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a question about vintage packs
49ersGuy
Posts: 382 ✭✭
Every know and then I run into this and it has always left me curious so I thought I would bring it up here and get your thoughts and opinions.
When looking for vintage packs/boxes to buy on E-bay I sometimes run into situations where I see someone selling packs individually with stars on the front as well as selling boxes from the same year. Logically I'm thinking there is no way I am going to touch those boxes because there is a good chance this guy went though the box taking out certain packs and replacing them with others.
BBCE obviously wraps their boxes to prevent this from happening but many of the boxes that reach BBCE come from 3rd party and still could of had packs switched very easily before being sent out to BBCE. I would imagine it would be near impossible for BBCE to tell if packs were swapped.
So basically the question I thought I would bring up is just how prevalent do you think this is? I'm also curious what your thoughts are in regards to the ability of any company even one as reputable as BBCE ability to catch boxes that have been cherry picked before reselling them?
When looking for vintage packs/boxes to buy on E-bay I sometimes run into situations where I see someone selling packs individually with stars on the front as well as selling boxes from the same year. Logically I'm thinking there is no way I am going to touch those boxes because there is a good chance this guy went though the box taking out certain packs and replacing them with others.
BBCE obviously wraps their boxes to prevent this from happening but many of the boxes that reach BBCE come from 3rd party and still could of had packs switched very easily before being sent out to BBCE. I would imagine it would be near impossible for BBCE to tell if packs were swapped.
So basically the question I thought I would bring up is just how prevalent do you think this is? I'm also curious what your thoughts are in regards to the ability of any company even one as reputable as BBCE ability to catch boxes that have been cherry picked before reselling them?
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For those boxes with a FASC designation, Steve and Team saw the box being opened from a sealed case and denote it as such. This is effectively their designation for, "no one has gone through these boxes and picked through them".
For those boxes without a FASC designation, Steve and Team will wrap the box to authenticate the packs as being sealed from the factory, however, they are not making any claims on those packs being original to the box.
For that matter, we have seen examples on the board where people have assembled individual packs into a box, sent it to BBCE, and had it wrapped as a box - even though those packs did not come from the box being wrapped. Not that there is anything wrong with that mind you.
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To an extent, you can tell if a pack has been swapped by distribution of ad variations and consistency of wrapping, but no one will label it as such.
<< <i>I would assume any box not labeled FASC from BBCE has been cherry picked. Not that it's always the case, but it sets expectations appropriately.
To an extent, you can tell if a pack has been swapped by distribution of ad variations and consistency of wrapping, but no one will label it as such. >>
I would assume this as well, but I will say that the only BBCE wrapped box I've bought off of eBay was clearly the result of someone cherry picking star-showing and potential star-containing racks and then putting them in one box and having them wrapped by BBCE. Link Box contained a mix of 48- and 51-card packs. So it can work both ways.
simply "thus hasn't been messed with". It means that it is verifiably untouched since it left the factory. "Has not
been messed with" or "equivalent to what would have been received from the factory" created a valid
concern amongst some purists and BBCE chose to resolve the potential ambiguity conservatively (i.e. FASC =
verifiably untouched since it left the factory"
As for other BBCE sealed boxes, unless there is a pack collation (like 86 Fleer BKB) there is no way to tell what
may or may not be completely original. Provenance may give some indications about this for any particular piece
but it is never going to be 100% like opening up a factory case.
Dave
For anything post 1982 - 1983, I think it is safe to assume the packs were not cherry picked.
Is it really worth opening these packs to find what most likely is a $3.00 card?
A raw 1983 Gwynn is selling for $3.00 on ebay right now. A 1983 pack goes for about $5.00.
Packs that have been looked at by BBCE are probably safe.
<< <i>I was thinking about this last night. I encourage to someone correct me if I am wrong with a reason why the logic is flawed.
For anything post 1982 - 1983, I think it is safe to assume the packs were not cherry picked.
Is it really worth opening these packs to find what most likely is a $3.00 card?
A raw 1983 Gwynn is selling for $3.00 on ebay right now. A 1983 pack goes for about $5.00.
Packs that have been looked at by BBCE are probably safe. >>
I don't think this discussion is in regards to opening the packs, just removing any packs with stars showing to sell individually for a premium and replacing them with others before selling an 'unopened' box. The flaw I see with your logic is it's only taking into account current values, for example there was a time when raw 85T McGwires were selling for $100.
<< <i>
<< <i>I was thinking about this last night. I encourage to someone correct me if I am wrong with a reason why the logic is flawed.
For anything post 1982 - 1983, I think it is safe to assume the packs were not cherry picked.
Is it really worth opening these packs to find what most likely is a $3.00 card?
A raw 1983 Gwynn is selling for $3.00 on ebay right now. A 1983 pack goes for about $5.00.
Packs that have been looked at by BBCE are probably safe. >>
I don't think this discussion is in regards to opening the packs, just removing any packs with stars showing to sell individually for a premium and replacing them with others before selling an 'unopened' box. The flaw I see with your logic is it's only taking into account current values, for example there was a time when raw 85T McGwires were selling for $100. >>
I sold a 85 T McGwire raw for $175 in 1998. Very possible that 85's (and others ) have been cherry picked
<< <i>I sold a 85 T McGwire raw for $175 in 1998. Very possible that 85's (and others ) have been cherry picked
Guess I should have said $100+
<< <i>
<< <i>I sold a 85 T McGwire raw for $175 in 1998. Very possible that 85's (and others ) have been cherry picked
Guess I should have said $100+
I miss the good old days of sales like that
<< <i>Good points guys. I guess there is no way to truly know if a box has been searched. I bought my 87 Fleer basketball box on Eaby and when I got it before I sent to steve to authenticate I asked him about the seller and he said he would trust him. When i got the box It had a Jordan #57 showing thru one of the packs so I know that I had a good box. >>
Dustin, was it an 87 box or an 86 box??? You say Jordan #57 was showing through and in the 87 set he was #59; in the 86 set he was #57.