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$10,000+ card sells for $50 in PWCC auction
Maurice
Posts: 1,136
I saw this auction being discussed on another message board.
Auction link: http://www.ebay.com/itm/140991048340?orig_cvip=true
The consignment seller failed to identify this card as having a Brown Old Mill back advertisement.
A brown Old Mill back is a major rarity, and it is considered to be amongst the most difficult of all T206 backs.
The card sold for the price of a common Black Old Mill back.
Auction link: http://www.ebay.com/itm/140991048340?orig_cvip=true
The consignment seller failed to identify this card as having a Brown Old Mill back advertisement.
A brown Old Mill back is a major rarity, and it is considered to be amongst the most difficult of all T206 backs.
The card sold for the price of a common Black Old Mill back.
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Wow.
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." Dr. Seuss
i bet there's quite a few of us who could tell such a tale of woe. that's a big O for the winner.
Looking to BUY n332 1889 SF Hess cards and high grade cards from 19th century especially. "Once you have wrestled everything else in life is easy" Dan Gable
<< <i>Maurice how did this situation come to light? >>
Dpeck, here is a link to the discussion:
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=173902
The PWCC auction is first mentioned in post #30.
<< <i>Would that card really fetch $10,000 at auction? >>
From what I understand, $10k would probably be a conservative estimate.
<< <i>I am totally amazed at the number of people who missed this condition rarirty, starting with the consignor. It went from the consignor's hands, through Brent's hands, and all the bidders eyeballs and noone noticed it. The stigma associated with AUTHENTIC cards had alot to do with it I am sure. Bidders avoide those cards like the plague, for reasons that I don't totally agree with. >>
I agree about people not having much interest in cards slabbed AUTHENTIC but that's the only way a graded T206 brown old mill back would be found as all of the known examples are hand cut.
Kind of tells you how much Brent knows about T206s. He sells a lot of them, I'm shocked he missed this. Then again, I'm shocked the owner of the card and all the Net54 guys missed this as well. Goes to show you that there are still incredible finds to be had on eBay.
You could easily sue a Christies Auction House or a similar one for such an extreme mistake.
Always looking for Topps Salesman Samples, pre '51 unopened packs, E90-2, E91a, N690 Kalamazoo Bats, and T204 Square Frame Ramly's
<< <i>At least this consignment seller had a picture of the back lol. >>
heh
Like others, I'm very surprised this slipped under everyone's radar. How this didn't pop up on N54 is beyond me.
edit: looks like it didn't - there is a nine page discussion here. Looks like many originally dismissed it as being a brown back.
Dodgers collection scans | Brett Butler registry | 1978 Dodgers - straight 9s, homie
<< <i>
<< <i>I am totally amazed at the number of people who missed this condition rarirty, starting with the consignor. It went from the consignor's hands, through Brent's hands, and all the bidders eyeballs and noone noticed it. The stigma associated with AUTHENTIC cards had alot to do with it I am sure. Bidders avoide those cards like the plague, for reasons that I don't totally agree with. >>
I agree about people not having much interest in cards slabbed AUTHENTIC but that's the only way a graded T206 brown old mill back would be found as all of the known examples are hand cut. >>
Does anyone know why the cards would be labeled trimmed vs handcut?
<< <i>Like others, I'm very surprised this slipped under everyone's radar. How this didn't pop up on N54 is beyond me.
edit: looks like it didn't - there is a nine page discussion here. Looks like many originally dismissed it as being a brown back. >>
TNP, the net54 link was posted earlier. And, no, nobody is questioning the PWCC card. It is absolutely a brown Old Mill.
The beginning of the net54 discussion is about a different card. That is the card being questioned, and it's definitely not brown. The seller is trying to get a huge premium for it by claiming it is a shade between black and brown.
The PWCC card isn't mentioned until post #30.
