What Are Your Picks For A $10K-$12K Investment For Best 10-20Yr return?

mike22y2k · August 1, 2014 8:48AM

Hello Everyone!

About 2 years ago I sold my #1 PSA graded 1979-80 Topps Hockey set. I have really missed the hunt for building a great set and
all the relationships that you build along the way. Now that my projects are done I've decided to focus on a new one and I need help from everyone out there.

If you wanted to build a $10K-$12K portfolio of Sports Cards, Non-Sports Cards, unopened boxes, packs, of any sport that you would hold for 10-20 yrs that you feel would gain the most in value over that time....... What would you choose?......... Would it be a single graded Bobby Orr?,........ 10 $1000 cards,............. An unopened box of ?. ...............What would be your personal choice?

It would be great to hear from everyone from all sports and with a few different options. Now the only criteria would be is that its pure investment and not what your focus is. We all love to build collections and sets and most of us lose money in the end doing it but that doesnt matter because we love collecting what we like.

I appreciate and look forward to all the responses from all the different people who are experts in so many different areas of our hobby.

Thanks, Mike

LarkinCollector · August 1, 2014 9:11AM

For investment purposes, none of the above. Sports cards are a hobby for me that brings personal enjoyment and the thrill of the chase, not an investment, and swings in this hobby can be too great to predict any 10-20 year ROI. That said, I think there is the most room for growth in this hobby in a lot of the 'secondary' sports with worldwide appeal: golf (my personal fav), soccer, tennis, cricket, etc.

mbz430e · August 1, 2014 10:33AM

I have found that Hall of Fame rookies have yielded a very nice return in the past 4 years. I have tried to break down the grades by era's of affordability.
1981 to present PSA 10
1970 to 1980 PSA 8 and 9's
1954 to 1969 PSA 8 and 7's
1888 to 1953 PSA whatever I can afford!

Many of these rookies have yielded a very nice return in the said time frame. A couple great examples:
1952 Hoyt Wilhelm 8
1957 Brooks Robinson 8
1967 Rod Carew 8
1971 Bert Blyleven 8
1975 George Brett 8
1979 Ozzie Smith 9
1962 Fran Tarkenton 8
1971 Terry Bradshaw 8
The thrill of finding the perfect card for the portfolio is still the most thrilling motivation. The $ is nice but the true enjoyment is the passion my circle of collecting friends and family have had since we were kids. This hobby always makes me feel young every time I approach it. Priceless!

mike22y2k · August 1, 2014 11:16AM

Thanks guys for answering...The great thing about these boards is that there's so many different opinions and so many different arguments for and against that it makes you

think and question your own decisions. I'm a very diversified investor in alot of things and I'm not expecting to make a return. If that happens then great....if not then it doesnt

matter. I love the hunt and Im hoping to get as many opinions as I can.

Thanks again, Mike

RookieHOFers · August 1, 2014 11:20AM

Mike, if it were me, I would buy as many blue chip HOF rookies in PSA 8 or better that you can afford.

I.E Seaver, Brock, Yastrzemski, Reggie Jackson, Carew, Ryan, Carlton, Brooks Robby, Frank Robby, Koufax, etc......

DM23HOF · August 1, 2014 12:12PM

I agree with the gentleman who said that such a long horizon is too impossible to model.

That said, for fun, my answer would be the best centered, eye-appealing mainstream Ruth card (i.e., Goudey #53, E121-- since the rookie and 1917 issues are beyond 10k), a 52T Mick, or a 51B Mick that you can find. The high-grade stuff (8, 9, 10) is all dependent on the grading company; who knows what that landscape is going to be in two decades. One TPG's 9 may be another's 8, etc. But if you buy the card and make it the biggest names/cards in the hobby, you won't go wrong. No matter what the TPG in 20 years, collectors will want a good looking low grade 52T Mick or mid grade 51B Mick, or a mid-grade Babe Ruth. The 52T Mick especially leads the hobby. Also, those two towering names will endure over the likes of other great but, let's face it, less popular names.

