Quick Links:   Collectors Corner | PCGS | PSA | PSE | PSA/DNA | CU | Coinflation



Navigation:


FORUMS > U.S. COIN FORUM [ REFRESH ]
Thread Title: PCGS Currency assigns grades of PPQ. Should PCGS Coins assign grades of PQ?
Created On Friday November 06, 2009 9:29 PM
Pages: [ 1 2 >> Next ]


PQType
Veteran

Posts: 580
Joined: Jul 2009

Friday November 06, 2009 9:29 PM

User is offline View users profile View thread in raw text format

I recently started picking up some PCGS PPQ graded currency. I like the fact that they grade some PPQ = Premium Paper Quality

NGC has the star designation, but their website states its just for eye appeal.

So post your opinion..... Pro and Cons.

Do you think PCGS Coins should start assigning grades of PQ on coins of Premium Quality for the grade? (examples F15PQ, XF45PQ, MS63PQ, MS65PQ )

I myself would like to see it and also would like to see a PQ graded coin be given some type of rating above a non PQ graded coin fror the registry sets. Just like a CAM gets a higher rating the a non CAM

Looking forward to your opinions.

-------------------------
The American With Disabilites Act Information Line. Get correct answers to questions and free publications.




Edited: Friday November 06, 2009 at 9:31 PM by PQType

Reply
Quote
Top
Bottom



WTCG
Master Collector

Posts: 9674
Joined: Aug 2005

Friday November 06, 2009 10:16 PM

User is offline View users profile View thread in raw text format

PMG uses an equivalent designation of "EPQ" that is similar to the "PPQ" designation used by PCGS Currency.

It should be noted that those designations for currency do not denote premium quality. An "EPQ" or "PPQ" designation means that the note which carries the designation is completely original with original, crisp quality paper. Notes that are graded in the uncirculated grades that are without the designation denotes that the note has likely been pressed or is otherwise not totally original. Notes that grade in the uncirculated grades (60-70) should in theory all carry the designation and notes that don't are often difficult to sell and when they do they sell at prices that are back of the Greensheet bid numbers.

Again, an "EPQ" or a "PPQ" designation is not the equivalent of "PQ" for coins.

-------------------------
Follow me on Twitter @wtcgroup
Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"

Reply
Quote
Top
Bottom



Wolf359
Choose Your Title

Posts: 11032
Joined: Jul 2003

Friday November 06, 2009 10:17 PM

User is offline View users profile View thread in raw text format

Gawd no. Things are complicated enough already.

This is an old argument anyway, being debated here before.

-------------------------
WebSite, Morgan Dollars

eBay sales

Reply
Quote
Top
Bottom



PQType
Veteran

Posts: 580
Joined: Jul 2009

Friday November 06, 2009 10:25 PM

User is offline View users profile View thread in raw text format

From the PCGS Currency website



<< To distinguish notes that bear all the hallmarks of complete originality and outstanding paper quality for the grade, we will affix a “PPQ” (Premium Paper Quality) designation to the grade (e.g.: “Gem New 65PPQ”). These are notes that bear no visible evidence of restoration and that retain all signs of fully original paper quality, such as paper wave, embossing, and bold ink color and eye appeal, and that also have above average paper for the grade that is free of defects such as tears, pinholes, or other problems. This is not done to penalize those notes that are not fully original, as many are very collectible and highly valuable. Instead, this system is designed to reward those notes, both circulated and New, that possess premium paper quality and complete originality. It should be understood that even though a note may be fully original and free of any restoration, it still might not qualify for the “PPQ” designation. >>



Why not reward coins, both circulated, uncirculated and proof, that show complete originality ex: not dipped, smooth surfaces, less they average nicks, etc. a coin that is borderline to the next higer grade?

I would think this MS64 would fit the PQ designation. And in hand the luster is outstanding



-------------------------
The American With Disabilites Act Information Line. Get correct answers to questions and free publications.




Edited: Friday November 06, 2009 at 10:40 PM by PQType

Reply
Quote
Top
Bottom



Wolf359
Choose Your Title

Posts: 11032
Joined: Jul 2003

Friday November 06, 2009 11:17 PM

User is offline View users profile View thread in raw text format

Why does a slab need to say it? I'd pay a premium for that coin if it's as good in hand. Do we really need the plastic to tell us everything?

