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Sometimes you get a nice cherrypick. Then sometimes you GET cherrypicked. (Draped Bust half)

lordmarcovanlordmarcovan Posts: 43,194 ✭✭✭✭✭
See the coin in the lower left-hand corner of this picture, from my Holey Coin Vest? The 1806 Draped Bust half.

image

Well, I got a holey Draped Bust half with slightly better details, so that 1806 ended up being an extra for the holey type set on the vest.

I got a decent cherrypick on it when I traded for it at the FUN show one year-
I'd swapped some Darkside proof sets for it. I figger I had maybe forty or fifty bucks in it at most.

Well, recently, ol' Cladiator said he was interested in it. I was in no hurry to sell it and was playing with the idea of keeping it, even though I had a nicer-grade 1807.

But I let him talk me into swapping some stuff for it. He got a decent deal in the trade.



Less than a month after getting it, he decided to put it up on eBay. Apparently it was a scarce variety, unbeknownst to either of us.


Ouch. image



Sometimes you're in the driver's seat, and sometimes you're the flattened possum in the middle of the highway.

Good for him, ouch for me.

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Comments

  • rlawsharlawsha Posts: 1,028 ✭✭✭
    wow

    image
  • DNADaveDNADave Posts: 7,239 ✭✭✭✭✭
    OMG. That hurts.
  • ziggy29ziggy29 Posts: 18,668 ✭✭✭
    Ouch. That smarts.
  • Dayum!!!!image
  • BlindedByEgoBlindedByEgo Posts: 10,754 ✭✭✭✭✭

    A painful education. Speaks well for the free market aspect of Ebay, though.

    Sorry.image
  • goose3goose3 Posts: 11,471 ✭✭✭
    Maybe someone can tell us what made it so valuable?

    Perhaps edit you thread title to include "Bust Half" to attact some of those nuts!




    Lordminivan...
    can we kick you while you are down?image
  • Holey crap!!image

    Sorry, couldn't resistimage
  • I too would be very interested to know what made it so valuable.
  • CladiatorCladiator Posts: 17,918 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I just want to make it clear that I did not "cherry pick" LordM. I was just as surprised at the hammer prices as he was/is.
  • lordmarcovanlordmarcovan Posts: 43,194 ✭✭✭✭✭
    You "cherrypicked" the hell outta me. image

    I believe you when you say it was an unintentional cherrypick, though. image

    Explore collections of lordmarcovan on CollecOnline, management, safe-keeping, sharing and valuation solution for art piece and collectibles.
  • Yeouch!

    image


    image


    Larry
    Dabigkahuna
  • itsnotjustmeitsnotjustme Posts: 8,777 ✭✭✭
    What a bonus....

    LM, you apparently cherrypicked someone without knowing it.

    Cladiator then cherry picked you, also without knowing it.

    Two e-bay bidders then rewarded him for his un-announced treasure!
    Give Blood (Red Bags) & Platelets (Yellow Bags)!
  • OKbustchaserOKbustchaser Posts: 5,438 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Well, I am one of those "nuts" and I don't know either. I dropped out of the bidding at 54.00. Also, I don't recognise either of the aliases used by the winner or the underbidder. I have an idea that a couple of people mistook it for a different variety and fed off each other.

    Jim
    Just because I'm old doesn't mean I don't love to look at a pretty bust.
  • BaleyBaley Posts: 22,658 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Oh, I'm sure Cladiator will be making some more purchases from LordMarcovan... share the wealth image

    so what's the variety?

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

  • xbobxbob Posts: 1,979
    DOH!

    Any clue as to the variety and the identification of it?

    Kind of makes you afraid to sell anything unless a diligent variety check is done. Don't it?
    -Bob
    collections: Maryland related coins & exonumia, 7070 Type set, and Video Arcade Tokens.
    The Low Budget Y2K Registry Set
  • lordmarcovanlordmarcovan Posts: 43,194 ✭✭✭✭✭
    That's one reason I posted this- what IS the variety, anyway?

    Explore collections of lordmarcovan on CollecOnline, management, safe-keeping, sharing and valuation solution for art piece and collectibles.
  • itsnotjustmeitsnotjustme Posts: 8,777 ✭✭✭
    Well, you may have lost your shirt but you kept your hat & vest!
    Give Blood (Red Bags) & Platelets (Yellow Bags)!
  • seanqseanq Posts: 8,568 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'd love to know what variety this coin is, all I knew to do was look for the olive branch through the eagle's claw.

    At least you guys know who is buying lunch at the next Forum luncheon. image


    Sean Reynolds
    Incomplete planchets wanted, especially Lincoln Cents & type coins.

    "Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
  • JRoccoJRocco Posts: 14,277 ✭✭✭✭✭
    No clue as to the variety, but would like to know also. Could to two bidders have been a little off base with this one???
    Some coins are just plain "Interesting"
  • lordmarcovanlordmarcovan Posts: 43,194 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I didn't lose any money on it, but I sure did leave a helluva lot lyin' on the table!