I think of it this way: How many people would take a grouping of PSA 9-grade stars like say Seaver RC, Bench RC, and a few nice second year issues of similar HOFers worth 10k, versus a nice eye-appealing '52 Topps Mantle in PSA 2-2.5? My bet is more people would want The Mick in their collections. If in the future the cards need to be crossed, The Mick is likely to remain the same grade, or not lose much value if the 2.5 becomes a 2. Whereas if any of those 9s become anything less in a new slab, they lose tons of value.

60sfan · August 1, 2014 12:35PM

'71 Hall of Famers in PSA 9....... '71 has a really big following
'83 wax boxes........very popular design and three Hall of Famers
2nd, 3rd year cards from the '50's, 60's, 70's of Hall of Famers - low pop PSA 8, PSA 9, PSA 10

Davis · August 1, 2014 12:47PM

Honestly. You give me 10 years and tell me to pick 1 thing to earn you the best return...I'll tell you to buy an actively managed international mutual fund with a strong management team. My opinion, best risk/reward payoff. Card-wise...buying strong looking 70s rookies from reputable dealers I think is your best bet and then paying a nominal fee to have them graded (that's the fun part). I think right now, we are all focused on how scarce rookies from the 50s and 60s are. Some good opportunities for the 70s.

addicted2ebay · August 1, 2014 1:17PM

52 Topps PSA Wax........ UNOPENED. I had one and let it go and will always regret it.

bounce · August 1, 2014 1:28PM

nice looking but lower grade 52t or 51b mantles
mid grade HOF RCs from the 1950s
mid to high level graded sets from the 50s/60s/70s
pretty much anything ruth or cobb
golf has a future, it's been underserved and the greats are going to be gone soon, and if tiger can get it back together…

mike22y2k · August 1, 2014 1:51PM

Thanks to all so far. I've started doing my homework already.

Mike

eagles33 · August 1, 2014 2:22PM

1984 star Jordan 101 bgs 9. The card is never centered. 9s sell for about 7-8k. I think it's the best card with potential upside. I would take whatever money I had left over and buy old video games. Like the first madden, old Nintendo games and the consoles. Kids don't collect cards today so the chances of card prices increasing in 20 years are slim IMO. Kids do play video games.. But don't really collect them yet. In 20 years these will be the people entering the market with disposable income. I don't really think there will be many new card collectors. I know there are some rare Nintendo games that have sold for big bucks .. But in general they are not considered collectables... Which is why I think they will be collectable.

3BoyzTrading · August 1, 2014 6:47PM

Kris Bryant 2013 Bowman Chrome Rookie Autographed cards. They weren't inserted into 2013 packs but in 2014 packs. He's a cant miss prospect and surefire Cubs great.

Dpeck100 · August 2, 2014 1:30AM

<< To answer your question specifically, I would buy any rare M. Jordan items. They say that hobby items become hot after a 30 year period (1985-2015), because that's when people from that era start to get a little extra money. So think of all the big players from 1982-1988 in
all sports, and think about the rare cards for those players. They will only get more popular as people get more money 10 years from now.

However, (and this does not answer your question), I would take 10 grand right now and buy 150 shares of Facebook stock. In 10-12 years
that stock price (outside of a market collapse) should easily be in the 500-1000 range, and will bring the best return on your money. JMO.

I don't like to look at cards as investments. I approach the hobby as something fun to enjoy. I would think those who watch the prices of
their cards go up and down, and have an emotional attachment to the money side of the hobby, may get a bad taste in their mouth over time. >>

At $1,000 a share Facebook would have a market capitalization of $2,598 trillion. You can't be serious or you don't realize how big the company already is.

Once the growth rate slows the price to earnings ratio will fall and keep a lid on the stock. Exxon Mobil has a market cap. of 421 billion and makes 33.48 billion in profit. Facebook at current estimates earns 4.21 billion in profit with a market cap of 188 billion.

I am guessing you are just looking at the share price and not the overall picture. The share price of a stock is irrelevant. All that matters is the number of shares times the price.

rtimmer · August 2, 2014 2:04AM

+1 on facebook not being a 2 trillion dollar stock in 10 years the math is just not there. I also doubt it will be the first 1 trillion dollar stock,but that's another topic. Here's my second, third and fourth best ideas on what I'd do today with $10k.

