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1980 Topps Bird/Magic PSA 10

One day auction, recently listed.

Not my card, but I'm interested to see what this goes for. Not the best looking 10.

image
Matt

«13

Comments

  • Dpeck100Dpeck100 Posts: 10,910 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Slab detectives please let us know if this is real. I could believe this card was inserted in a 10's place. Corners are really iffy for a 10 and the centering appears off to me. Also the surface on the Bird strip looks problematic.



  • shagrotn77shagrotn77 Posts: 5,562 ✭✭✭✭
    The font on the flip does not look right to me. The card also does not look like a 10. While the seller appears to be legit, I question why a card of this magnitude would be listed for only one day. I've searched VCP and the set registry to see if I could find another 10 with the same cert #, but no luck thus far.
    "My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
  • addicted2ebayaddicted2ebay Posts: 2,092 ✭✭✭✭
    Who knows....a 20k card on a one day auction seems strange. I'd pass.
  • itzagoneritzagoner Posts: 8,753 ✭✭
    fake flip. next?
  • bobbyw8469bobbyw8469 Posts: 7,139 ✭✭✭


    << <i>fake flip. next? >>



    Agreed. I don't like the spacing on some of the letters.
  • SidePocketSidePocket Posts: 2,901 ✭✭✭
    Yuck.

    "Molon Labe"

  • bobbyw8469bobbyw8469 Posts: 7,139 ✭✭✭


    << <i>fake flip. next? >>



    Agreed. I don't like the spacing in the some of the words.
  • If you're going to worry about fake cards, this is a good one to worry about.
  • bobbyw8469bobbyw8469 Posts: 7,139 ✭✭✭
    You should ALWAYS be alert.
  • LittletweedLittletweed Posts: 623 ✭✭✭
    Slab does not look good

    image
    Matt

  • JBrulesJBrules Posts: 2,116 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I am certainly no expert on card grading but my 2 cents is it is a fake flip. Corner damage and overall look of the card. Also who would do a 1 day auction on a PSA 10 Bird/Magic rookie if it was legit? If you go to the link and zoom in on the back of card you can see the fraying of a couple of the corners.
  • packCollectorpackCollector Posts: 2,786 ✭✭✭
    Curious how all the geniuses have determined that the flip is fake and the holder is bad? the seller is highly respected, I have dealt with the seller many times and is nothing but legit. unless the account was hacked , the seller is not selling fake cards. looks like a crappy 10 but I can't see how anyone has determined that it is completely faked. please enlighten me how the conclusions have been drawn .....
  • DM23HOFDM23HOF Posts: 2,113 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ew. Just...ew.

    Instagram: mattyc_collection

  • MrNearMintMrNearMint Posts: 1,209 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Curious how all the geniuses have determined that the flip is fake and the holder is bad? the seller is highly respected, I have dealt with the seller many times and is nothing but legit. unless the account was hacked , the seller is not selling fake cards. looks like a crappy 10 but I can't see how anyone has determined that it is completely faked. please enlighten me how the conclusions have been drawn ..... >>









    +1
  • itzagoneritzagoner Posts: 8,753 ✭✭


    << <i>Curious how all the geniuses have determined that the flip is fake and the holder is bad? the seller is highly respected, I have dealt with the seller many times and is nothing but legit. unless the account was hacked , the seller is not selling fake cards. looks like a crappy 10 but I can't see how anyone has determined that it is completely faked. please enlighten me how the conclusions have been drawn ..... >>



    first of all, your highly respected seller has sold how many cards this past year? it's not out of the realm of possibilities that this person took on a consignment from someone else who was duped into buying this card and now wants retribution in the form of a quick sale. don't you find it foolish that a highly respected seller would throw away a mega-bomb of a card in a one-day auction? please re-examine your allegiance. then, take a real good look at the space in the serial number between 6 and 5. also, the 2 is crooked. it's a crappy job. maybe you should be the one to report this and save the collecting world from another jab in the throat.
  • dgordodgordo Posts: 123 ✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Curious how all the geniuses have determined that the flip is fake and the holder is bad? the seller is highly respected, I have dealt with the seller many times and is nothing but legit. unless the account was hacked , the seller is not selling fake cards. looks like a crappy 10 but I can't see how anyone has determined that it is completely faked. please enlighten me how the conclusions have been drawn ..... >>



