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Heritage auctions Michael Jordan BGS 10 fleer rookie

I say this card will sell for over $200,000.
With Jordan being ridiculously popular worldwide including Europe and Asia I see some foreign
Investors bidding on this card.
With only 5 BGS 10 fleer Jordan rookies, this compares to only 3 52 mantle Psa 10's.
I think the big pockets will go after this Jordan aggressively.
Jordan and Mantle cards are skyrocketing!
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Comments

  • bobbyw8469bobbyw8469 Posts: 7,139 ✭✭✭
    Good luck with your consignment.
  • ergoismergoism Posts: 315 ✭✭✭
    The only way this card reaches 75k would be if it was shilled it to that. 200k would never happen. The POP 1 Bird/Magic "sold" for over 60k on SCP not long ago and then showed up on eBay finishing barely over half of that.
    Like Bobby said, good luck on your consignment. It would be great if you could recoup half of what you paid.
  • addicted2ebayaddicted2ebay Posts: 2,092 ✭✭✭✭
    Snipe set.image
  • CDsNutsCDsNuts Posts: 10,092
    With only 5 BGS 10 fleer Jordan rookies, this compares to only 3 52 mantle Psa 10's.

    Yeah, except the Mantle was printed in 1952 with significantly worse technology, the overall supply is about 1% of the '86 Fleer Jordan, and a raw Jordan sells for about 1% of what a raw Mantle does in the same grade. Besides that it's a perfect comparison.

    No chance this card reaches $200k, as Evan said $75k would be a gift.

    Lee
  • mrmint23mrmint23 Posts: 2,249 ✭✭✭
    Leaf had a BGS 10 at the National for 100k....He still has it and would take 100k in a heartbeat.
  • Not my consignment. Wish it was my consignmentimage lots of demand for this rare card so we"ll see.
    Don't forget that heritage attracts lots of buyers worldwide and has great marketing.
    194 Psa 10's of this card versus a meager 5 BGS 10's. How often does a BGS 10 come up for sale?
    One of these Jordan BGS 10's sold for $100,000 in memory lane I own it now 3.5 years ago and one for reportedly $200,000 a few years back privately.
    Jordan rookie is the most iconic card in basketball. Much more popular than the bird magic rookie.
  • The allure of the BGS 10 Pristine has long worn off. I don't think this hits $100k under any circumstances. Great points regarding the Mantle comparison. While iconic in it's own right, it's just not a '52 Topps Mantle. Still a stunning card though, just don't see the added value over a flawless PSA 10.
  • If 2 people with deep pockets fight for this card and want the best of the best for bragging rights, the price of this Jordan could skyrocket.
  • Totally agree most of the lure of BGS 10's has worn off due mainly to perception of allowance for sheet cut cards. I'll take the under on $100k on the Jordan.

    That said, I spent a fun hour or so going through the Heritage catalogue yesterday morning- some REALLY cool stuff! One particular football card has my attention - hope that one comes home to daddy image

    Will be fun to watch (and participate)
  • Collectors like rarity, and there are only 5 of these BGS 10's out of 7,400 submissions which is .0007%.
    Just saying collectors like rarity so they have bragging rights and this card is a rarity.
  • itzagoneritzagoner Posts: 8,753 ✭✭
    so what you're saying is it's a rarity and the rarity of a rarity is what makes the collectors go scarity?
  • CDsNutsCDsNuts Posts: 10,092
    hilarity.
  • KendallCatKendallCat Posts: 2,966 ✭✭✭✭✭
    So you are saying you own a BGS 10 with your comment about I owned one 3.5 years? While it is a rarity there is also a chance for more BGS 10's down the road due to people (A) cracking a PSA 10 card and submitting it to BGS (B) raw examples out there that have not been graded, and (C) unopened packs and boxes still out there that can be submitted. Neither of these factors apply to a 52 Mantle except maybe some raw versions that have never made it to grading, and I would venture to say that anyone these days that owns a 52 Mantle has probably heard of PSA.