1. 1980 topps basketball set
2. Corner the market on the 1991 Ceasars palace heavy hitters sets (one of the rarest Jordan/Elway card sets out there)
3. Unopened star and rookie showing baseball cello packs

I'm currently still working on my best idea

sbfinley · August 2, 2014 2:18AM

Mid to high grade Goudey HoFers or a low to mid grade set. T206's were always popular, but have rocketed in the past 3-4 years. 1914 CJ prices are borderline absurd. 33 Goudey is the iconic set between the tobacco issues and introduction of Topps and Bowman. When Goudey issues start creeping near the century mark I expect a sharp increase on top of their normal inflation.

Anthony555 · August 2, 2014 3:06AM

<< Kids don't collect cards today so the chances of card prices increasing in 20 years are slim IMO >>

I will personally guarantee you out of my own pocket that any PSA 9 or 10 pre-1980 HOF card will be more in 20-years than it is today. For example, let's take a PSA 9 1975 Topps Nolan Ryan. It's $1,750 today. So my PSA 9 Ryan's will STILL only be worth $1,750 in 20-years from now because everyone is collecting Nintendo???

Dpeck100 · August 2, 2014 3:28AM

<< 

<< +1 on facebook not being a 2 trillion dollar stock in 10 years the math is just not there. I also doubt it will be the first 1 trillion dollar stock >>

+1 on facebook not being a 2 trillion dollar stock, or 1 trillion dollar stock.

But yes, Facebook will be a trillion dollar company in 10 years, bringing it's share price north of 500.

Google and Apple will most likely be trillion dollar companies as well. >>

You obviously have no comprehension of how multiple compression works. Facebook trades at 35.8 times forward earnings. Walmart is 13.06. Google is 18.15. Apple is 13.67. Cisco is 11.57. Microsoft is 13.39. All of these stocks used to trade at much higher valuations when they were growing faster.

Using a 15 multiple Facebook we need to earn $33.33 a share or 86.66 billion per year in profit.

It is nice fantasy but the probability of it happening is less then 0.01%.

mike22y2k · August 2, 2014 5:30AM

Wow! I knew this would be a great thread. I'm already quite diversified with investments so thats why I'm putting this out there for all the experts so we can brainstorm all the different points of view and get me some great ideas like the ones already put out there.

I appreciate the time put in by everyone so far......keep em coming

Mike

lurkingnomore · August 2, 2014 5:35AM

Based on what I'm experiencing here at the National I'd say PSA 10 football of HOF from 70's and 80's

perkdog · August 2, 2014 7:14AM

Personally I think a '52 Mantle or any Ruth card will always be a sound investment. If I was going to put 10-12k into a card in hopes of making money down the road it would be one of the cards I mentioned but that's just me

TheCARDKid · August 2, 2014 7:40AM

On a percentage basis, a T206 Wagner and 52 Topps Mantle will probably continue to out perform the general card market.

-The 52 Topps PSA 10 Mantle sold for $121,000 in 1996 I think? On a percentage basis, that's extraordinary vs the S&P or commodities, or gold. People criticize PSA's grading standards (they aren't perfect), but there are still only 3 PSA 10's. Obviously not nearly enough to satisfy demand.

Similar with the Wagner. I think these cards have such an awareness outside of the hobby, it dwarfs anything like a 33 Goudey Gehrig or Ruth, or T206 Ty Cobb. Those are nice cards. But the Mantle and Wagner are in a different league.

-Re Facebook, I think we are in a mini tech bubble, similar to 1998 - 2000. Google is where microsoft was 14 years ago in terms of market dominance. The tech valuations of uber and snapchat are very 1998-ish.

Cisco at one point was going to be the worlds first trillion dollar company. Tech changes too fast to apply some type of exponential growth model, where you grow 25 or 30% a year forever.

