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Football HOF

Any thoughts here on the inductee possibilities?Seau,Terrell Davis,Kevin Greene,The "Bus",Morten Anderson, Kurt Warner.Coaches Jimmy Johnson in his 16th year,Tony Dungy,among others.I think Warner,Seau get in.
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  • grote15grote15 Posts: 29,477 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Pace should also get in


    Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
  • The all-time leading scorer in NFL history should be in the HOF regardless if he's a kicker or not. I vote for Morten Andersen!
  • eagles33eagles33 Posts: 2,676 ✭✭✭
    I think Warner, pace, seau get in. Anderson deserves it. I would like to see the bus and Davis. Davis's career was cut short but he was the most dominant player at his position when he played. Tacking on another 5 years of 1300 yard seasons wouldn't make him a better candidate IMO. He is the only reason elway has 2 rings. Elway should be lobbying for him to get in
    Scans of most of my Misc rookies can be found <a target=new class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://forums.collectors.com/m...y&keyword1=Non%20major">here
  • WhiteTornadoWhiteTornado Posts: 2,102 ✭✭✭
    I'd give the nod to Bettis over Terrell Davis. Bettis is 6th all time in rushing, with 13,662 yards and scored 91 rushing TDs. As Peter King of SI likes to put it, Davis would be in "Hall of Very Good", but not the HOF. On the contrary, I do think if Davis had a few more 1,000+ yard seasons his candidacy would be bolstered. As it stands, he only has 7,607 yards. He’s behind the likes of Gerald Riggs (8,188), Clinton Portis (9,923), and even Ricky Williams (10,009). I don’t think any of those 3 guys are going into the HOF, even though they had good careers.

    One might compare Davis’ numbers to that of Gayle Sayers, who was all of 34 years old when he was inducted into the HOF in 1977 (still the youngest ever). Sayers had a much lower career total in rushing yards (4,956), but he did have almost as many return yards (4,479), for a total of 9,435 all-purpose yards. Sayers had 56 total TDs to Davis’ 65 total TDs. Sayers had a 5.0 rushing average to Davis’ 4.4 average, although Sayers did it with about 2,500 fewer yards. Sayers holds or is tied for records for most TDs in a rookie season (22 in 1965), most TDs scored in one game (6), and has the highest career kickoff return average (30.6…to compare to a modern player, Devin Hester’s career average is #67 all time at 24.8). On a final note, remember that in Sayers’ day, the regular season was 14 games, not 16.
  • CrazylegsCrazylegs Posts: 406 ✭✭✭
    Seau, Pace, Warner and maybe Anderson.

    Terrell Davis was a very good back in a perfect system. I don't think he is a HOF'er.
    I don't think you can make the Sayers short career comparison because Gale Sayers was also one of the greatest return men in history!

    If you look at the very average backs that led the Broncos in rushing after him, they all had great numbers and
    some even had better yards per carry averages.

    Olandis Gary 1159 4.2 avg., Mike Anderson 1487 5.0 avg., Portis 1508 &1591 5.5 avg. both years and Reuben Droughns
    1240 4.5 avg.

    I'm sure he will get in eventually (2000 yards), but with the shortness of his career and the system, I just don't see it.

    Craig AKA "Crazylegs"
  • WhiteTornadoWhiteTornado Posts: 2,102 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Seau, Pace, Warner and maybe Anderson.

    Terrell Davis was a very good back in a perfect system. I don't think he is a HOF'er.
    I don't think you can make the Sayers short career comparison because Gale Sayers was also one of the greatest return men in history!

    If you look at the very average backs that led the Broncos in rushing after him, they all had great numbers and
    some even had better yards per carry averages.

    Olandis Gary 1159 4.2 avg., Mike Anderson 1487 5.0 avg., Portis 1508 &1591 5.5 avg. both years and Reuben Droughns
    1240 4.5 avg.

    I'm sure he will get in eventually (2000 yards), but with the shortness of his career and the system, I just don't see it. >>



    Oh I agree on Sayers and being one of the greatest (some would say THE greatest) return men ever. I simply brought him up to play devils advocate, in case someone wanted to point out other RBs who are in the Hall with even far fewer rushing yards that Terrell Davis.