    While the Jordan card is outstanding in a 10 the Mantle could be considered the card that drives the hobby. What would a Jordan PSA 1 bring? Consider a Mantle in the same grade which is one of the easiest cards to sell in talking with several large national dealers. For $3000-5000 you can own an authentic Mantle rookie. I shudder to think what one of the 3 10's would bring - might see 7 figures. Marshall owns 1 of them and who owns the other two - Branca and maybe someone else?
  • WhiteTornadoWhiteTornado Posts: 2,102 ✭✭✭
    I have no idea where this ends up, but here is the link
  • Kendallcat,
    One of the Jordan BGS 10 fleer rookies sold for $100,000 in "memory lane's I own it now sale" 3.5 years ago.
    I don't know who else owns a 52 mantle Psa 10.
  • AlbertdiditAlbertdidit Posts: 560 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Collectors like rarity, and there are only 5 of these BGS 10's out of 7,400 submissions which is .0007%. >>



    Have to say that is a pretty amazing stat

  • DM23HOFDM23HOF Posts: 2,113 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Collectors like rarity, and there are only 5 of these BGS 10's out of 7,400 submissions which is .0007%.
    Just saying collectors like rarity so they have bragging rights and this card is a rarity. >>



    Just one man's opinion, and let me preface this opinion by saying whatever floats one's boat, collect what you love, one can spend their own money however they want. I'd also like to preface this by saying that if someone is dispassionately buying the card to speculate as a sheer flip/investment, that's another thing entirely as well.

    I think you are 100% right about the "bragging rights" aspect driving the price of this card. To my mind, the BGS 10 Jordan at 200k (or even much less for that matter) is one of the silliest buys-- and I'd agree, a purely ego driven one-- that I could think of. If I had a billion dollars, I still would not buy that card for 200k.

    The BGS 10 Jordan certainly does have rarity going for it-- but what type of rarity? It's an extreme case of condition rarity. A manufactured rarity to help a company advance its brand. It is not true rarity, like that of a card with around 100 or far less examples across all grades in all grading companies. That's an important distinction, and one that is often overlooked.

    Lee said it brilliantly above and it's worth quoting: "Yeah, except the Mantle was printed in 1952 with significantly worse technology, the overall supply is about 1% of the '86 Fleer Jordan, and a raw Jordan sells for about 1% of what a raw Mantle does in the same grade. Besides that it's a perfect comparison." Setting aside condition rarity, from a true rarity perspective, the Mantle has far fewer examples extant than the Jordan. Of course both are awesome cards; we collectors love them both very much. The Jordan in question is also a beautiful card, one that certainly looks as good as any out there.

    But if one wants a perfect condition Jordan Fleer rookie card, one can definitely be found in a BGS 9.5 holder with some 10 subs, a PSA 10 holder, or an SGC 98 holder. Just shop for the CARD if the card in perfect state is what's desired. The difference-- if any even exists-- between the BGS 10 and the best GEM MT examples in BGS, PSA, and SGC holders is infinitesimal. Certainly not apparent to the naked eye. So in essence one is paying an exorbitant premium just for a sticker. That sticker is creating all that money paid, not the card, since the same card can be had for way less.

    I agree with the post above, in that such a sticker buy is about some perceived "bragging rights." But bragging rights in owning what? A sticker applied by a grader (who knows as much or less about cards as a passionate collector; indeed I know some ex "pro" graders from the big companies who are quite dispassionate about cards). The tragic irony is that I think brandishing such a sticker buy is something to be chagrined over, not something to brag about. It only proves that one doesn't trust their eye, and needs a graders' validation to tell them what they have. It's akin to someone buying a tilted, off-centered, or print-dot affected card in GRADE X, when a superior-looking card can be had in GRADE X-1 (or sometimes X-2), and then brandishing the sticker and thinking, or saying, "But look, my sticker says X, mine is better!" I see this all the time when procrastinating at work (which is often) and perusing the Registry photos to look at cool cards. There are some sets that have high GPA's, and you expect to see amazing pieces, but sadly you wind up seeing some pictures are of weak-looking cards. I guess that at the end of the day, all roads lead to that old hobby axiom of buying card versus holder-- and the BGS 10 Jordan is the ultimate holder buy. One can get a GEM MT Jordan in their collection for five digits (and sometimes four), instead of six.

