The NGC star and MS Franklins.
SkyMan
Posts: 9,493 ✭✭✭✭✭
Almost 2 years ago I stumbled upon a 1949-S MS65*FBL Franklin at a small local show. I was seriously pumped, and looked at the NGC census to find out how rare * Franklins were. I figured that 1958-D's would be the most common, with maybe 1957-D's and 1956's right up there. What really intrigued me was to see how rare these puppies were. Here's something I wrote on the TCCS forums at the time, (7/31/06)...
"I was at a local coin show this weekend and stumbled upon a 1949-S Frankie in NGC MS 65*FBL. It was a date/mintmark that I needed, so for a mixture of a 1947 Walker and some cash it was purchased. '49-S's are a tough coin to find with toning, so it is not a spectacular piece..., but the coin is pretty for the date/mintmark. Anyhow, I knew that * Frankies are few and far between, but, being bored on a saturday night, I checked out/compiled the NGC stats. There are a total of 65,360 MS and 13,194 MSFBL Frankies graded at NGC (in this case MS includes all the circulated grades too), a grand total of 78,554 Frankies. For all these tens of thousands of Frankies there are 134 MS* and 62 MS*FBL Frankies, a grand total of 196 * Frankies for the whole series. To put it another way, for every THOUSAND Frankies graded at NGC aproximately 2.5 will get a star and less than 0.8 will get a star FBL. It really brought home to me just how difficult it is to find a nicely toned Frankie, particularly with FBL."
Anyhow, yesterday I decided to see what has happened in the intervening ~ 2 years. Using yesterday's (6/15/08) current census report there are now 72,872 non-fbl and 16,139 FBL Frankies graded, for a grand total of 89,011. Of these there are 173 non-fbl* and 77 FBL* Frankies, for a grand total of 250. The absolute percent has changed a bit, but is still EXCEEDINGLY small. To put it another way, during this time span there were 7,512 non-fbl Frankies graded with 39 getting a star... roughly 0.52% There were 2,945 FBL's graded with 15 getting a star, again roughly 0.51%. In essence for roughly every 200 Frankies graded 1 will get a star.
Oh, and while the 1958-D was the most common, it now numbers 49 total stars, e.g. ~20% of all starred Frankies, the other top five most common dates rather surprised me (except for the '58-P). In order after the '58-D (49) they were; '53-S (25), '52-S (16), '49-S (15) and '58 (13). Almost 2/3 of all stars come from just 7 date/mm's (e.g. 1/5 of the date/mm's).
And I suppose we ought to have a starred Franklin on this post, so here is the 1949-S (MS65*FBL).
"I was at a local coin show this weekend and stumbled upon a 1949-S Frankie in NGC MS 65*FBL. It was a date/mintmark that I needed, so for a mixture of a 1947 Walker and some cash it was purchased. '49-S's are a tough coin to find with toning, so it is not a spectacular piece..., but the coin is pretty for the date/mintmark. Anyhow, I knew that * Frankies are few and far between, but, being bored on a saturday night, I checked out/compiled the NGC stats. There are a total of 65,360 MS and 13,194 MSFBL Frankies graded at NGC (in this case MS includes all the circulated grades too), a grand total of 78,554 Frankies. For all these tens of thousands of Frankies there are 134 MS* and 62 MS*FBL Frankies, a grand total of 196 * Frankies for the whole series. To put it another way, for every THOUSAND Frankies graded at NGC aproximately 2.5 will get a star and less than 0.8 will get a star FBL. It really brought home to me just how difficult it is to find a nicely toned Frankie, particularly with FBL."
Anyhow, yesterday I decided to see what has happened in the intervening ~ 2 years. Using yesterday's (6/15/08) current census report there are now 72,872 non-fbl and 16,139 FBL Frankies graded, for a grand total of 89,011. Of these there are 173 non-fbl* and 77 FBL* Frankies, for a grand total of 250. The absolute percent has changed a bit, but is still EXCEEDINGLY small. To put it another way, during this time span there were 7,512 non-fbl Frankies graded with 39 getting a star... roughly 0.52% There were 2,945 FBL's graded with 15 getting a star, again roughly 0.51%. In essence for roughly every 200 Frankies graded 1 will get a star.
Oh, and while the 1958-D was the most common, it now numbers 49 total stars, e.g. ~20% of all starred Frankies, the other top five most common dates rather surprised me (except for the '58-P). In order after the '58-D (49) they were; '53-S (25), '52-S (16), '49-S (15) and '58 (13). Almost 2/3 of all stars come from just 7 date/mm's (e.g. 1/5 of the date/mm's).
