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AWA/Al Wittnebert COA Legit?
LarkinCollector
Posts: 8,975 ✭✭✭✭✭
Are these trustworthy? I'm looking at an auto'd piece, but haven't heard of AWA before.
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LarkinCollector
Posts: 8,975 ✭✭✭✭✭
LarkinCollector
Posts: 8,975 ✭✭✭✭✭
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Less keystrokes than posting questions here and immediate results.
Eric
Here's the auto in question, Humphrey Bogart:
My first response was "do you think the signature is authentic" because anyone buying on the strength of a certificate is going to lose in the end.
Do you think the signature is authentic?
Offhand, and from memory, it is unlike Bogart's signature in enough ways that I would pass. However, that is me being careful. It is very fluid and warrants examination. I pass until I know more (see more about scan below). I assume it is forgery and work from there. It is safest.
When were the papers issued? have you confirmed this is the item that was given the papers? They only accept returns for authenticity if another UACC Reg Dealer says it is not real not my cup of tea. That is not quite right IMHO.
Others here will have an opinion. Signature looks fluid but may be problematic - loops (more than 1/2) seem off and slant is odd. Scan suggests fountain pen but is "digitized" or textured - I can't read the surface at all. I do not know Bogart's signature like others I have dealt with more.
Right now, I say pass - likely problem.
Edit to add - I'd pass. My own opinion.
People mention this dealer with that, Conway's with RR and JSA and PSA with...UACC all in one breath.
It is best to do the homework yourself
Eric
<< <i>Cool.
My first response was "do you think the signature is authentic" because anyone buying on the strength of a certificate is going to lose in the end.
Do you think the signature is authentic?
Offhand, and from memory, it is unlike Bogart's signature in enough ways that I would pass. However, that is me being careful. It is very fluid and warrants examination. I pass until I know more (see more about scan below). I assume it is forgery and work from there. It is safest.
When were the papers issued? have you confirmed this is the item that was given the papers? They only accept returns for authenticity if another UACC Reg Dealer says it is not real not my cup of tea. That is not quite right IMHO.
Others here will have an opinion. Signature looks fluid but may be problematic - loops (more than 1/2) seem off and slant is odd. Scan suggests fountain pen but is "digitized" or textured - I can't read the surface at all. I do not know Bogart's signature like others I have dealt with more.
Right now, I say pass - likely problem.
Edit to add - I'd pass. My own opinion.
People mention this dealer with that, Conway's with RR and JSA and PSA with...UACC all in one breath.
It is best to do the homework yourself
Eric >>
From the few exemplars I've seen that I'm sure are authentic, the capital letters are consistent as is the 'ph' transition. I have concerns since if it's genuine, it's a very rushed signature and would probably be considered a low-mid grade auto. His penmanship was generally much nicer.
The papers were issued in 2010 and include a photo of this auto in the papers. The slant is what worried me the most as I have not seen it like this before.
I'm more familiar with sports autos, but would like to diversify into some early movie stars and Bogey was always a fav. Lauren Bacall was my first auto in this arena and I feel confident authenticating her signature personally and can generally identify when it was signed as it's gotten pretty shaky of late. I know JSA & PSA/DNA have had their issues as well, but are generally well respected and highly marketable if I ever need to sell. I don't know if there are better authenticators for this type of auto and was just trying to gauge if any others here had dealt with AWA or had any opinions one way or another.
I will pass for now, but want to thank you for taking the time to look at it as well. I like to check out multiple opinions before making a purchase like this. I know there are some COAs that immediately prompt a 'forgery' response and didn't want to do a lot of further research if this was one of those 'authenticators'.
You are welcome. Yes, at a minimum it is not typical and will be a hard sell. You know the old saying about "rushed signatures"...
The scale of the "H" and "B" are out of tune to each other, formation of the "H" seems backward if anything, the slant is very odd and that "p" and "h" transition looks unlike any pair I have seen before in that they echo each other - almost so into the "B". Loop volumes are unusual. It might be worthwhile to date all these features and see where this fits in. When/where as it obtained? I do not find this signature consistent. Unless guaranteed to pass PSA/DNA or whatever god you worship, if any of them mean that much to you, I'd pass. It is likely very difficult to find another UACC Reg Dealer that will disagree woth another member and that is your only recourse - if there is a problem. They will give a quick opinion from a scan.
I would seek several opinions. I would ask our own members here to have a look. TheNavarro, Dboonesq etc. I see no reason to jump on this example instead of others - not typical, unsubscribed, album page...
Best wishes,
Eric
Hello again,
See:
Bogart
What do you think? I find the second "h"...the "B"...maybe problematic...closed "B" at at that...is it really that fluid?
Best wishes,
Eric
<< <i>Hello again,
See:
Bogart
What do you think? I find the second "h"...the "B"...maybe problematic...closed "B" at at that...is it really that fluid?
Best wishes,
Eric >>
I find signing signatures over 50 years after your dead to be problematic
ETA: ,but I've seen some certified by the 'gold standard' of authentication in the past (pick your fav authenticator).
Observations about the second "h", the formation of the "H", the shape of the "B", the closed "B", and volume of the loops and the slant...that "p" & "h" transition...and it does look hesitant in areas. I wonder what P s A would say - I'd still not buy it unless I saw many, many more in-person signatures that were of the type offered - the dramatically larger "B" and so on for starters.
I have no favorite authenticator.
Best wishes,
Eric
Eric
Eric
You have your finger on it - plot the characteristics on a timeline. That is what I meant earlier. This item seems jumbled in time, like a 1964 Garland with a capital "G". I bet I know the reason...
Eric