Message from David Hall

homerunhall · November 11, 2002 11:21AM

Hello Everyone...

Rick Montgomery has resigned from his position as President of PCGS. Here's what we are doing to fill the gaps left by his departure. Ron Howard has been named Director of Grading. After a 15 year career as a buyer for major companies (Heritage, Paramount, Kagin...for whom he purchased hundreds of millions of dollars worth of top quality coins), Ron joined PCGS as a full time grader in Feb, 1987. Ron has been with us since that time and has always been a senior grader, occupying the "first chair" for most of that time. In my opinion (and I've seen almost everyone there is to see...even Mark Salzburg used to work at PCGS), Ron is one of the best coin graders in the world. Ron will be responsible for the quality and consistency of the PCGS final grade. Note to all...we don't use a finalizer. We have a system of verification and "double verification." Ron will grade, do the second decision on any proposed verification changes, do cross-over verifications, and do all the double verifications.

As for my role, I will not be grading, though they occasionally ask my opinion on big coins. I will be very involved in customer liason. If you have any specific complaints about coins, I'm not only willing to talk to you, I astually want to see all of the coins you have questions on. Please call Sandy Locker at 800-447-8848, ext 131 or email her at sandyl@collectors.com and she'll explain how to get coins to me.

As for the PCGS Set Registry. the Registry remains in the very capable hands of BJ Searls and her team. I will continue my work on the set weighting and other Registry numismatic issues.

We appreciate all of your continued support. Please call me direct if you have any comments, complaints, or suggestions.

David Hall

PS...I usually don't have time to read the message boards, so if you want to get ahold of me, please call me or Sandy direct.

airplanenut · November 11, 2002 11:25AM

Thanks for the info

And since you only have 7 posts, might I welcome you to the forums... feel free to stay a while and chat

Jeremy

braddick · November 11, 2002 11:25AM

Sounds like PCGS is keeping it together. D. Hall: It's too bad you don't have time to post more (seven posts, member since 04/2001) though. It would be worthwhile for everyone if you did.
Good luck with your new level of responsibilities.

PQpeace · November 11, 2002 11:27AM

As for my role, I will not be grading, though they occasionally ask my opinion on big coins. I will be very involved in customer liason. If you have any specific complaints about coins, I'm not only willing to talk to you, I astually want to see all of the coins you have questions on. Please call Sandy Locker at 800-447-8848, ext 131 or email her at sandyl@collectors.com and she'll explain how to get coins to me.

I guess I will be the first guy to send David coins I have a problem with the grade.
I think I will start with about 40 morgans and 5 peace dollars.

Get ready David !
Larry

tradedollarnut · November 11, 2002 11:28AM

David: Excellent post! I am certain that you being actively involved in receiving feedback from PCGS's customers is a huge step in the right direction.

PQpeace · November 11, 2002 11:33AM

I would also like to know the reasons Rick left...
anyone else want to know ?
Larry

Fairlaneman · November 11, 2002 11:45AM

David Hall has always, as far as I know, wanted to see Coins that Collectors have questions about. This Courtesy was extened to myself last year when I had a problem with what was done to some Cross Overs I submitted. Unfortunately I did not take him up on the offer to check the coins personally.

Maybe this just was not brought out into the open and now it has been. Personally I have no problems with PCGS customer service. Sure some of thier Grading is Flakey, but as far as getting responses from them I have no problems with them at all.

Ken

Placid · November 11, 2002 11:51AM

As long as Ron Howard dosen't let Otis touch the coins fine with me

wondercoin · November 11, 2002 12:00PM

David: Thanks for this post. I am curious if a "President" of PCGS will be named, but, I am sure you will address this issue down the road. The title of "Director of Grading" is not one that Rick carried as of last week, as far as I know.

Having you and Sandy handle customer service related issues is wonderful. Like Laura, I have a coin in at PCGS on behalf of a collector, which Rick had been working on for a while now. I'll call you tomorrow to discuss it.

Congratulations on keeping everything "together" the way you have during this trying time!

Wondercoin

robertpr · November 11, 2002 12:01PM

Wow, at first I thought this was some kind of joke, then I went to the PCGS main website and saw the information posted there as well. Was there any specific reason for Rick's departure? Thanks for taking the time out of your busy day to let us know what's going on.

jtryka · November 11, 2002 12:02PM

So where did Rick go? Or did I just miss that part after I got confused on all the double talk on double verification?

robertpr · November 11, 2002 12:05PM

baseball, is that a fact or a guess?

