Grade the 1860 seated half, vote in the poll

Baley · June 14, 2005 12:07PM

upgraded my No Motto type coin, what do you think?

mozin · June 14, 2005 12:15PM

I am no expert on grading Seated material but I do not see any rub on this one and it looks very clean to me. Pictures are often deceiving but this one could be MS65. Note that if I am way off I will refrain from attempting to grade future Seated material.

TorinoCobra71 · June 14, 2005 12:19PM

I vote MS63...

TorinoCobra71

mirabela · June 14, 2005 12:22PM

If it's a 58 it's a frickin' awesome one. And, per earlier gradeflation threads, I'd be surprised that it's still in a 58 holder. That said, I clicked 64. This one's unusual in that, at least from what I can see in the pic, the obverse is better than the reverse. They seem rarely to come that way.

Anyway, beautiful coin.

WWW · June 14, 2005 12:24PM

Wow! What a nice looking coin. The no motto's are especially nice to behold. I'll guess MS64.

edited to add: The obverse rim at 1 o'clock looks a bit banged up. How much that factors in to the grade, I wouldn't have a clue.

mgoodm3 · June 14, 2005 12:35PM

The area above half dol on the rev: rubby bits? So I said 58. Nice half.

roadrunner · June 14, 2005 1:01PM

I'd grade the reverse only a 64 because it appears to have some chatter and wipes above and below the eagle. The obv is essentially 65 but the reverse should keep it out of 65. For what it's worth I've seen a top tier TPG grade a worse coins as 66....but that doesn't change what the coin really is.

In a 65 holder this would be a low end 65 imo and in a 64 holder a very solid or PQ piece. Nice coin...where's the "S" mint mark??

roadrunner

clw54 · June 14, 2005 1:03PM

I put 64 because I didn't see any wear on it and it looked better than 63.

dtkk49a · June 14, 2005 1:06PM

I say 63

fivecents · June 14, 2005 1:12PM

MS65

Coinhusker1 · June 14, 2005 1:13PM

62, due to the apparent hairlines under the eagle. If that is on the holder, then 64, shot-65.

Baley · June 14, 2005 1:30PM

Thanks for your comments, some are on the right track..

Elcontador · June 14, 2005 1:36PM

It appears the marks near star 7 & Miss Liberty's head are on the holder, not the coin. I agree w Roadrunner, think it's an MS 64. There's too much chatter on this coin for a 5.

prooflike · June 14, 2005 1:50PM

I voted MS63, by the image, there doesn't seem to be any rub.

Oldnewbie · June 14, 2005 3:29PM

I went with 64.

Baley · June 15, 2005 2:59AM

The coin is AU55

I'm surprised no one got it "right"

mgoodm3 · June 15, 2005 3:04AM

Well, we need a debriefing. Why 55?

mgoodm3 · June 15, 2005 3:05AM

Oh, and that's evil that 55 isn't in the available answers.

Oh, wait a minute it's down low. Did you vote 55?

PutTogether · June 15, 2005 3:05AM

where is the wear?

DrWho · June 15, 2005 3:06AM

that's a heck of a good lookin 55!

DJC · June 15, 2005 3:08AM

Just saw this. No fair guessing now, but I figured either a 58 (if they caught the rub, or old holder) or 63-4 (if market graded, or newer holder). If that's a 55, it's the nicest I've ever seen in a 55 holder. Wanna sell it? I'll pay full bid for it!

Seriously, if you paid anywhere near AU money for it, it was the steal of a lifetime! (63 money was still a good bargain even, IMO)

AlaBill · June 15, 2005 3:08AM

It looks to grade at least 64 to me, possible higher.

CalGold · June 15, 2005 3:24AM

55? No way. Did they net graded it for altered surface below the eagle?

CG

Elcontador · June 15, 2005 4:00AM

I could see a 63 due to the chatter. But I don't see any wear, nor do I see any differences in color / luster breaks which would lead me to believe it's an AU. Even the eagle's wingtips are full, which is the first place I look to see wear.

Perhaps there are some luster breaks that don't show in the image.

Darkmane · June 15, 2005 5:12AM

i saw some moderate "cabinet friction" but thought it was lovely. i'd love to buy it as a 55, but am shocked its not in a 62 holder (my guess from only first pictures)

mozin · June 15, 2005 6:54AM

That's it for me, no more guessing on Seated series.

AlaBill · June 15, 2005 7:29AM

With my guess at 64 and possible higher, I suppose I should call David Hall and withdraw my application for a grading job. How this grades 55 is beyond me.

Baley · June 16, 2005 1:11AM

Great coin for an album type set

Baley · June 16, 2005 4:37AM

by the way, no one should feel bad for a high estimate, this was a tricky one!
the coin looks like a MS63, just the kind of coin I like in my Dansco album, looks a lot more expensive than it really was
the 1860 upgrades me from this 1844

that's a coin I'd like to have seen when it came off the dies... wow

What do you think this one grades?