ClockworkAngel · August 2, 2014 8:38AM

The iconic cards in the hobby that are few and far between

For 10K, you can get a 52T Mantle in decent shape

OR

9's of the must haves
1986F Jordan
1981T Montana
1975T George Brett Mini
1973T Mike Schmidt
PSA 8 Nolan Ryan

OR

any clean Near Mint to Mint Mickey Mantle Topps regular issued cards. Those just seem to continue to be in high demand

vols1 · August 2, 2014 9:49AM

First I would say Redskins memorabilia. There will be a run on that stuff if the team name goes away. Next I would say Star basketball. Surely someday PSA will hire somebody that knows what their doing, and when they do there will be a run on the original Star cards.

DM23HOF · August 2, 2014 12:07PM

<< The iconic cards in the hobby that are few and far between

For 10K, you can get a 52T Mantle in decent shape

OR

9's of the must haves
1986F Jordan
1981T Montana
1975T George Brett Mini
1973T Mike Schmidt
PSA 8 Nolan Ryan

OR

any clean Near Mint to Mint Mickey Mantle Topps regular issued cards. Those just seem to continue to be in high demand >>

Todd,

Well said, and let me say that of your three good options I would take the "decent shape" Mantle 52 or really nice 51B RC for that matter way over the grouping of 9's of the other greats-- if I had to choose between the two. I say this because, end of the day, the 9s are still condition-rarities; there will be 8s that look just as nice, or 10s that someone who is after the label will prefer. Whereas a 52 or 51 Mantle with solid eye appeal is desirable no matter what grading companies exist in 20 years or what the grade is. The others cards are more easily found/replaced for a collector as well, which would make a collector quicker to jump on the nice looking Mick. Just one collector's opinion and cannot go astray with any of those three avenues you identified.

ClockworkAngel · August 2, 2014 12:14PM

Matty, I would agree that the 52T Mantle is the best option for a sound investment, but it's not as fun as hunting down the nicest Mint Jordan, Montana, Brett, etc

Dpeck100 · August 2, 2014 12:25PM

Matty C

You think everyone now who buys high grade cards is after the label. I guess some how you have forgotten your prior collecting days.

What is funny is now that you constantly disparage collectors who want top level cards but some how you have forgotten that in many cases they are the best performing.

A Mantle 10 is a 3 Million dollar card. It has moved up 25 fold. Make fun of the label collector. LOL!!!!!!!!

DM23HOF · August 2, 2014 12:42PM

Where did I disparage collectors of high grade? When I say, "after the label," with respect to 10s, the fact is that one can definitely find the same card in a 9 holder-- and that 9 is still high grade, so how am I disparaging high grade? But because the 10-type card can indeed be found in a 9 holder, there is no doubt the allure of the 10 label plays a part in the acquisition of such a card. Again, that is not disparaging in any way. I think you are reading into my comment above. And for the record, I have no problem with high grade; I own some cards in high grade; I have a problem with overgraded cards. If a high grade or any grade is warranted, I have zero problem with it whatsoever. My response to Todd was an opinion on what I think would be the best investment, and I think in that hypothetical three-option scenario the 9s are caught in the middle relative to 10s for the 10 collector and high-end 8s for the value seeker, and hence Todd's first option would be my preference.

If some guy wants to pay 3 Million or whatever for a hypothetical perfect PSA 10 52 Mick, I applaud it. Great card. If he wants to pay that same money for a tilted or OC 10, then I personally would not make that same call.

And I like top-level cards-- it is just that the top level card is not always the card with the higher label, in some cases. Embracing that nuance and not letting labels dictate over a collector's eye is a good thing.

I am going out now, so will dispense with the internet beef. Have a good weekend.

Dpeck100 · August 2, 2014 1:19PM

Internet beef LOL

Matty there is no other board member who talks more smack about label collectors.

Dpeck100 · August 2, 2014 3:11PM

This thread is about investment returns. The bottom line with collectibles is you buy the best.

There is no disputing that high grade examples of trading cards in general out perform their lower graded counterparts.

Yes there are examples where someone buys a 9 that becomes a 10 that has an even greater rate of return but you can't bank on that strategy.

I find it comical that certain collectors some how think this logic doesn't hold true. It has been the case for as long as collectibles have been of interest to the masses.

We have been in an incredibly strong market for trading cards the past five years and most cards have moved up substantially.

Predicting the next ten to twenty years is even more tough as so many cards are at all time highs.