Ronyahski · November 11, 2002 12:06PM

<< 
PS...I usually don't have time to read the message boards, so if you want to get ahold of me, please call me or Sandy direct. >>

Rick - I strongly suggest you take some time and read some of the recent forum posts from dealers and collectors alike, many of whom represent the PCGS client base. There is alot of good feedback already in the forum. PCGS has developed a legitimate and serious credibility issue concerning its grading consistency and it would do the company well to take heed and tackle this problem head on.

Not only am I concerned as a long-time PCGS collector, PCGS member, forum member, and client of these dealers, I am also a (rare breed) CLCT shareholder. From any perspective I am concerned. Hope you are reading.

CLASSICS · November 11, 2002 12:08PM

daivd has stepped up to the plate, sounds like he wants to be fair with everone, to bad he doesnt have more time to chat with us. and david if you happen to read this message, i still have the superb deep cameo proof dollar you sold me back in 1974.......no david...it is not for sale. take care.

davefperry · November 11, 2002 12:30PM

Seven posts in a year and a half.
David who?

robertpr · November 11, 2002 12:40PM

After having read some further information, I'm somewhat caught up. For those of you who haven't seen these threads, please do so now.

Thread 1 (Laura's comments are particularly interesting)
Thread 2

JLW · November 11, 2002 12:44PM

<< Seven posts in a year and a half.
David who? >>

Sounds like David needs to make the time to read and post on these boards, or hire someone to interact a little more with their clients and do just that. (And not just the big-boys). A neglected customer base is a soon lost customer base IMO.
Joe

oreville · November 11, 2002 1:02PM

Look and see how NGC does it on their web site. They rotate their graders to answer the various questions raised. That should serve as the model for the PCGS Q & A board.

Perhaps we burned Rick Montgomery out with all the questions we had for him? They obviously built up over a long period of time and must have taken him ages to answer as not enough interaction had ocurred for too long.

KoinKollector · November 11, 2002 1:07PM

David Hall of PCG$ says, "Note to all...we don't use a finalizer. We have a system of verification and "double verification." Ron will grade, do the second decision on any proposed verification changes, do cross-over verifications, and do all the double verifications."

So I guess no one else has a problem w/ what he just said?? After hearing it from other people at PCGS, including Rick, not to mention their counterfiet & grading book, which said that coins sent to PCGS are seen by 3 graders, and then it goes to the "finalizer" who has the final say in the grade of the coin. So would anyone at PCGS clarify what DH just said? It freeking looks like PCGS's lawyer wrote this entire message.

CLASSICS · November 11, 2002 1:09PM

<< Seven posts in a year and a half.
David who? >>

..............david hall.........he man who started it all.

Whitewashqtr · November 11, 2002 1:10PM

Of course Mr. Hall s going to say the right things now.. what else can he do? But only time will tell if PCGS will truly be the leader for years to come. Sounds like NGC could have a leg up.

BTW.. how could one person be a "grader, do the second decision on any proposed verification changes, do cross-over verifications, and do all the double verifications"? Sounds like PCGS only has one good grader.. or there is a lot of conflict in Mr. Howard's job description.

We shall see.. we shall see!!

WWQ

dpoole · November 11, 2002 1:21PM

This is a bombshell.

One wonders what it means, when a man apparently regarded as reponsive to the customer base in a company whose customer service has a mixed reputation, jumps suddenly in an apparently parallel move to the company's major rival.

All this happens amidst much tumult recently about sudden "tightening" in grading at PCGS, and perceptions of better response/customer support/turn around and grading consistentcy at NGC.

Then we hear from Mr. Hall, who's been the point of concern about conflict of interest, and we get confusing and worrisome information about how PCGS is going to be grading coins now.

This may or not be a good thing for PCGS. But as far as us schmoes out in the boonies, all of this looks like instability, internal turmoil and crisis.

I recommend that PCGS regroup, stabilize, communicate and set the standard for responsible and consistent grading, communication, responsiveness and integrity, before they lose out to somebody who does.

Android · November 11, 2002 1:23PM

<< [Sounds like David needs to make the time to read and post on these boards, or hire someone to interact a little more with their clients and do just that. (And not just the big-boys). A neglected customer base is a soon lost customer base IMO. >>

I couldn't agree more. Our little microcosm of collector and dealer sentiment should have been listened to here on the forums long ago, and addressed. What better barometer of the market perception of one's products than one's own website? It's too simple. Or perhaps our hosts feel that WE are to simple. It's hard to tell with little or no interaction. Although I applaud Mr. Hall's post, it rings hollow with me unless it is followed with concrete action. Mr. Hall, have a serious conversation with us, ask for our opinions and suggestions, talk to us collectively - right here. But most of all, listen to us. The success or failure of your company may depend on it!

Andy

SarasotaFrank · November 11, 2002 1:40PM

I think you need some level of success in life in order to be a coin collector, and I would guess this is a pretty smart bunch.

