Friday August 20, 2010 5:01 PM

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The coins that were won have not been paid for as we discovered the discrepancies right before.

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EagleEye
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Friday August 20, 2010 5:19 PM

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Good work CoinGuy and Darkwaverave.

I think a dealer with 42 years experience should have been able to tell it was fake. We, of course should not pass judgment too quick, as nobody is perfect, and things do get by the best of us. Please keep us posted.

On a side note, any seller of a counterfeit, regardless of their prior knowledge or lack thereof, should be held accountable. Make offering them bad for business.

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