A year or so ago someone posed this question and my comment was soccer cards. I think that is still the case. They have exploded and will continue to as the base of fans have money.

If wrestling fans on average had wealth, the cards would be exponentially higher on average then where they are today. In reality they don't and this holds back the genre.

Soccer on the other hand is global and there is huge money coming into the sport. I think this is by far the number one investment area for cards. I have no interest personally but if one is a speculator there is nothing that even comes close at the moment.

elsnorto · August 2, 2014 4:28PM

David, for what it's worth, I don't think Matty is disparaging people who buy high grade cards as a whole, but rather advocating there are lesser grade cards with more eye appeal than their higher grade counterparts.

Yes, I think he has also questioned those who have clearly bought the number on the holder instead of the card inside of it, but he's hardly alone in that.

I don't think he, or anyone else, takes exception to people who prefer to buy high end grades where the number on the flip and the card aren't obviously mismatched.

As far as soccer... I've been hearing about it becoming the "next big thing" in the States since the 1980's and it seems only modestly more popular now than then. Internationally, I don't know how prevalent childhood soccer card collecting is, or has been in the past... but I wouldn't bet against the upside you predict.

Besides, very few (myself included) took you seriously when you predicted wrestling cards would explode... and they did just that. You should start a sports cards ETF since there have been so many threads as of late asking about what to invest in.

Snorto~

Dpeck100 · August 3, 2014 12:57AM

<< David, for what it's worth, I don't think Matty is disparaging people who buy high grade cards as a whole, but rather advocating there are lesser grade cards with more eye appeal than their higher grade counterparts.

Yes, I think he has also questioned those who have clearly bought the number on the holder instead of the card inside of it, but he's hardly alone in that.

I don't think he, or anyone else, takes exception to people who prefer to buy high end grades where the number on the flip and the card aren't obviously mismatched.

As far as soccer... I've been hearing about it becoming the "next big thing" in the States since the 1980's and it seems only modestly more popular now than then. Internationally, I don't know how prevalent childhood soccer card collecting is, or has been in the past... but I wouldn't bet against the upside you predict.

Besides, very few (myself included) took you seriously when you predicted wrestling cards would explode... and they did just that. You should start a sports cards ETF since there have been so many threads as of late asking about what to invest in.

Snorto~ >>

There are other message boards obviously for trading cards and I read those too. The commentary has been consistent. There has been a constant bashing of label collectors. They aren't real collectors and so on. At the end of the day the label says what it says. I have seen my share of cards on these boards where many thought they were over graded and they still bring good money.

Making fun of what anyone collects to me is just silly. If you want to collect Cabbage Patch Dolls be my guest.

What I find most amusing is the cards that have performed the best are cards like Magic The Gathering and Pokemon that would bring ridicule from many. There are quite a few high paying technology jobs and anything that can cater to that personality type can do well with the incomes they bring to the table.

The movement in wrestling cards to me was easy to predict and more of an untapped market than anything else. If you poll most males under 40 they watched wrestling as a kid. So much emphasis for the future outlook of cards is placed on the nostalgia effect and there is plenty to be had when it comes to wrestling. There was a thread the other day asking who your favorite wrestler was and there was a broad range of responses. This is exactly why the cards could move up is not every answer was the big three Hulk, Ric and Andre.

The mega stars of wrestling are pop culture icons and having a trading card with their image just made since to me.

The same can be said for the Mike Tyson rookie. Anyone could have predicted that card would move up and it was more of a lack of market information then anything.

One of the things that makes predicting the future outlook for cards tough is in the past five years so many diamonds in the rough have been discovered and the low hanging fruit is gone. I don't think you can place high compounding rates of return on cards at the moment. I can't think of one HOF player from the various sports whose cards have not appreciated at a high rate in the past few years. Maintaining the torrid pace of appreciation seems highly unlikely and a period of price consolidation seems more likely to me.

In terms of the top end of the market that is where the demand is. In some ways it is counter intuitive because in life you would expect there to be more demand for their lower grade and less expensive counterparts which would be considered a close substitute. With collectibles that isn't the case because of the bragging rights associated with owning a higher quality copy. When you watch the activity and interest in a 9 vs a 10 it is pretty clear. Humans like to be able to say they have the best.