    first of all, your highly respected seller has sold how many cards this past year? it's not out of the realm of possibilities that this person took on a consignment from someone else who was duped into buying this card and now wants retribution in the form of a quick sale. don't you find it foolish that a highly respected seller would throw away a mega-bomb of a card in a one-day auction? please re-examine your allegiance. then, take a real good look at the space in the serial number between 6 and 5. also, the 2 is crooked. it's a crappy job. maybe you should be the one to report this and save the collecting world from another jab in the throat. >>



    The pp in topps are too close together and the comma placement between Ervin and Johnson don't match what I'm seeing from other examples on vcp.

    http://myworld.ebay.com/dgordo76

    My current wish list:

    https://forums.collectors.com/messageview.aspx?catid=27&threadid=952285&enterthread=y

    Please pm me if you want to sell any of these cards.

    Thanks!

  • itzagoneritzagoner Posts: 8,753 ✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>Curious how all the geniuses have determined that the flip is fake and the holder is bad? the seller is highly respected, I have dealt with the seller many times and is nothing but legit. unless the account was hacked , the seller is not selling fake cards. looks like a crappy 10 but I can't see how anyone has determined that it is completely faked. please enlighten me how the conclusions have been drawn ..... >>



    first of all, your highly respected seller has sold how many cards this past year? it's not out of the realm of possibilities that this person took on a consignment from someone else who was duped into buying this card and now wants retribution in the form of a quick sale. don't you find it foolish that a highly respected seller would throw away a mega-bomb of a card in a one-day auction? please re-examine your allegiance. then, take a real good look at the space in the serial number between 6 and 5. also, the 2 is crooked. it's a crappy job. maybe you should be the one to report this and save the collecting world from another jab in the throat. >>



    The pp in topps are too close together and the comma placement between Ervin and Johnson don't match what I'm seeing from other examples on vcp. >>



    indeed. font flaws galore. i only pointed out the serial number flaws because it's the first thing i look at when making such an assumption.
  • LittletweedLittletweed Posts: 623 ✭✭✭
    Here's another one graded around the same time to compare:

    image

    image
    Matt

  • slum22slum22 Posts: 2,593 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Here's another one graded around the same time to compare:

    I'll take the one on top. I am no expert on fake flips, so I will stay off that topic. That card does not deserve to be in a 10 holder IMO. I hope that everything is on the up and up for the sake of whoever buys this card.
    Steve
  • packCollectorpackCollector Posts: 2,786 ✭✭✭
    I have no allegiance , i just get annoyed that everything shows up is a scam. there are so many ugly 10's out there maybe the first conclusion should be it is a fugly card as opposed to a scam if the card is not the prettiest 10. show me some proof. i look at your examples and I still don't see it. i have looked at a lot of my legit cards that I have submitted and nothing is out of the ordinary compared to what I see on legit cards.

    why is it crazy to think that someone overextended themselves in an auction and need quick cash. isn't that the point of graded cards? they are very liquid. not saying it is the case but it is completely logical that someone blew a wad of cash in the last few days with an auction house and needs quick cash. I know I blew a lot more than I was planning.

    the seller has 100% feedback selling many high $ items but immediately it is assumed he is a scam and selling fake cards/slabs, doesn't ad up ........