    Those are interesting numbers you listed regarding the RBs who succeeded Davis in Denver.
  • Seau, Pace, Bettis, Warner, Andersen, in that order.

    I do think Warner is deserving and I'd vote for him, but I find it interesting that nobody even mentions his Giants years.
  • shagrotn77shagrotn77 Posts: 5,562 ✭✭✭✭
    Seau
    Warner
    Haley
    Bettis
    Dungy
    "My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
  • LarkinCollectorLarkinCollector Posts: 8,975 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Any thoughts here on the inductee possibilities?Seau,Terrell Davis,Kevin Greene,The "Bus",Morten Anderson, Kurt Warner.Coaches Jimmy Johnson in his 16th year,Tony Dungy,among others.I think Warner,Seau get in. >>


    IMHO, it's not a HOF discussion until Skin2 and CeciliaGuante weigh in.


  • << <i>

    << <i>Any thoughts here on the inductee possibilities?Seau,Terrell Davis,Kevin Greene,The "Bus",Morten Anderson, Kurt Warner.Coaches Jimmy Johnson in his 16th year,Tony Dungy,among others.I think Warner,Seau get in. >>



    IMHO, it's not a HOF discussion until Skin2 and CeciliaGuante weigh in. >>



    CG is an alt for a banned member, and resorting to old habits in that thread. History repeating itself.
  • ndleondleo Posts: 4,064 ✭✭✭✭✭
    4 need to get in - Pace, Warner, Seau, and Dungy are locks. And the rest will come from Jimmy Johnson, Tim Brown, Bettis, and Charles Haley. I think Terrell Davis will get in eventually. Those three peak years included 2 Super Bowls, MVP, 2000 yd season, 53 TDs, and 3 All-Pro selections (which is harder than a Pro Bowl). The system argument is flawed since all football player play in some type of "system". The West Coast Offense is a system that produced a lot of Hall of Famers.

    Another TD comparison is Earl Campbell - Short peak, high production. It's Brian Griese's fault that TD had a short career.

    Here is the complete list:

    Morten Andersen, kicker (1982-2004, 2006-2007): Drafted in 1982, Andersen scored more than 90 points in each of 22 seasons and topped 100 points 14 times in his 25-year career. Andersen's best moment might have been a game-winning field goal in overtime to send the Falcons to Super Bowl XXXIII.

    Jerome Bettis, running back (1993-2005): Bettis rushed for 1,000-plus yards eight times and ranked fifth all-time in career rushing yards at the time of his retirement. The running back affectionately known by fans as "The Bus" helped Pittsburgh to a Super Bowl XL title in his hometown of Detroit, Michigan, before riding off into the sunset.

    Tim Brown, wide receiver (1988-2004): The 1987 Heisman Trophy winner spent all but one season in Oakland, setting multiple franchise records and finishing with the second-highest total receiving yards in NFL history at the time of his retirement. Brown finished with 100 receiving touchdowns.

    Don Coryell, head coach (1973-77, 1978-1986): An innovator who introduced a passing system decades ahead of its time, Coryell first brought the St. Louis Cardinals out of the doldrums, going 42-27-1 in five years. The coach then installed his "Air Coryell" offense after taking over the San Diego Chargers in 1978, amassing more than 24,000 passing yards from 1978 to 1983 and capturing three AFC Western Division crowns from 1979 to 1981.

    Terrell Davis, running back (1995-2001): Once taken as an afterthought in a crowded backfield, Davis stormed into the starting lineup and led a ground game that powered the Denver Broncos to back-to-back Super Bowl titles in 1997 and 1998. Davis was a three-time All-Pro selection and 1998 NFL MVP before a knee injury cut his career short. He topped the 2,000-yard plateau in '98.