With that said, am I among the few here who recognize this carefully worded "press release" as a sure sign that PCGS is circling the drain? Losing your President to your largest competitor and making a statement about how responsibilities are going to be "re-assigned" to "make do", sounds like a recipe for disaster to me.

I write business communications for a living, and disaster plans are a part of what I do, making public statements when the worst things happen. This, in my opinion, looks like major trouble.

Further, to have a forum of this caliber where your customers talk about your company and "not having the time to read"?????

Lunacy.

I have never sent a coin to PCGS.

I don't see that trend changing.

g097103 · November 11, 2002 1:44PM

It will be interesting to see what happens. Looks like inner turmoi,l but that can be good or bad, time will tell. Some
companies come out stronger, others....

Scott M

DMWJR · November 11, 2002 1:55PM

Frank, I don't really have a dog in the hunt, but where would you go if you were Rick Montgomery? People at the top tend to move around at the top in their industry, IMHO. I certainly don't think the drain plug has been pulled . . . yet.

SarasotaFrank · November 11, 2002 2:58PM

depends where I stood at PCGS. I don't know about Rick's ownership position, but I would be thinking about new markets, new business areas, addressing competitive inroads, broadening the scope of the company, capitalizing on competitive weaknesses, sprucing up the balance sheet, bringing in the dog, putting out the cat, etc, etc.

and one thing I would have been doing, is reading a forum where my customers express their views. Know your customers, listen to your customers, they control your company.

IrishMike · November 11, 2002 4:57PM

Am I the only one who doesn't understand how they grade coins, after Hall's post? No CEO and no President and you guys are kissing his, um, er ring. Pretty desperate for attention guys. Let's wait and pass judgment when we find out what really is going on.

cladking · November 11, 2002 8:10PM

This may be Clankeye's chance to quit his "day job". He could synopsize each day's
activity and present it at the CU morning meeting. Not only will they come to see what
fine entertainment it is, but they'll be able to keep up with the thoughts, and activities
of their many guests with a minimal expenditure of time and effort.

Legend · November 11, 2002 8:11PM

This is the biggest wake up call PCGS will ever get. Thye'd basically bottomed in more ways than most people know about. Its been the market leader since grading began. Now it suddenly finds itself in a defensive postion. Should be very interesting to watch the activities of the next year.

They need rehab!

Laura Sperber
lsperber1@hotmail.com

abmluce · November 11, 2002 8:46PM

A word about customer service. My wife and I run 2 inns. We put a comment card in every room, plus some in the lobby. We rely on the feedback from our guests to make our places better. Everyone who fills one out gets a discount the next year. A business who ignores its clients soon finds out it has no clients left.

nwcs · November 11, 2002 10:04PM

Maybe it's my marketing degree talking, but this forum is a wealth of market research that all the companies, including NGC, should mine. NGC's forum isn't nearly as active as this one. And where you have a number of collectors, investors, and dealers openly talking (most company message boards never have talking) it is an opportunity to learn and respond. To not do so is either arrogance ("We know what our customers want") or folly ("We don't want to know what our customers think").

Neil

Dog97 · November 11, 2002 11:26PM

D. Hall really got roasted on the card board last time he was on the board so he's been hiding out.
I wonder if Rick M. got canned because of Legend's doctored Double Eagle?
I would like to know more about their system of verification and "double verification," sounds different than the way I thought they graded coins.
If PCGS goes the way of ACG & PCI & SEGS it would really hurt the hobby and I hope they close their doors first.

A future post from Conder101 might say "That is the rare PCGS 13-A from late 2002. Only in production the last 2 months PCGS was in business. As a cost cutting measure the paper insert was discontinued and the grade was simply wrote on the slab with a Sharpie."

Gilbert · November 11, 2002 11:45PM

Wow, at first I thought this was some kind of joke, then I went to the PCGS main website and saw the information posted there as well. Was there any specific reason for Rick's departure? Thanks for taking the time out of your busy day to let us know what's going on.

-------------------------
-Robert

I looked for some info yesterday and it still had Rick as VP of something and Pres of PCGS. I guess I need to check it again.

One wonders what it means, when a man apparently regarded as reponsive to the customer base in a company whose customer service has a mixed reputation, jumps suddenly in an apparently parallel move to the company's major rival.

I, for one, damn sure would like to know what is really going on. I considered Rick and Carol the mainstay of PCGS customer service (is she gone too?) and when the "people person" of the company RESIGNS, it can only cause concern and speculation.