And I suppose we ought to have a starred Franklin on this post, so here is the 1949-S (MS65*FBL).
0
Comments
While some stars deserve recognition there have been some that made me scratch my head. As well as some non stars that definitely deserve some more attention.
That said, if they catch most of them with consistency then your analysis looks pretty good. I agree that there are only a handful of Frankies that truly stand out.
<< <i>Almost 2 years ago I stumbled upon a 1949-S MS65*FBL Franklin at a small local show. I was seriously pumped, and looked at the NGC census to find out how rare * Franklins were. I figured that 1958-D's would be the most common, with maybe 1957-D's and 1956's right up there. What really intrigued me was to see how rare these puppies were. Here's something I wrote on the TCCS forums at the time, (7/31/06)...
"I was at a local coin show this weekend and stumbled upon a 1949-S Frankie in NGC MS 65*FBL. It was a date/mintmark that I needed, so for a mixture of a 1947 Walker and some cash it was purchased. '49-S's are a tough coin to find with toning, so it is not a spectacular piece..., but the coin is pretty for the date/mintmark. Anyhow, I knew that * Frankies are few and far between, but, being bored on a saturday night, I checked out/compiled the NGC stats. There are a total of 65,360 MS and 13,194 MSFBL Frankies graded at NGC (in this case MS includes all the circulated grades too), a grand total of 78,554 Frankies. For all these tens of thousands of Frankies there are 134 MS* and 62 MS*FBL Frankies, a grand total of 196 * Frankies for the whole series. To put it another way, for every THOUSAND Frankies graded at NGC aproximately 2.5 will get a star and less than 0.8 will get a star FBL. It really brought home to me just how difficult it is to find a nicely toned Frankie, particularly with FBL."
Anyhow, yesterday I decided to see what has happened in the intervening ~ 2 years. Using yesterday's (6/15/08) current census report there are now 72,872 non-fbl and 16,139 FBL Frankies graded, for a grand total of 89,011. Of these there are 173 non-fbl* and 77 FBL* Frankies, for a grand total of 250. The absolute percent has changed a bit, but is still EXCEEDINGLY small. To put it another way, during this time span there were 7,512 non-fbl Frankies graded with 39 getting a star... roughly 0.52% There were 2,945 FBL's graded with 15 getting a star, again roughly 0.51%. In essence for roughly every 200 Frankies graded 1 will get a star.
Oh, and while the 1958-D was the most common, it now numbers 49 total stars, e.g. ~20% of all starred Frankies, the other top five most common dates rather surprised me (except for the '58-P). In order after the '58-D (49) they were; '53-S (25), '52-S (16), '49-S (15) and '58 (13). Almost 2/3 of all stars come from just 7 date/mm's (e.g. 1/5 of the date/mm's).
And I suppose we ought to have a starred Franklin on this post, so here is the 1949-S (MS65*FBL).
I WILL GIVE YOU 1000$ FOR IT
Are you serious???? Cheers, RickO
<< <i>"I WILL GIVE YOU 1000$ FOR IT"
Are you serious???? Cheers, RickO >>
Yes, RickO, he is. This coin is way different from your normal '49-S and is fully starworthy for the date/mm, which is why I was so amazed when I found it at a small local show...
Paul, I REALLY appreciate the offer, but I'm going to turn you down, simply because I like how it looks in my Frankie set... something I'm sure you can understand.
U.S. Type Set
Nice analysis regarding the % of star frankie's to the total graded population. It is shocking to discover the population is sooo small.
Collector of Early 20th Century U.S. Coinage.
ANA Member R-3147111
<< <i>
<< <i>Almost 2 years ago I stumbled upon a 1949-S MS65*FBL Franklin at a small local show. I was seriously pumped, and looked at the NGC census to find out how rare * Franklins were. I figured that 1958-D's would be the most common, with maybe 1957-D's and 1956's right up there. What really intrigued me was to see how rare these puppies were. Here's something I wrote on the TCCS forums at the time, (7/31/06)...