    Instagram: mattyc_collection

  • DM23HOF I'm looking for a nice Brett 76 Psa 8 like yours Patna!
  • esquiresportsesquiresports Posts: 1,360 ✭✭✭
    There is still much allure to BGS 10s. Take a recent example - BGS 10 1989 Donruss Griffey. Sells for about $40 in PSA 10. Sold for $1,100 in BGS 10. BGS 10 1989 Donruss Griffey

    I purchased a BGS 10 copy of my favorite card - 1983 Topps Tony Gwynn - because of the grade scarcity (6 out of 5,000 graded). I realize it seems silly to some/most, but it made the card more interesting to me. That, and it is a beautiful card. It surely wasn't to brag. I don't think I've ever mentioned this card to anyone until now. I paid about 5x what a PSA 10 brings. That's fine by me.

    Not to be the math police, but the percentage of Jordan BGS 10s is actually .07%, not .0007%.
    Always buying 1971 OPC Baseball packs.
  • I agree with esquiresports regarding high allure for BGS 10's. Congrats on your Gwynn BGS 10 topps rookie must be a beauty!
  • CDsNutsCDsNuts Posts: 10,092
    The other thing to think about is many BGS 10's are sheet-cut after market. It's very rare that a card from the 80s or earlier will survive the cutting, packaging, shipping and ripping processes without the slightest of flaws. A card on a sheet that's been rolled up in a tube since the 80s being cut perfectly using modern technology is way more likely to happen.
  • Cdsnuts the concern is for mostly opeechee BGS cards which are sheet cut. Most collectors like Psa for opeechee cards cause Psa will not grade those opeechee sheet cut cards. For example a Gretzky opeechee rookie with rough edges in Psa is highly desirable.
  • goraidersgoraiders Posts: 2,158 ✭✭✭


    << <i>The other thing to think about is many BGS 10's are sheet-cut after market. It's very rare that a card from the 80s or earlier will survive the cutting, packaging, shipping and ripping processes without the slightest of flaws. A card on a sheet that's been rolled up in a tube since the 80s being cut perfectly using modern technology is way more likely to happen. >>



    The answer to the million dollar question right here IMO.
    J.R.
    Needs'
    1972 Football-9's high#'s
    1965 Football-8's
    1958 Topps FB-7-8
  • AlbertdiditAlbertdidit Posts: 560 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Cdsnuts the concern is for mostly opeechee BGS cards which are sheet cut >>



    Are you actually being serious??? Where did you come to that conclusion

  • CDsNutsCDsNuts Posts: 10,092
    Cdsnuts the concern is for mostly opeechee BGS cards which are sheet cut. Most collectors like Psa for opeechee cards cause Psa will not grade those opeechee sheet cut cards. For example a Gretzky opeechee rookie with rough edges in Psa is highly desirable.

    So your theory is that sheets only exist of OPC and not Topps, Fleer, Donruss, etc...? Why would the OPC cutters only cut OPC sheets? That makes no sense. The reason it's at the forefront with OPC is because they're so easy to see due to a lack of rough cut. But a lot of other sheet-cut cards lie in BGS 9.5 and 10 slabs. These BGS 10 Marino and Elway RCs are 100% sheet cut- Link . The borders are too big, especially on the Marino.

    I have a framed sheet of 1980-81 with 2 Bird/Magic/Erving's- if I was so inclined I could buy the best cutting equipment available and see if I could cut a $50k+ perfect card. If I'm thinking I could do this, imagine what someone who already has the equipment is thinking.