This is an age-old argument, NGC has it's * for eye appeal, no different here. It's been discussed and debated, and decided, long ago. Everything on a slab's label is a paid opinion. Learn to think
for yourself. Even "original" is an opinion and not always correct.



-------------------------
WebSite, Morgan Dollars

eBay sales

Reply
Quote
Top
Bottom



Steve27
Choose Your Title

Posts: 16025
Joined: Apr 2001

Saturday November 07, 2009 1:27 AM

User is offline View users profile View thread in raw text format

Are you trying to put CAC out of business?


-------------------------
Steve


"It's far easier to fight for principles, than to live up to them." Adlai Stevenson



Reply
Quote
Top
Bottom



golfer72
Expert Collector

Posts: 3737
Joined: Mar 2008

Saturday November 07, 2009 3:50 AM

User is offline View thread in raw text format

The NGC Star is meaningless since its for eye appeal which is completely subjective. PQ would just be adding more sub grades to existing grades which is different than the NGC star.

Reply
Quote
Top
Bottom



mozin
Master Collector

Posts: 8663
Joined: Feb 2005

Saturday November 07, 2009 9:33 AM

User is offline View thread in raw text format



<< Are you trying to put CAC out of business? >>

CAC is doing a fine job selecting the better coins in holders from both PCGS and NGC.



<< The NGC Star is meaningless since its for eye appeal which is completely subjective. PQ would just be adding more sub grades to existing grades which is different than the NGC star. >>



-------------------------
I collect Capped Bust series by variety in PCGS AU/MS grades.

MyRegistrySets


Reply
Quote
Top
Bottom



SilverEagles92
Master Collector

Posts: 7474
Joined: Jul 2006

Saturday November 07, 2009 9:36 AM

User is offline View thread in raw text format

I agree with WTCG, I think you have the definition of PPQ incorrect in your mind.

The designation tells you something that you would not be able to otherwise ascertain since the note is in a holder. Paper quality is a tangible thing, and if they didn't list it, you would have to "crack" the note out of the holder to know for sure.

I'm not sure there's something in coins I can equate it to, perhaps FBL or some other designation? But it does not mean that the note is "PQ" for the grade, just that the paper quality is excellent.

-------------------------

To support LordM's European Trip, click here!

Reply
Quote
Top
Bottom



aficoinado
Senior Member

Posts: 306
Joined: Oct 2009

Saturday November 07, 2009 10:38 AM

User is offline View thread in raw text format

Let's do school grades!!!

Add +/- to the letters and we all know what that means! MS64- will tell you it barely makes the grade but it's better than 63. Same goes for a MS64+ but no extra credit will be accepted!!

Reply
Quote
Top
Bottom



Wolf359
Choose Your Title

Posts: 11032
Joined: Jul 2003

Saturday November 07, 2009 11:04 AM

User is offline View users profile View thread in raw text format



<< The NGC Star is meaningless since its for eye appeal which is completely subjective. PQ would just be adding more sub grades to existing grades which is different than the NGC star. >>


I agree. But the previous debates over the years on this compared the two.

Who wants to see PCGS add a PQ Designation - Sep 2008

It's time for a PCGS PQ Designation (because NGC has it's star) - From 2004





-------------------------
WebSite, Morgan Dollars

eBay sales

Edited: Saturday November 07, 2009 at 11:05 AM by Wolf359

Reply
Quote
Top
Bottom



rld14
Collector

Posts: 2499
Joined: Nov 2008

Saturday November 07, 2009 11:06 AM

User is offline View users profile View thread in raw text format

PPQ = Premium Paper Quality

Coins aren't made out of paper

-------------------------
Bear's "Growl of Approval" award 10/09 & 3/10 | "YOU SUCK" - PonyExpress8|"F the doctors!" - homerunhall | I hate my car

Reply
Quote
Top
Bottom



PQType
Veteran

Posts: 580
Joined: Jul 2009

Saturday November 07, 2009 10:08 PM

User is offline View users profile View thread in raw text format



<< Are you trying to put CAC out of business? >>



This would not put CAC out of bussiness...... But it would add to a coins value to have a PCGS PQ grade and a cac sticker.