  • mlbfan2mlbfan2 Posts: 3,115 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I have no allegiance , i just get annoyed that everything shows up is a scam. there are so many ugly 10's out there maybe the first conclusion should be it is a fugly card as opposed to a scam if the card is not the prettiest 10. show me some proof. i look at your examples and I still don't see it. i have looked at a lot of my legit cards that I have submitted and nothing is out of the ordinary compared to what I see on legit cards.

    why is it crazy to think that someone overextended themselves in an auction and need quick cash. isn't that the point of graded cards? they are very liquid. not saying it is the case but it is completely logical that someone blew a wad of cash in the last few days with an auction house and needs quick cash. I know I blew a lot more than I was planning.

    the seller has 100% feedback selling many high $ items but immediately it is assumed he is a scam and selling fake cards/slabs, doesn't ad up ........ >>



    Proof? It's really hard to prove since all we have is a photo. Even PSA might not even be able to prove it's fake without having it in hand. Can you prove that it's real? A 1 day auction (especially since the seller doesn't seem to normally use 1 day auctions) is a red flag, and the bad looking flip is a huge red flag.

    Weren't we right recently when we figured that the PSA 10 Montana was fake?
  • itzagoneritzagoner Posts: 8,753 ✭✭
    packCollector, you've got things a little twisted around here.....it's not that everything shows up as a scam, it's only a matter of presenting one of the seemingly endless examples of cards which are incapable of rising above suspicion. there's nothing wrong with questioning or doubting when so much money is at stake. this forum has plenty of people who can do that.
  • dgordodgordo Posts: 123 ✭✭
    .

    http://myworld.ebay.com/dgordo76

    My current wish list:

    https://forums.collectors.com/messageview.aspx?catid=27&threadid=952285&enterthread=y

    Please pm me if you want to sell any of these cards.

    Thanks!

  • mikelowell25mikelowell25 Posts: 1,252 ✭✭✭
    Posting only because I can't see any of the last few posts, or nothing past page 1image
  • grote15grote15 Posts: 29,479 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Posting only because I can't see any of the last few posts, or nothing past page 1image >>



    Just type page # in at end of URL and it will bring you to next page till it turns..


    Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
  • dgordodgordo Posts: 123 ✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>I have no allegiance , i just get annoyed that everything shows up is a scam. there are so many ugly 10's out there maybe the first conclusion should be it is a fugly card as opposed to a scam if the card is not the prettiest 10. show me some proof. i look at your examples and I still don't see it. i have looked at a lot of my legit cards that I have submitted and nothing is out of the ordinary compared to what I see on legit cards.

    why is it crazy to think that someone overextended themselves in an auction and need quick cash. isn't that the point of graded cards? they are very liquid. not saying it is the case but it is completely logical that someone blew a wad of cash in the last few days with an auction house and needs quick cash. I know I blew a lot more than I was planning.

    the seller has 100% feedback selling many high $ items but immediately it is assumed he is a scam and selling fake cards/slabs, doesn't ad up ........ >>



    Proof? It's really hard to prove since all we have is a photo. Even PSA might not even be able to prove it's fake without having it in hand. Can you prove that it's real? A 1 day auction (especially since the seller doesn't seem to normally use 1 day auctions) is a red flag, and the bad looking flip is a huge red flag.

    Weren't we right recently when we figured that the PSA 10 Montana was fake? >>



    Yes the Montana was a fake. I bought that card from someone with 100% feedback that I had bought from before. Unfortunately that's not any guarantee. The flip has many if the same issues I later found in the fake Montana flip.

    http://myworld.ebay.com/dgordo76

    My current wish list:

    https://forums.collectors.com/messageview.aspx?catid=27&threadid=952285&enterthread=y

    Please pm me if you want to sell any of these cards.

    Thanks!

  • StingrayStingray Posts: 8,843 ✭✭✭
    Don't like the slight tilt on it!!
  • jackstrawjackstraw Posts: 3,748 ✭✭✭
    Can someone explain to me why someone would auction off a possible 20,000 card and not scan it better?
    Cards like this should have some sort security attached to it when looking it up. It should be more than just
    Someone scoring the cert number and getting crafty.
    Collector Focus

    ON ITS WAY TO NEWPORT BEACH, CA 92658
  • thunderdanthunderdan Posts: 3,036 ✭✭✭
    The font on the flip doesn't look right. But if that doesn't turn you away, the card itself takes care of the rest. Tilted, questionable corners, etc. I wouldn't even consider touching this card, even though it's one that I've wanted for a long time.
    image


  • Dpeck100Dpeck100 Posts: 10,910 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The reputable seller argument carries very little weight. Rick Probstein is certainly one and the fake 1993 SP Jeter PSA 10 showed up in his auctions. There was also a great seller in the past year or so that had like 12,000+ feedback with a fake Mantle.