    Tony Dungy, head coach (1996-2008): Dungy took over a Tampa Bay Buccaneers franchise known only for perennial failure in 1996 and ushered in a turnaround that culminated in Tampa Bay's Super Bowl XXXVII victory a year after his departure. No matter for the coach, who moved on to Indianapolis, where he won Super Bowl XLI and finished with a career regular-season record of 139-69.

    Kevin Greene, defensive end/linebacker (1985-1999): A two-time All-Pro, the former Ram posted double-digit sack totals 10 times. A member of the NFL's All-Decade Team of 1990s, he currently ranks third among all-time sack leaders with 160.

    Charles Haley, defensive end/linebacker (1986-1996; 1999): Haley is the only player in NFL history to play on five winning Super Bowl teams, earning rings with the Cowboys and 49ers. He has 100-plus sacks for his career.

    Marvin Harrison, wide receiver (1996-2008): Teaming with Peyton Manning, Harrison posted eight consecutive 1,000-plus yard seasons with 10 or more touchdowns. A three-time All-Pro, he shattered the record for receptions in a single season with 143 in 2002. He was a member of the Colts team that won Super Bowl XLI.

    Jimmy Johnson, coach (1989-1993, 1996-1999): Johnson left the college ranks to take over the downtrodden Cowboys in 1989 and lead a turnaround that included two Super bowl titles in five seasons. After leaving Dallas, Johnson returned to the league in 1996 as head coach of the Miami Dolphins, and led the team to playoff berths in his final three seasons on the sideline.

    John Lynch, safety (1993-2007): Lynch was an integral member of a historically great defense that led the 2002 Bucs to a Super Bowl title. A two-time All-Pro, he racked up over 1,000 tackles during his 15-year career.

    * Orlando Pace, offensive tackle (1997-2009): The longtime St. Louis Ram earned three All-Pro nods and led an offensive line that blocked for three straight NFL MVPs. A member of the team that won Super Bowl XXXIV, he was one of the dominant tackles of his generation.

    Bill Polian, contributor (1978-1982, 1984-2011): Polian spent more than three decades helping build franchises into dominant playoff teams, resulting in five Super Bowl appearances between the Buffalo Bills and Indianapolis Colts. Polian was also at the helm of the expansion Carolina Panthers, building a roster that made it to the NFC Championship in the franchise's second year of existence.


    * Junior Seau, linebacker (1990-2009): Seau led the San Diego Chargers to their lone Super Bowl appearance in franchise history. A six time All-Pro, no other defender played in more seasons (20) than Seau.

    Will Shields, guard (1993-2006): Shields was the definition of durability, playing 224 straight games from his rookie season until his retirement in 2006. The longtime Chiefs lineman was named first-team All-Pro three times, during which he blocked for an NFL-best scoring offense featuring running back Priest Holmes in 2002 and 2003.

    Mick Tingelhoff, center (1962-1978): Signed as a free agent out of Nebraska in 1962, Tingelhoff earned the starting center position as a rookie and never relinquished it. The durable, five-time All-Pro Tingelhoff anchored a Vikings offensive line that helped win 10 division titles from 1968 to 1978 and appeared in four Super Bowls. He's the lone senior finalist for the Class of 2015.

    * Kurt Warner, quarterback (1998-2009): A two-time NFL MVP, Warner led the Rams to their only Super Bowl championship in franchise history. He then led the Arizona Cardinals to their lone Super Bowl appearance, totaling three Super Bowl games for the two-time All-Pro. Warner entered the league as an undrafted free agent and owns the three highest passing yardage totals in Super Bowl history.

    Ron Wolf, contributor (1963-1974, 1976-2001): Starting as a scout for Oakland in 1963, Wolf made a lasting mark as player personnel director, building Raiders teams that won nine division titles and appeared in three Super Bowls. Wolf later moved on to Green Bay, where he assembled a roster that claimed three straight NFC Central division titles and won Super Bowl XXXI. He's viewed as one of the best talent evaluators in NFL history.
    Mike
  • WhiteTornadoWhiteTornado Posts: 2,102 ✭✭✭
    I lived in Tampa during John Lynch's time with the Bucs. Very good player and fun to watch, but I'm not sure he is HOF material. Yet another for the Hall of Very Good.