    Lee
  • Lee
    Yes and remember that Not all topps, donruss and fleer cards in BGS holders that are 9.5 and 10 are sheet cut. Perhaps the Marino and elway you mentioned are.
  • AlbertdiditAlbertdidit Posts: 560 ✭✭✭
    He never said they all are..he said many are. I dont think you can dispute that
  • Agree but then why do so many people try to cross Psa 9's into BGS 9.5 holders? And why do so many people try to
    Crossover Psa 10 cards into BGS 10 holders?
    Answer: the card is more prestigious in the rarer BGS 10 holder and therefore worth much more as seen by BGS 10 versus PSA 10 sales.
  • AlbertdiditAlbertdidit Posts: 560 ✭✭✭
    Isnt that because a PSA 9 is worth less than a BGS 9.5

    I dont know if people are bothering to cross Psa 10 cards into BGS 10 as much anymore i would imagine or not as much as in past
  • DM23HOFDM23HOF Posts: 2,113 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Agree but then why do so many people try to cross Psa 9's into BGS 9.5 holders? And why do so many people try to
    Crossover Psa 10 cards into BGS 10 holders?
    Answer: the card is more prestigious in the rarer BGS 10 holder and therefore worth much more as seen by BGS 10 versus PSA 10 sales. >>



    I would respectfully add that it is, "more prestigious to some," and, "worth much more to some." There are definitely a great amount of collectors out there who find only cards prestigious and valuable, and not the holder. In other words, if a card is overgraded or poorly centered or tilted, it doesn't matter to me what the slab says. If it's deserving, that's another thing-- provided there isn't another that looks the same or better available in a cheaper holder, which, to me, is the more impressive and keener acquisition. When it comes to collections of any sort, I always find it interesting that what might have tremendous value to one collector is utterly worthless to another. For example, for a collection, I would pay an enormous premium for a dead centered version of certain cards, and not bid at all for super high grade versions for which others might pay big prices. So much of collecting is in the eye of the beholder. Another collector might think that bonkers. Some guys will pay huge for a rare common, others may think that bonkers. I have a friend who spends big on cars; he loves them. We have a buddy who thinks spending on cars is crazy. All different strokes out there. So I agree that people try and cross PSA 10s to BGS 10s because the BGS 10 is often worth more to someone who puts great value and prestige on the sticker. But conversely, there are some who look at the stickers as just a great evaluative service, to ensure (to a good extent) against alterations, fakes, trimming, etc.

    Instagram: mattyc_collection

  • esquiresportsesquiresports Posts: 1,360 ✭✭✭
    I agree that for modern cards (1980-1990s), BGS 10s tend to sell for multiples of their PSA 10 equivalents. But even a BGS 10 supporter like myself recognizes this is largely manufactured scarcity, as noted by DM23HOF. I wouldn't call them more prestigious, just more scarce.

    I also don't have an issue with sheet-cut cards, although I don't believe they should be valued as highly as factory cut cards. I have a 1974 OPC Aaron #1 BGS 9.5 that is almost surely sheet cut, but man it looks nice.
    Always buying 1971 OPC Baseball packs.
  • thunderdanthunderdan Posts: 3,036 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Cdsnuts the concern is for mostly opeechee BGS cards which are sheet cut. Most collectors like Psa for opeechee cards cause Psa will not grade those opeechee sheet cut cards. For example a Gretzky opeechee rookie with rough edges in Psa is highly desirable. >>



    All those Dan Marino BGS 10 RCs totally came from packs.
    image


  • CDsNutsCDsNuts Posts: 10,092
    All those Dan Marino BGS 10 RCs totally came from packs.

    Yeah they did. There was a Topps plant in Cedar Rapids that was testing out new run of '84 football where all the cards where cut 1/2 centimeter bigger than normal cards and every card came out pristine. Rumor has it that Fritsch still has 8 cases of these tucked away.
  • TomiTomi Posts: 643 ✭✭✭
    If that Jordan is worth $100,000+ then this Orr should have sold long time ago. That Jordan was a POP 2 not too long ago so just imagine how many more BGS 10's will show up. The BGS 10 will be the new BGS 9.5 soon.
    Orr
  • vols1vols1 Posts: 761 ✭✭✭
    What do 1985 Star Jordan BGS 10's sell for?
  • Stone193Stone193 Posts: 24,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'll keep it pithy.