Oldnewbie · June 16, 2005 2:10PM

I certainly don't feel bad. I have fun and learn doing this. That was a great coin to post for the old "Guess the Grade" game.

relayer · June 16, 2005 3:53PM

I voted.

Did I win?

Elcontador · June 16, 2005 5:37PM

Thank you Baley for an educational exercise in why you shouldn't buy a coin based on an image alone. I would hope that I could pick up the light cleaning if I saw the coin in hand (but this is why I like a second set of eyes to look at a coin in case something like this gets by me).

Baley · June 16, 2005 7:29PM

anyone else have some seated halves to show?

Baley · September 22, 2006 2:07AM

another interesting gtg thread..

291fifth · September 22, 2006 2:14AM

MS63. The obverse is better but the reverse has some issues.

MORE THOUGHTS:

The coin does not look cleaned from the photos. I'll bet that someday it ends up in a major brand holder with a mint state designation.

Baley · April 17, 2010 6:52AM

naw, this coin's still raw-in-album

tjkillian · April 17, 2010 10:15AM

It is clearly an MS-64. If you submitted it to PCGS, I could see it grading MS-64+

Want to sell it for AU-55 money?

DoubleEagle59 · April 17, 2010 10:17AM

I vote ms65.

OchoReales · April 17, 2010 10:21AM

I voted 64. Looks like I'm in good company, win OR lose!

Wow, OLD resurrected thread! Why?

crypto79 · April 17, 2010 10:21AM

I went 64 too

Barry · April 17, 2010 10:47AM

<< <i>anyone else have some seated halves to show? >>

There are a couple in my 7070 (click on link in sig line for full set). Both were cracked out of holders if anyone wants to play gtg.
Here are a couple of bigger pics:

lkeigwin · April 17, 2010 11:12AM

I have but one and it shouldn't be hard to grade. Oh yeah, I guess 64 for OP's coin.
Lance.

roadrunner · April 18, 2010 7:27AM

The coin is AU55 ........I'm surprised no one got it "right"

What do I think? For starters, the grading service got this one horribly wrong. Even from the photo the fact that the coin has a full, uninterupted cartwheel is hard to miss. The usual spots where rub is found are perfectly peaked and rounded (eagle's brow-wingtips-knuckles, arrow head tips, Liberty's cheek-hair-arms-breasts-drapery lines, etc.). Might be the slightest touch of flatness at the very end of Liberty's leg/knee area. But I've seen so many TPG MS64's with massive plateaus all the way down her leg that this is more than market acceptable for a MS63/64.

The real kicker is that the flat part of the obverse rim from 11:00 to 3:00 is rough and perfectly coated in mint luster. That's usually the first thing to start going when coins are handled while in circulation. You just don't see AU coins with full field luster and rim luster. And if you do, then they are still worth MS63 money. Some old time cabinet-kept coins do show those particular features. Note also the unmolested wire rim on the obverse. If the grading service was net grading this coin for some other issue such as cleaning, etc. then it should have been body bagged in the first place. It seems inappropriate to me to take an otherwise choice unc coin and then holder it by lowering it 7-9 MS points.

roadrunner

tradedollarnut · April 18, 2010 12:56PM

I guessed MS62 due to the work done under the eagle. AU55? Hmmmm - only if it was severely net graded instead of body bagged. Is that an ANACS holder? My first hand experience with ANACS is that they used to silently net grade coins the other services body bag.

Baley · April 18, 2010 4:15PM

Yes, there's a patch of hairlines below the eagle, and a few elsewhere on the reverse. And yes it was "net 55" and yes this was a long time ago... it's been in the album 5 years.
Was just curious to see how the bell curve looked after a few newer members voted in the poll

Batman23 · April 18, 2010 5:42PM

Obviously my opinion is different, I guessed MS63.

<< <i>anyone else have some seated halves to show? >>

melvin289 · April 18, 2010 7:43PM

I am by no means an expert on seated coins. I only own 2, a 20¢ piece and a half dollar. But there is no way I see AU 55 on that one. No, No, No, that just won't do.

Ron

Baley · May 24, 2015 3:46AM

LoL, all grades below 70 are "net" grades, this one included

mercurydimeguy · May 24, 2015 4:02AM

This coin graded MS61, ironically I sold both my 63's cause this one just looked nicer, the 61 has way more luster (cartwheel booming) and less chatter. Why it graded MS61 I don't know but I guess there is something they don't like about it.

golden · May 24, 2015 6:42AM

<< <i>that's a heck of a good lookin 55! >>

roadrunner · May 24, 2015 7:03AM

Funny that I thought this was a new post and then realized I had already voted 5 years ago. So I made a different attempt 5 years later (w/o peaking) and came up with 63/shot to 64 due to some wiping under the eagle and chatter above its head. The obverse still looks very choice. That's a full grade lower than what I thought 5 yrs ago. Grading is not static - neither for us or the TPG's. I agree with the rest of my old comments. The luster on that coin is just not correct for an AU55 coin.

Grade the 1860 seated half, vote in the poll

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