The reason I think soccer makes sense is the global aspect. It is huge around the world and this means the market opportunity is quite large. MLS soccer is coming to Orlando where I live and I actually bought into a season ticket package. I don't even like soccer but I am willing to give it a try. There are plenty who do and the untapped market for the cards no longer exists but the move is early in its life span is my bet. One of the things soccer has going for it is the guys are studs. They look good and are in great shape and get to nail some of the worlds hottest women. If you listen to the president of the MLS they are quite aware of this from a marketing stand point and seek to place the athletes in fashion magazines and so forth. Creating mega stars like they are will help the cards is my bet. I don't own any other then the stickers that came from the 1986 Panini packs and have no interest in speculating here but if my primary goal was price appreciation this would be my current target.

Dpeck100 · August 3, 2014 1:04AM

<< 

<< This thread is about investment returns. The bottom line with collectibles is you buy the best.

There is no disputing that high grade examples of trading cards in general out perform their lower graded counterparts.

Yes there are examples where someone buys a 9 that becomes a 10 that has an even greater rate of return but you can't bank on that strategy.

I find it comical that certain collectors some how think this logic doesn't hold true. It has been the case for as long as collectibles have been of interest to the masses.

>>

While what you say is certainly true as far as past returns, the more time that passes by, the more difficult it is for the math to hold. For example, let's assume that the 1952 Topps Mantle in 10 is $3 million card and that in 9 it is $500K. Those are hypothetical because the card has rarely traded in those grades as we all know. If investment returns continue to clearly favor the top pop grades, and we assume that the 9 can grow at 10% per year and the 10 grows at 15%, you'd have the following results:

After 10 years:
09 = $1.3M
10 = $12.1M

After 20 years:
09 = $3.4M
10 = $49.0M

After 30 years:
09 = $8.7M
10 = $198.6M (essentially $200 million)

I suppose all that is possible but at some point the gap becomes too large to sustain itself and continue to yield higher investment returns. If we assumed a 20% growth for the top condition card, which probably is the case looking backward for many cards at the higher grade, you'd have the following results:

After 10 years:
09 = $1.3M
10 = $18.6M

After 20 years:
09 = $3.4M
10 = $115.0M

After 30 years:
09 = $8.7M
10 = $712.1M

I guess anything's possible but both scenarios (especially the latter) seem highly unlikely to me. >>

I think your point is valid that the law of large numbers becomes an issue over time. That being said it hasn't yet. I though wouldn't expect the top end of the market to come to a complete stop and yet have the bottom rise. I am of the belief that the top grade copy helps drag the others along with it.

Personally I think it is hard to be bullish on cards at the moment. This in no way saying I am bearish but I think a period of consolidation will occur. Just like in the stock market when an equity has a huge multi year run there is generally some period of consolidation and letting time catch up with the price move.

When I first joined the boards four years ago a Wayne Gretzky PSA 9 was around a $6,000 card and today you routinely see cards sell for over $9,000. I don't think you can argue that a compounding rate of return like this will continue at that current pace. I could be wrong but I doubt it is likely.

grote15 · August 3, 2014 2:17AM

Dpeck, I don't think Matty is saying that collectors of high grade cards are foolish or not true collectors, but that as a collector, there is something to be said for the aesthetic appeal of the card itself, independent of the grade. Ideally, you want to find a card that is BOTH higher grade and aesthetically pleasing to the eye~the former is a wiser decision for the investment part of collecting, and the latter appeals to the sensibility of the collector. Personally, I would prefer an high-end 8 over a low-end 9, and while I would prefer the 9, all things being equal, as a card collector, I have seem many cases where they are not. There is a balance, imo, between what appeals to the investor and to the collector~and while we all want to see our cards appreciate in value while we own them, the part of the hobby that draws us to collecting in the first place~the appeal of the card itself, is also an important factor to consider, too.

baz518 · August 3, 2014 5:51AM

I'd stick to my preference, unopened. I'd also stick within my era, 1980/81... and buy 4 boxes of 80/81 Topps basketball wax. Don't think you could go wrong there.