    I didn't realize Don "Air" Coryell was up for induction. He was an innovator, seems worthy of being inducted.
  • eagles33eagles33 Posts: 2,676 ✭✭✭
    i would love to see warner get inducted as an iowa barnstormer. since the HOF isnt the NFL HOF.. i always wanted to see someone choose a USFL or other pro football league when they got inducted.. obviously it wont happen.. Hershel Walkers 2400 single season rushing yards as a General should be mentioned in the HOF.. ha
    Scans of most of my Misc rookies can be found <a target=new class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://forums.collectors.com/m...y&keyword1=Non%20major">here
  • eagles33eagles33 Posts: 2,676 ✭✭✭
    I don't the Davis will get in. Maybe eventually but not anytime soon. Personally i think he deserves it. He was so dominate before he got hurt. There are a lot of guys that had way more career yards but never came close to having 3 such dominate years as he did. Curtis martin comes to mind as someon who was very good for a long time.. but i dont ever remember him being really great like davis was.
    Scans of most of my Misc rookies can be found <a target=new class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://forums.collectors.com/m...y&keyword1=Non%20major">here
  • seebelowseebelow Posts: 1,643 ✭✭✭
    I enjoyed watching Lycnh play. Good guy. But after watching a special based solely on him and looking more closely, I dont think he has the HOF qualifications.
    Playing with Brooks and Sapp on defense def helped him.

    I think it's Bettis, Seau and dungys year.
    Interested in higher grade vintage cards. Aren't we all. image
  • Bear48Bear48 Posts: 239 ✭✭✭
    JUNIOR SEAU
    TIM BROWN
    WILL SHIELDS
    ORLANDO PACE
    CHARLES HAYLEY
  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 29,339 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Any thoughts here on the inductee possibilities?Seau,Terrell Davis,Kevin Greene,The "Bus",Morten Anderson, Kurt Warner.Coaches Jimmy Johnson in his 16th year,Tony Dungy,among others.I think Warner,Seau get in. >>


    IMHO, it's not a HOF discussion until Skin2 and CeciliaGuante weigh in. >>




    Its not official NFL HOF chat until JasP24 gets involved
  • Seau
    Pace
    Warner
    Tingelhoff
    Greene
    Polian
    Wolf
    Brown or Harrison
  • seebelowseebelow Posts: 1,643 ✭✭✭
    Is Warner really a lock this year? Someone mentioned he is. Hmm. Nice guy and def eventually.
    Interested in higher grade vintage cards. Aren't we all. image
  • shagrotn77shagrotn77 Posts: 5,562 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Is Warner really a lock this year? Someone mentioned he is. Hmm. Nice guy and def eventually. >>



    Stone cold lock.
    "My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
  • JasP24JasP24 Posts: 4,645 ✭✭✭
    When attempting to predict HOF classes with any accuracy, you should always look at previous years of voting.

    These players made the cut to the final 10 last year, meaning they got the most votes of anyone who did not get elected:

    Marvin Harrison
    Jerome Bettis
    Will Shields
    Charles Haley
    Kevin Greene

    So what you may ask? Well, much like the Baseball HOF, the voting (outside of first ballot locks) tends to be a process. That being said, lets look at the odds of these 5 getting in this season.

    Marvin Harrison...Last year was his first ballot and he made the cut to 10. Looking at past votes, that typically means he will be inducted this year. Recent examples of this? Michael Strahan, Curtis Martin, Willie Roaf, John Randle...Shannon Sharpe the recent example of someone who made the cut to 10 in his first year who did NOT make the HOF the folliwng year. He made it in his 3rd year. With T.O., Hines Ward and Randy Moss all coming eligible in the next 3 classes, and Tim Brown still in line behind Harrison (Brown finished 11-15 last year in the voting) my prediction is that Harrison is near certain to go in this year.