    Not the first time this has happened to me, either. I once left $2200 "lying on the table", so to speak, in a similar situation.

    We live and learn.

    Being something of a "general practitioner" in the numismatic arena (a jack of all trades and a specialist in none) I fully expect to get cherrypicked by variety collectors sometimes.

    But this is pretty astonishing. Makes me wonder what else is on that Holey Coin Vest that neither I nor anybody else paid attention to because they were just "holey junk"...

    Explore collections of lordmarcovan on CollecOnline, management, safe-keeping, sharing and valuation solution for art piece and collectibles.
  • BarndogBarndog Posts: 20,454 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm not an expert, but I believe it doesn't match any of the R-6 or R-7 varieties listed by Overton. So maybe these ebayers were experts who noted that it is a unique variety not listed in Overton and therefore an R-8 discovery coin! image
  • OKbustchaserOKbustchaser Posts: 5,438 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The thing is LM, you didn't get cherrypicked. A few ebayers made a collective mistake and one ended up paying for it.

    Jim
    Just because I'm old doesn't mean I don't love to look at a pretty bust.
  • xbobxbob Posts: 1,979
    "Not the first time" double ouch! This reminds me of something from your photoshop contest...

    image

    image Hang in there. How many of us have been 'picked and never know about it?
    -Bob
    collections: Maryland related coins & exonumia, 7070 Type set, and Video Arcade Tokens.
    The Low Budget Y2K Registry Set
  • seanqseanq Posts: 8,568 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Makes me wonder what else is on that Holey Coin Vest that neither I nor anybody else paid attention to because they were just "holey junk"... >>




    You just reminded me of a funny story from WESPNEX last weekend. I was digging through a junk box of obsolete type and finding pretty much nothing worth my efforts, but not wanting to leave empty handed I grabbed these two holed half dimes, one undated bustie and an 1852-O seated. The dealer actually took out his Greysheet and looked up the 1852-O before quoting me $1 apiece for the coins. I guess he was worried that I'd cherrypicked him. I wish I had his email address now, I'd send him the link to that auction. image

    image


    Sean Reynolds
    Incomplete planchets wanted, especially Lincoln Cents & type coins.

    "Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
  • lordmarcovanlordmarcovan Posts: 43,194 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Oh, well.

    Back in February I was on the other end of a cherrypick. That coin will go off to PCGS soon.

    Explore collections of lordmarcovan on CollecOnline, management, safe-keeping, sharing and valuation solution for art piece and collectibles.
  • ms70ms70 Posts: 13,946 ✭✭✭✭✭

    image Let me see that vest a second.

    Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.

  • NysotoNysoto Posts: 3,759 ✭✭✭✭✭
    No Overton book with me, from memory looks like the reverse on O.116. I cannot place the obverse on any pointed six, not 109, 110, 111, 113, 115, 117-122, 124, 125, 127, 128...
    Robert Scot: Engraving Liberty - biography of US Mint's first chief engraver
  • NysotoNysoto Posts: 3,759 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Someone with an Overton book check the obverse, it does not seem to match any. My Overton book is 6 hours away...
    Robert Scot: Engraving Liberty - biography of US Mint's first chief engraver
  • CladiatorCladiator Posts: 17,918 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Mine is on loan to a friend or I would have attributed it already.
  • lordmarcovanlordmarcovan Posts: 43,194 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I've been tellin' myself I need to get one, for a while, now.

    This clinches it.

    Explore collections of lordmarcovan on CollecOnline, management, safe-keeping, sharing and valuation solution for art piece and collectibles.
  • OKbustchaserOKbustchaser Posts: 5,438 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Bill, when did the die crack at the base of the date on 116 appear? I think that's what this one is.

    Jim
    Just because I'm old doesn't mean I don't love to look at a pretty bust.
  • DD Posts: 1,997 ✭✭✭
    Even worse is if Cladiator was just cherrypicked as well and we see the coin again.

    -Daniel
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."

    -Aristotle

    Dum loquimur fugerit invida aetas. Carpe diem quam minimum credula postero.

    -Horace
  • I haven't been able to identify this.

    Ray
  • CameonutCameonut Posts: 7,250 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hey LM
    Seems to me that Cladiator ought to throw you some type of bone for his windfall!

    Of course he is not obligated, it would be the decent thing to do once he has payment and the deal is done.

    “In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson

    My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!

  • MikeInFLMikeInFL Posts: 10,188 ✭✭✭✭
    Did Cladiator split the windfall with you, LMV?
    Collector of Large Cents, US Type, and modern pocket change.
  • NysotoNysoto Posts: 3,759 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Jim,

    The reverse is a match for L, used on O.116, the unmistakable late state die crack and berry to A position. The obverse is definately not 9, used on 116.

    The obverse is similar to 11, used on O.123, 124, and the new 128 (one known obv 11, rev L). But star 7 is way to close to L, and S4 points to a different position on the ribbon, which will not be affected by die state.
    The 6 also does not touch drapery, which it does on obv 11.