CAC does not mean PQ, It means it meets CAC grading standards

They could still sticker a PQ graded coin. Either green or gold.

For example all MS65s are not equal there is a range. I had heard that an unwritten grading system between some dealers in already in place using A,B or C

Anyone else heard of this?

-------------------------
The American With Disabilites Act Information Line. Get correct answers to questions and free publications.



Reply
Quote
Top
Bottom



Wolf359
Choose Your Title

Posts: 11032
Joined: Jul 2003

Saturday November 07, 2009 10:18 PM

User is offline View users profile View thread in raw text format

Let me guess. It's a "C" coin when you sell to them, and an "A" coin when you buy it. Dealers do things all the time to manipulate the market to their personal advantage. It's wrong, but that's
life. It's why PCGS was established - to reduce the scams and fraud and establish a market wide standard. Believe me, a lot of unscrupulous dealers will go the extra mile to discredit PCGS and return
to the old days.

-------------------------
WebSite, Morgan Dollars

eBay sales

Reply
Quote
Top
Bottom



2ndCharter
Expert Collector

Posts: 4204
Joined: May 2003

Sunday November 08, 2009 4:04 AM

User is offline View users profile View thread in raw text format

WTCG is correct - you're talking apples and oranges here.

"PQ" on coins is merely an opinion whereas "PPQ" and "EPQ" relate to the originality of the paper of a note.

Reply
Quote
Top
Bottom



PerryHall
Coin Connoisseur

Posts: 33418
Joined: Apr 2005

Sunday November 08, 2009 4:20 AM

User is offline View thread in raw text format



<< WTCG is correct - you're talking apples and oranges here.

"PQ" on coins is merely an opinion whereas "PPQ" and "EPQ" relate to the originality of the paper of a note.
>>



....................which is also merely an opinion.

Reply
Quote
Top
Bottom



Justacommeman
Master Collector

Posts: 9591
Joined: May 2009

Sunday November 08, 2009 4:20 AM

User is offline View thread in raw text format



<< The NGC Star is meaningless since its for eye appeal which is completely subjective. PQ would just be adding more sub grades to existing grades which is different than the NGC star. >>



I actually love the * designation

MJ









-------------------------
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......

Reply
Quote
Top
Bottom



19Lyds
Master IKE Collector

Posts: 25606
Joined: Apr 2004

Sunday November 08, 2009 7:29 AM

User is offline View users profile View thread in raw text format

No.

Not unless they want to start a revolution.

-------------------------
"Ladies….If a Man says he will fix it, he will! There’s no need to remind him every 6 months about it. " My eBay Listings.

Reply
Quote
Top
Bottom



ziggy29
Certified Thread Killer

Posts: 20697
Joined: Jul 2004

Sunday November 08, 2009 7:32 AM

User is offline View users profile View thread in raw text format

Only if we are determined to not "force" collectors to develop their own opinions of a coin at all.

Reply
Quote
Top
Bottom



QuarterCollector
Collector

Posts: 1455
Joined: Apr 2008

Sunday November 08, 2009 7:46 AM

User is offline View users profile View thread in raw text format

IMHO sub grades are the future. I would like to see a individual grade breakdown. Different grades for surface, luster, edge, strike. Then an overall grade accounting for the grades. For example, the coin receives a grades of 65.8 for surface, 65.5 for luster, 65 for edge, and 65.9 for strike. The overall grade should be 65.6. TPG baseball cards currently do this. It would put CAC out of business but it would be nice to know how much more PQ your coin is from the assigned grade.

Reply
Quote
Top
Bottom

Pages: [ 1 2 >> Next ]
FORUMS > U.S. COIN FORUM [ REFRESH ]
View Member Listing | Add To Member Listing

Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Terms of Membership

Collectors Universe, Inc., or any subsidiary or affiliate is not responsible for the accuracy, completeness or validity of any information contained in any messages.

FuseTalk 3.0 - Copyright © 1999-2002 e-Zone Media Inc. All rights reserved.