    Jerome Bettis...Has finished in the top 10 the last 2 years, and should be in that zone again this year. He's been well ahead of Terrell Davis in the voting, with Davis really only making the top 15 for the first time due to the HOF changing their rules and making a separate category for contributors this year. I give Bettis about a 50/50 this year due to the strength of the first ballot finalists. But would be shocked to see Davis get more votes all of a sudden.

    Will Shields...Shields made the cut to 10 for the first time last year, but with recent O-Linemen like Walter Jones, Larry Allen, Jon Ogden all going in before him (rightly so) he's got a tough road...Again this year, he's got Pace on the ballot, who most likely will get more votes. Shields is a bit of a long shot this year, and will be on the borderline of finishing 10-11 in the initial voting.

    Charles Haley..Along with Tim Brown, the longest wait so far. Haley has made the top 10 the last 3 years in a row just outside of making the top 5. I think he's got a descent shot this year. But with a possible 3 first ballot guys, and one already being a defensive guy, tough to say he's going to make it. Personally I think Haley gets in this year, but most likely will come down to 2 of these 3 making it: Warner, Pace, Haley...If I were a betting man, I'd bet on Warner and Haley, but Pace seems to be getting pretty big push from guys he played against.

    Kevin Greene...Last year was Greene's first in the top 10. Would seem he is behind Charles Haley as a pass rusher, and I don't see the committee putting 3 defensive players and 2 of them pass rushers this year. He may slip back to the 11-15 group, but will make the Hall in the next few..After Haley of course.

    Just something to think about....The last time we didn't have a MINIMUM of 2 players get elected from the previous years 6-10 was 2006. That year, 3 first ballot guys went in (Aikman, Moon, Reggie White) and it was also when the HOF only allowed 4 modern players vs. the current 5 they allow. So history says we should see at least 2 from this group going in. I will go with Harrison and Haley, but anyone of them could make it and will make it before any other Non-1st ballot types.

    Jason
    I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit,
    according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
  • ndleondleo Posts: 4,064 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Is Warner really a lock this year? Someone mentioned he is. Hmm. Nice guy and def eventually. >>



    Warner had 6 good years, 3 of which lead to the Super Bowl. Being in the media also helps him.

    He is like the Gale Sayers of QBs.
    Mike


  • << <i>

    << <i>Is Warner really a lock this year? Someone mentioned he is. Hmm. Nice guy and def eventually. >>



    Warner had 6 good years, 3 of which lead to the Super Bowl. Being in the media also helps him. >>



    Don't tell me we're looking at an Eli Manning induction someday! image
  • JasP24JasP24 Posts: 4,645 ✭✭✭
    Lets not forget, Kurt Warner is a 2 Time MVP of the league. Every other 2+ time MVP who is/was HOF eligible is already in the Hall. When was Eli the League MVP?

    There are some scenarios that say Warner might not go in this year but Id say his odds are north of 90%.

    Jason
    I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit,
    according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.


  • << <i>Seau, Pace, Bettis, Warner, Andersen, in that order. >>



    After further consideration, I would include Harrison instead of Morten Andersen, though I do think Mort deserves to eventually get in. I also think Tim Brown and Haley are deserving eventually too.
  • JasP24JasP24 Posts: 4,645 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Seau, Pace, Bettis, Warner, Andersen, in that order. >>



    After further consideration, I would include Harrison instead of Morten Andersen, though I do think Mort deserves to eventually get in. I also think Tim Brown and Haley are deserving eventually too. >>



    I believe all 3 will get in at some point. 2016 and 2017 are relatively weak years for first ballot eligible guys and should help catch up on some of the more deserving guys who haven't been able to crack the top 5 yet.
    I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit,
    according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
  • Bear48Bear48 Posts: 239 ✭✭✭
    4 for 5, much better than I thought I'd do

    JUNIOR SEAU
    TIM BROWN
    WILL SHIELDS
    ORLANDO PACE
    CHARLES HAYLEY

    The Bettis choice (instead of Pace) is understandable. Junior Seau was a slam dunk, and I'm glad that Brown, Shields, and Hayley are finally in.

    I am not surprised that Warner will have to wait another year.

    Locks for 2016: Pace, Warner and Favre.







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