    It is online commerce. You can't rule out anything.
  • shagrotn77shagrotn77 Posts: 5,562 ✭✭✭✭
    Has anyone reached out to the seller?
    "My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
  • itzagoneritzagoner Posts: 8,753 ✭✭
    the 7 people who bid on that thing?
  • dgordodgordo Posts: 123 ✭✭


    << <i>the 7 people who bid on that thing? >>



    I messaged him asking for a picture of the flip with a light shining through it.

    http://myworld.ebay.com/dgordo76

    My current wish list:

    https://forums.collectors.com/messageview.aspx?catid=27&threadid=952285&enterthread=y

    Please pm me if you want to sell any of these cards.

    Thanks!

  • itzagoneritzagoner Posts: 8,753 ✭✭
    heeeeeere's Johnny!

    same seller.
  • ergoismergoism Posts: 315 ✭✭✭
    This is a fake. The picture posted from the buynicecards sale is also a fake flip. The guy selling this card likely got scammed and is trying to dump the card. PSA will hopefully have this auction pulled before it closes.
  • gregmo32gregmo32 Posts: 2,648 ✭✭✭
    I did reach out to the seller to ask him about the card. I was 99% sure the card was a fake, but had no idea whether the seller knew it.

    I only asked him how long he had owned the card, if he had it graded himself, etc. Because, of course, his answer to those questions will likely shed more light on what we are dealing with here. He has not responded as of yet.
    I am buying and trading for RC's of Wilt Chamberlain, George Mikan, Bill Russell, Oscar Robertson, Jerry West, and Bob Cousy!
    Don't waste your time and fees listing on ebay before getting in touch me by PM or at gregmo32@aol.com !
  • gregmo32gregmo32 Posts: 2,648 ✭✭✭
    Here is the seller's response to my inquiry.

    "We bought the card locally from a large collection. If you check our feedback, you'll see some of the positive feedback from others from cards in the same collection. We didn't personally have it graded, and honestly I don't trust graders as far as I can throw them. What you see is what you get. Thanks for your interest."

    I responded with the following.

    "Dear cardscoinscomics,

    I'm sorry to hear that you recently purchased the card , because there is every indication that the PSA holder has been faked. If you are able to contact the person who sold it to you I would do so immediately . Selling the card on eBay will likely lead to a lot of difficulty once the buyer has it in their hand .
    Again , I wish the card were genuine because I would be a buyer .

    - gregmo32"
    I am buying and trading for RC's of Wilt Chamberlain, George Mikan, Bill Russell, Oscar Robertson, Jerry West, and Bob Cousy!
    Don't waste your time and fees listing on ebay before getting in touch me by PM or at gregmo32@aol.com !
  • itzagoneritzagoner Posts: 8,753 ✭✭


    << <i>".....and honestly I don't trust graders as far as I can throw them." >>



    lol @ at the use of the word 'honestly'.

    Greg, check back with this guy and find out if his mistrust is limited to only PSA graders, or does it also include the PCGS & Beckett graders, whose opinions he's sold off as well.

    there seems to be a more prevalent history with Magic The Gathering.....Magic Johnson, not so much.
  • dgordodgordo Posts: 123 ✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>the 7 people who bid on that thing? >>



    I messaged him asking for a picture of the flip with a light shining through it. >>



    He has not responded to me.

    http://myworld.ebay.com/dgordo76

    My current wish list:

    https://forums.collectors.com/messageview.aspx?catid=27&threadid=952285&enterthread=y

    Please pm me if you want to sell any of these cards.

    Thanks!