ClockworkAngel · August 3, 2014 11:11AM

DPeck, I can vouch for Matty and tell you with 100% certainty that he means nothing disparaging about the guys that chases labels. We all see what great investments they are. Don't take it so personally my friend....

Stone193 · August 3, 2014 12:59PM

www.pwccauctions.com
Ended: Jul 08, 2014 20:26:30 PDT
US $23,650.99
[ 78 bids ]

This PSA 8 sold for over 23K.

In Sep 1995 Superior Sports Cards had a PSA 8 listed for 4500 bucks in SCD.

How far can these cards go? Have no idea.

PMKAY · August 3, 2014 3:18PM

The soccer card / sticker market is one I know next to nothing about. I do have relatives in Europe who like most males over there love soccer more than Americans love football or Canadians love hockey. I've asked them about soccer cards and stickers and they've never been into it and don't know many people other than kids who are. Obviously that blanket statement cannot be true, there has to be adult soccer fans in various parts of the world who are passionate about them. But, is grading them something they do much of? I've only looked at a few soccer products on the pop report and there are several recent issues (last 12 years) that I expected to see some high volumes on but I was surprised that the opposite was true. For example Panini puts out sticker sets for each world cup. I checked to see how many stickers from the 2010 world cup set have been graded. The number? 1. So while I understand Dpeck's prediction for soccer cards and stickers to catch fire going forward and have no reason to disagree with it I do wonder if that would extend to graded examples.

A few other questions:

Will soccer products catch on in a big way in North America or just the countries where it's the number one sport? My understanding is that the ratings for TV games from some of the best leagues in the world continue to go up in North America.

Will collectors in other countries sub cards to PSA?

Dpeck100 · August 3, 2014 8:37PM

<< The soccer card / sticker market is one I know next to nothing about. I do have relatives in Europe who like most males over there love soccer more than Americans love football or Canadians love hockey. I've asked them about soccer cards and stickers and they've never been into it and don't know many people other than kids who are. Obviously that blanket statement cannot be true, there has to be adult soccer fans in various parts of the world who are passionate about them. But, is grading them something they do much of? I've only looked at a few soccer products on the pop report and there are several recent issues (last 12 years) that I expected to see some high volumes on but I was surprised that the opposite was true. For example Panini puts out sticker sets for each world cup. I checked to see how many stickers from the 2010 world cup set have been graded. The number? 1. So while I understand Dpeck's prediction for soccer cards and stickers to catch fire going forward and have no reason to disagree with it I do wonder if that would extend to graded examples.

A few other questions:

Will soccer products catch on in a big way in North America or just the countries where it's the number one sport? My understanding is that the ratings for TV games from some of the best leagues in the world continue to go up in North America.

Will collectors in other countries sub cards to PSA? >>

There have been some very hot modern soccer products come out in recent years. The current stars like Lionel Messi, Christiano Ronaldo and so on have seen a big surge in their top cards. Older stars like Diego Maradona I know are in some of the Panini sets and in many cases the examples that surface are in poor condition.

I just did a search by Panini World Cup and the modern stuff has moved up much more then I realized. There are some eye popping sales on EBAY.

These are the type of items where prices I think will continue to move.

1970 Panini

Dpeck100 · August 3, 2014 8:51PM

<< DPeck, I can vouch for Matty and tell you with 100% certainty that he means nothing disparaging about the guys that chases labels. We all see what great investments they are. Don't take it so personally my friend.... >>

I knew it wouldn't take long to find a few good ones across the street.

"Gradewhores"

Dpeck100 · August 3, 2014 10:43PM

So it is perfectly okay to mock collectors who buy cards with in one persons view less eye appeal then a lower graded copy. Okay.

Using this logic I guess it is perfectly acceptable for the rich guy who buys a high grade copy of one of the mega cards to make fun of the collector who buys the 1 or 2 with rounded corners.

I doubt that commentary would be looked at to favorably.

Just because I find this amusing I am going to spend a little time today reading the Dmirti Young SCP thread. I bet I can find some nice ones in there.

What Are Your Picks For A $10K-$12K Investment For Best 10-20Yr return?

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