Hey RICK, since you are no longer an employee, you can jump right in and let us staunch supporters have an inkling on why you abandoned ship (gurgle gurgle)

STEWARTBLAYNUMIS · November 11, 2002 11:49PM

Let's wait and see what Mark Salzberg has to say about Rick Montgomery going to work for NGC

Even more important lets wait and see what Rick Montgomery has to say about his future in the coin business

So far David Hall is the only man that has stepped up to the plate and made a formal announcement.He has stated Rick Montgomery has RESIGNED as President of PCGS.He has also stated Ron Howard is director of grading

The present fact is that for the most part is that PCGS coins are worth more than NGC coins in the same grade.Myself like white wash quarter and many others on this message board are very concerned our coins hold their value and are prepared to protect our interest.

Stewart Blay

DMWJR · November 12, 2002 12:01AM

I personally don't think Rick is going to say anything other than what good things he wants to do at NGC. Anything remotely derrogatory about PCGS would be a big mistake on his part, and I'm saying right here right now that it is never going to happen.

Nor are your currently graded PCGS coins going to go down in value. Time will tell what future slabs will trade for, and that will be solely based on the public perception of how grading standards are applied for them.

leothelyon · November 12, 2002 12:01AM

I wonder if they are going to throw Rick a going away party? And we should be invited. If not, then we
forum members should have a party for him.....right here on this forum.
I think Rick would really appreciate it.
What do you say guys?

Leo

Dog97 · November 12, 2002 12:05AM

And then we could go over to NGC and have a Welcome Newbie party for him!

coinguy1 · November 12, 2002 12:08AM

Dog - Rick did not get "canned", or asked to leave, I assure you. And, it had nothing to do with Laura's coin. It was his decision.

Stewart - don't you have more important things to be doing?

Rick is going to be going to NGC, even if you haven't officially heard it yet.

STEWARTBLAYNUMIS · November 12, 2002 12:16AM

Coinguy1 - You must read what I wrote as I said Rick was going to NGC

I am trying to do business with you but you keep telling me your busy.........but you keep PLAYING on this forum

Stewart

Gilbert · November 12, 2002 12:30AM

Oh, by the way ...

This Ron Howard guy isn't "Opie," is it?

Don't get offended guy, I know it can't be the first time it was asked.

coinguy1 · November 12, 2002 12:37AM

Stewart, if you truly want to do business (other than monkey business) please PM me a list of coins you have for sale at FAIR prices- thanks.

Placid · November 12, 2002 12:49AM

What job will Rick M. do at ngc? What is the person at ngc who does that job now going to do?

danglen · November 12, 2002 12:55AM

SarasotaFrank, if I lived in Sarasota (home of NGC), I wouldn't send coins to PCGS either

There's something to be said for home-field advantage.

Whitewashqtr · November 12, 2002 1:26AM

Homefield advantage? Just ask Wondercoin if it has helped him. I bet you he cant say it hasnt. Actually, I am testing the guarantee regrade policy on a PCGS coin and was asked what I can do for a replacement.

The response was "go ask Wondercoin, he will know where to find one!!"

nwcs · November 12, 2002 1:45AM

Thing is, if Rick goes to NGC, how will he be able to deal with the (probable) non-compete clauses he (probably) signed (which usually extend to 1-3 years after employment)?

tradedollarnut · November 12, 2002 2:28AM

Rick is going to NGC - what is the point of "guessing" whether or not he signed a non compete?

Most non competes are specific as far as region, duration and actions. If there is a non compete, there are a multitude of ways to comply and still work for a competitor. For instance - the non compete my company has with its President would still allow him to work for a competitor in a different region or in a different position of responsibility.

robertpr · November 12, 2002 4:37AM

<< I personally don't think Rick is going to say anything other than what good things he wants to do at NGC. Anything remotely derrogatory about PCGS would be a big mistake on his part, and I'm saying right here right now that it is never going to happen. >>

Not only would it be a mistake, it would be very very un-classy. Anyone who says derogatory things about others, whether they deserve it or not, is not a very classy individual nor a very professional one. Rick is, from what I can tell, both a class-act and a professional. So no, I don't expect him to say anything but all the good things he'll do at NGC, and he'll probably throw out some good words about PCGS too (whether he means them or not).

I also noticed that Mr. Hall did not "wish Rick the best at NGC". I assume then that Mr. Hall is not happy with what is happening.

EVillageProwler · November 12, 2002 4:46AM

No one ever accused DHall of being a class act.

EVP

KoinKollector · November 12, 2002 4:54AM

<< No one ever accused DHall of being a class act.

EVP >>

How could they? Everytime I read his "letter" i feel the sudden need to take a shower!

monsterman · November 12, 2002 6:09AM

great move for ngc.............they havew been working on it for a while.i guess they pay more than just CLCT stock options

gregg

Message from David Hall

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