  • shagrotn77shagrotn77 Posts: 5,562 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>The picture posted from the buynicecards sale is also a fake flip. >>



    Good call. I just compared it to the image of the card with the same cert # sold by PWCC in 2012 and the cards are different.
    "My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
  • galaxy27galaxy27 Posts: 7,113 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Abnormal-looking flip aside, I hesitate to wonder if someone with cataracts and on angel dust would even deem that card worthy of gem status.
  • packCollectorpackCollector Posts: 2,786 ✭✭✭


    << <i>there's nothing wrong with questioning or doubting when so much money is at stake. this forum has plenty of people who can do that. >>



    ain't that the truth
  • My opinion - This holder is fake. It's the same Bird Magic PSA 10 serial # that was up for sale by a different seller last August who also was listing a fake Joe Montana PSA 10 and a fake Pujols. I was 100% sure about the Montana he was selling being bad because I owned the same serial # PSA 10 Montana but mine was in the new tamper resistant PSA holder. My guess is the seller from last August passed this along to someone else and eventually to this seller. Real shame. One of the reasons I only will buy higher dollar PSA 10s in the new holders unless I really know the seller.
  • dgordodgordo Posts: 123 ✭✭


    << <i>heeeeeere's Johnny!

    same seller. >>



    That appears to be a fake too, look at his card vs the one sold in 2010.

    image

    image

    http://myworld.ebay.com/dgordo76

    My current wish list:

    https://forums.collectors.com/messageview.aspx?catid=27&threadid=952285&enterthread=y

    Please pm me if you want to sell any of these cards.

    Thanks!

  • packCollectorpackCollector Posts: 2,786 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Weren't we right recently when we figured that the PSA 10 Montana was fake? >>



    no idea and don't really care but good for you guys. How many "fakes" have you figured out that weren't fakes? still don't care but I am sure there are some.

    quite frankly this is psa's job to take care of not the boards. if someone is faking and tainting their product , they should do something
  • itzagoneritzagoner Posts: 8,753 ✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Weren't we right recently when we figured that the PSA 10 Montana was fake? >>



    no idea and don't really care but good for you guys. How many "fakes" have you figured out that weren't fakes? still don't care but I am sure there are some.

    quite frankly this is psa's job to take care of not the boards. if someone is faking and tainting their product , they should do something >>



    yeah. a nationwide door-to-door search and destroy mission oughta do it.

    your guy is stealing money from people. defend that.
  • packCollectorpackCollector Posts: 2,786 ✭✭✭
    he's not my guy so check your facts.

    if people are so easily faking and selling fake psa cards for 5 figures then psa should be doing something not you and yeah since you seem to think the guy has just stolen 20 grand I think it would be easy to lock him up



  • mlbfan2mlbfan2 Posts: 3,115 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Weren't we right recently when we figured that the PSA 10 Montana was fake? >>



    no idea and don't really care but good for you guys. How many "fakes" have you figured out that weren't fakes? still don't care but I am sure there are some.

    quite frankly this is psa's job to take care of not the boards. if someone is faking and tainting their product , they should do something >>



    We're not taking care of it - we're just talking about it. You should thank us for bringing it to PSA's attention. There are 400,000+ PSA cards on ebay, and I doubt PSA has the manpower to examine all of them for possible fakes. People have been posting possible PSA fakes here for years, and PSA doesn't seem to mind. If they do, I'm sure they'll tell us.
  • mlbfan2mlbfan2 Posts: 3,115 ✭✭✭


    << <i>if people are so easily faking and selling fake psa cards for 5 figures then psa should be doing something not you and yeah since you seem to think the guy has just stolen 20 grand I think it would be easy to lock him up >>



    Thanks to some people on this board, less people are "easily faking and selling psa cards for 5 figures".
  • itzagoneritzagoner Posts: 8,753 ✭✭


    << <i>he's not my guy so check your facts. >>



    let me rephrase it then. the "highly respected seller" you choose to defend. how's that.

    the facts are being presented to you right here and now. if you can't see what this forum is attempting to do, then you're in denial.

    the seller in question has been "outted". there's no doubt in my mind that this person is dirty.
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