"I was at a local coin show this weekend and stumbled upon a 1949-S Frankie in NGC MS 65*FBL. It was a date/mintmark that I needed, so for a mixture of a 1947 Walker and some cash it was purchased. '49-S's are a tough coin to find with toning, so it is not a spectacular piece..., but the coin is pretty for the date/mintmark. Anyhow, I knew that * Frankies are few and far between, but, being bored on a saturday night, I checked out/compiled the NGC stats. There are a total of 65,360 MS and 13,194 MSFBL Frankies graded at NGC (in this case MS includes all the circulated grades too), a grand total of 78,554 Frankies. For all these tens of thousands of Frankies there are 134 MS* and 62 MS*FBL Frankies, a grand total of 196 * Frankies for the whole series. To put it another way, for every THOUSAND Frankies graded at NGC aproximately 2.5 will get a star and less than 0.8 will get a star FBL. It really brought home to me just how difficult it is to find a nicely toned Frankie, particularly with FBL."
Anyhow, yesterday I decided to see what has happened in the intervening ~ 2 years. Using yesterday's (6/15/08) current census report there are now 72,872 non-fbl and 16,139 FBL Frankies graded, for a grand total of 89,011. Of these there are 173 non-fbl* and 77 FBL* Frankies, for a grand total of 250. The absolute percent has changed a bit, but is still EXCEEDINGLY small. To put it another way, during this time span there were 7,512 non-fbl Frankies graded with 39 getting a star... roughly 0.52% There were 2,945 FBL's graded with 15 getting a star, again roughly 0.51%. In essence for roughly every 200 Frankies graded 1 will get a star.
Oh, and while the 1958-D was the most common, it now numbers 49 total stars, e.g. ~20% of all starred Frankies, the other top five most common dates rather surprised me (except for the '58-P). In order after the '58-D (49) they were; '53-S (25), '52-S (16), '49-S (15) and '58 (13). Almost 2/3 of all stars come from just 7 date/mm's (e.g. 1/5 of the date/mm's).
And I suppose we ought to have a starred Franklin on this post, so here is the 1949-S (MS65*FBL).
I WILL GIVE YOU 1000$ FOR IT >>
That's really strange. When I first saw the picture of that coin, I thought to myself "I'd give him $1000 for it.
John
My icon IS my coin. It is a gem 1949 FBL Franklin.
<< <i>The star designation is a funny thing. Sometimes they give them out and sometimes they don't. I've seen some fairly unspecial coins with a star, and some true stunners without them. >>
Very, very true. I have a 1949 Franklin that is one of the nicest toned (non 57/58) Franklins I have seen and twice it has been to NGC and no star. And nothing against the op's coin (it is very attractive) it blows his coin away.
morris
** I would take a shack on the Rock over a castle in the sand !! **
Don't take life so seriously...nobody gets out alive.
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Amen to that!!!
I have crossed over several stars to PCGS holders just to free them from that crappy white plastique, and I am surely not alone.
edit: Here is one that was starred.
and they're cold.
I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole."
Mary
Best Franklin Website
I will not give you $1000 for it however.
Click on this link to see my ebay listings.
U.S. Type Set
<< <i>
<< <i>The star designation is a funny thing. Sometimes they give them out and sometimes they don't. I've seen some fairly unspecial coins with a star, and some true stunners without them. >>
Very, very true. I have a 1949 Franklin that is one of the nicest toned (non 57/58) Franklins I have seen and twice it has been to NGC and no star. And nothing against the op's coin (it is very attractive) it blows his coin away.
morris >>
O.K. Morris: 500$ for yours !
<< <i>O.K. , O.K. .........I'll go 1100.00 >>
....I mean $ 1200.00
<< <i>
<< <i>O.K. , O.K. .........I'll go 1100.00 >>
....I mean $ 1200.00 >>
Paul, I gotta' tell you, it made me laugh to open up this thread again and find your comment.
Oh, and Morris, I wouldn't be at all surprised if you had a nicer looking 1949 that doesn't have a star, than my 1949-S. I agree with everyone else, I've seen my fair share of coins that shouldn't have a star that have one, and ones that should have a star that don't. I've got several NGC Franklins that should have a star that don't, including date/mm's that are MUCH tougher to find nicely toned than 1949 Phillys. Here's a 1949-D in MS65 that I bought 15-20 years ago that IMHO I've yet to see a finer toner of that date/mm, and it didn't even get an FBL, much less a star when I sent it in for designation review. Needless to say, I verbally expressed myself when I got it back from designation review about a year ago and it hadn't gotten either designation...
So, Paul, your last bid on this one was $2,000. Are you gonna' up that too?
U.S. Type Set
I`ll go 4000 $
My icon IS my coin. It is a gem 1949 FBL Franklin.
U.S. Type Set
<< <i>What do you think of my NGC 65*? He just arrived today.
I would like to splice it to the reverse of mine
66
Cool Reverse