    Unless it is a counterfeit or fake, which is unlikely because of the existing reverse, this may be the new discovery of 1806 O.129. A couple of very observant bidders! I need to start looking at holed coins!

    edit - unlikely counterfeit because of the existing reverse L, obverse would be new
    Robert Scot: Engraving Liberty - biography of US Mint's first chief engraver
  • This appears to be a new one. A quick blitz through the brick reveals no obverse with S7 so close to L and S1 so far from the portrait. The reverse may be Reverse L, used on O.116, but is so worn that it will take a few moments to be certain. I'm going to post this to the BHNC forum and I'll post again in a day or so with any new info.

    Good eye, Nysoto.
  • Wolf359Wolf359 Posts: 7,653 ✭✭✭
    Gotta say, cool thread.

    Lord M, I wouldn't feel bad about the cherrypick. If a new variety, only an expert would have realized it. The book wouldn't have
    helped you.
  • seanqseanq Posts: 8,568 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I'm going to post this to the BHNC forum and I'll post again in a day or so with any new info. >>




    I'll bet someone lunch that it's already being discussed over there, either by the winner or the underbidder - maybe both.


    Sean Reynolds
    Incomplete planchets wanted, especially Lincoln Cents & type coins.

    "Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
  • Actually, the book is the only way to know if it is or isn't a new one. Good observational skills and deductive reasoning help, as well.
  • OKbustchaserOKbustchaser Posts: 5,438 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Just because I'm old doesn't mean I don't love to look at a pretty bust.
  • Lordmarcovan,

    The question now is where did you find it? And how does the honor of discovering 1806 O.129 get disbursed? You, who wore it and didn't know what you had? Cladiator didn't seem to know either. Nysoto appears to be the first here to recognize it for what it is. Or maybe colridge or earlymint desrve the credit. Either way, PLEASE take some high quality images before you ship the coin!

    I sent the ebay link and images to Don Parsley. Too bad he has already gone to press with the 4th edition of Overton. Just goes to show that knowledge is king. And spending time on ebay looking at holey coins!
  • krankykranky Posts: 8,709 ✭✭✭
    Wow!

    The last-minute bidding was interesting. The underbidder had bid $1377 with about 10 hours to go, but at that point his high bid would have shown as just a little over $150. The winner bid (at least) $1801 with 13 seconds left, which would have jacked the current bid from around $150 all the way up to around $1400. The eventual underbidder had time to try a late snipe with two seconds to go and went up to $1776, but it wasn't enough. And who knows what the winner's top bid actually was.

    For sure, it's not like the underbidder entered a late snipe of mammoth proportions never expecting to be run up that high, since his $1377 bid had been entered hours before the auction ended.

    It would be very cool if it turned out to be an unknown variety. Hope we hear about it if that's the case.

    New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.

  • CladiatorCladiator Posts: 17,918 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>PLEASE take some high quality images before you ship the coin! >>


    Unfortunately the coin was shipped via Registered Mail this afternoon so the opportunity for me to re-image it is gone. I do however have the very large size version of the photos that appear in the auction. I resized them down to be more auction friendly. The images are massive and I don't want to post them to the thread as it will kill any dial-upper instantly. If you want them, PM me and I will supply them.

    As for crediting the "discovery" I think 99% of the credit should go to the winner of the auction. A mention of the Bust Guys here that first called it seems appropriate as well. Perhaps a very small footnote about LordM and myself in a funny story of how the coin came to be found but I feel neither of us really deserve any true mention. For my part, I never even thought of attributing the coin when I got it. With the wear and the hole it just never occured to me, that being said...I'm confident that if I had tried to attribute it I would not have called it as a discovery coin. My knowledge and experience with the Draped series is minimal at best. Now, if this were a discovery Capped Bust coin that I missed...they'd be fishing me out of the river right now LOL



    ps. If this is the real deal and it makes it to print I'd love to know when/where so I can get a copy for a keepsake image




  • BaleyBaley Posts: 22,658 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Nysoto appears to be the first here to recognize it for what it is. Again!
    And another new draped bust obverse, too image

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

  • relayerrelayer Posts: 10,570
    You got ripped ©

    image
    image
    My posts viewed image times
    since 8/1/6
  • JoesMaNameJoesMaName Posts: 1,061 ✭✭✭


    << <i>That's one reason I posted this- what IS the variety, anyway? >>



    Looks like a drapless bust, very rare and quite naughty!
    Paul - saved by
    The Fireman...
  • TorinoCobra71TorinoCobra71 Posts: 8,020 ✭✭✭
    MEGA OUCH!!!!!!

    TorinoCobra71

    image

    TorinoCobra71

    image
  • MercMerc Posts: 1,646 ✭✭
    I am surprised at the price on this one. The rare variety for a 1806 is the knob 6 on the obverse paired with a reverse where the lower stem of the branch is missing. This coin is not the rare variety.
    Looking for a coin club in Maryland? Try:
    FrederickCoinClub
  • May I ask what is a darkside proof?
    Love them busts!
    I am Looking to Buy California Tokens too.

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