    Wow!
    Mike
  • Tomi,
    There are 363 BGS 9.5 fleer Jordan rookies.
    The population of BGS 10's will not be 363 anytime soon actually.
  • esquiresportsesquiresports Posts: 1,360 ✭✭✭


    << <i>If that Jordan is worth $100,000+ then this Orr should have sold long time ago. That Jordan was a POP 2 not too long ago so just imagine how many more BGS 10's will show up. The BGS 10 will be the new BGS 9.5 soon.
    Orr >>



    I have wondered if BGS might be softening their grading standards, because this would not bode well for my 1983 Gwynn, obviously. Over the past 24 months, about 250 Gwynn 1983 Topps have been graded, and none have received a 10. This is obviously just anecdotal, but I have not seen other populations from the 1980s jump out of line with general population trends. Definitely something to keep an eye on.
    Always buying 1971 OPC Baseball packs.
  • I agree with esquiresports BGS has stayed tough with its grading.
  • TomiTomi Posts: 643 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Tomi,
    There are 363 BGS 9.5 fleer Jordan rookies.
    The population of BGS 10's will not be 363 anytime soon actually. >>



    I just mean BGS 10's are becoming so common that they are not as rare as they used to be.
  • I agree gastronome an sgc 100 Jordan fleer rookie would bring tons of $$$ if one were to appear.
  • Vols1 there are no BGS 10's for Jordan star 1984-1985 star XRC #101 rookie. There are no BGS 9.5's too. There are 24 BGS 9's.
  • Espn article on Jordan BGS 10 fleer rookie selling for $100,000 through memory lane 3.5 years ago.
    http://espn.go.com/espn/page2/index?id=6663877
  • Dpeck100Dpeck100 Posts: 10,910 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Obviously you want this card to sell for a big number.

    BGS 10


    Just curious how does a 10 from BGS not have all 10 sub grades?



  • Dpeck actually it would be nice if it didn't sell for a crazy price so I can afford it one dayimage
    BGS gives 10 pristine grades with minimum 3 10 sub grades and the fourth subgrade at least a 9.5.
  • begsu1013begsu1013 Posts: 1,943 ✭✭
    because the surface quality isn't there! ; )

    good question though...
  • Dpeck100Dpeck100 Posts: 10,910 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Dpeck actually it would be nice if it didn't sell for a crazy price so I can afford it one dayimage
    BGS gives 10 pristine grades with minimum 3 10 sub grades and the fourth subgrade at least a 9.5. >>




    So like a 9.5 you just need three and one lower.

    I will say that this is obviously a sharp card and while I personally think the BGS 10 grade is a marketing ploy I will contest that if you found one with all 10 sub grades it would go through the roof.


  • Yes for a 9.5 you need three 9.5 sub grades and a 9 subgrade.
    Through my research all 5 BGS 10 fleer jordan rookies have 3 10 sub grades and 1 9.5 sub grade.
  • Dpeck100Dpeck100 Posts: 10,910 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Yes for a 9.5 you need three 9.5 sub grades and a 9 subgrade.
    Through my research all 5 BGS 10 fleer jordan rookies have 3 10 sub grades and 1 9.5 sub grade. >>



    Interesting. Thanks for the info.

    The biggest head wind for this card is BGS's dying business.

    If some how you could find one with all 10's it would be the card of this issue for sure.

    The ultimate problem is most dealers consider BGS junk. I know it breaks some hearts but it is true. The top dealers today send their best cards to PSA.

    This means that the best current cards are not being scene by BGS and there is no way to tell what PSA 10's could be BGS 10's.

    If the pop has expanded 150% in this grade then it will obviously expand more.

    Time will tell what this sells for but if my recollection is accurate I believe the last one sold for $72,000. It would seem difficult to me to break that number but obviously anything is possible.


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