<< <i>Sounds like Brent forgot his usual "outright steal at anything in the realm of black back old mill prices" description. >>
To PWCC's credit, though, it appears he's really toned down the photoshop enhancements. The scan of this card actually looks normal. The borders don't glow-in-the-dark and the colors in the image don't look like skittles.
It is the seller's responsibility to proofread all ad copy and to notify Brent if any changes need to be made.
<< <i>
<< <i>Sounds like Brent forgot his usual "outright steal at anything in the realm of black back old mill prices" description. >>
To PWCC's credit, though, it appears he's really toned down the photoshop enhancements. The scan of this card actually looks normal. The borders don't glow-in-the-dark and the colors in the image don't look like skittles. >>
Personally, I don't feel that Brent deserves any ”credit” for this particular listing. Huge miss.
<< <i>
<< <i>Like others, I'm very surprised this slipped under everyone's radar. How this didn't pop up on N54 is beyond me.
edit: looks like it didn't - there is a nine page discussion here. Looks like many originally dismissed it as being a brown back. >>
TNP, the net54 link was posted earlier. And, no, nobody is questioning the PWCC card. It is absolutely a brown Old Mill.
The beginning of the net54 discussion is about a different card. That is the card being questioned, and it's definitely not brown. The seller is trying to get a huge premium for it by claiming it is a shade between black and brown.
The PWCC card isn't mentioned until post #30. >>
gotcha - thanks for clearing that up.
Dodgers collection scans | Brett Butler registry | 1978 Dodgers - straight 9s, homie
<< <i>Clearly there is negligence here on the part of PWCC. Do EBAY consignment sellers have any liability for something like this?
It is the seller's responsibility to proofread all ad copy and to notify Brent if any changes need to be made. >>
From http://www.pwccauctions.com/consign.php
"Consigning with PWCC is designed to be both fun and easy. Consignors need only ship the items to our auction house, and their job is done. We do the work to list the items in our upcoming monthly auction, manage the auction process, and then issue payment to the consignor. That’s it."
And from http://www.pwccauctions.com/why-choose-pwcc.php
"Professional Presentation. We are recognized across the hobby for our professional auction format with industry-leading digital images and item descriptions."
"We consider ourselves to be one of the finest brokers of both vintage and modern graded sportscards."
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Sounds like Brent forgot his usual "outright steal at anything in the realm of black back old mill prices" description. >>
To PWCC's credit, though, it appears he's really toned down the photoshop enhancements. The scan of this card actually looks normal. The borders don't glow-in-the-dark and the colors in the image don't look like skittles. >>
Personally, I don't feel that Brent deserves any ”credit” for this particular listing. Huge miss. >>
Nor do I. It's called a backhanded compliment.
To PWCC's credit, though, it appears he's really toned down the photoshop enhancements. The scan of this card actually looks normal. The borders don't glow-in-the-dark and the colors in the image don't look like skittles. >>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Like others, I'm very surprised this slipped under everyone's radar. How this didn't pop up on N54 is beyond me.
edit: looks like it didn't - there is a nine page discussion here. Looks like many originally dismissed it as being a brown back. >>
TNP, the net54 link was posted earlier. And, no, nobody is questioning the PWCC card. It is absolutely a brown Old Mill.
The beginning of the net54 discussion is about a different card. That is the card being questioned, and it's definitely not brown. The seller is trying to get a huge premium for it by claiming it is a shade between black and brown.
The PWCC card isn't mentioned until post #30. >>
gotcha - thanks for clearing that up. >>
They discussed a back that was somewhere between black/brown after post #30 and I thought it was regarding the $10K card as well. Now it makes a lot more sense.
-CDs Nuts, 1/20/14
*1956 Topps baseball- 97.4% complete, 7.24 GPA
*Clemente basic set: 85.0% complete, 7.89 GPA
<< <i>Maurice, you're confusing a marketing blurb with auction house rules. If there was an ad that said this item could be had for a song, would you walk in singing "You Light Up My Life"?
Brent didn't violate his auction house rules--I don't hear anyone suggesting that he did. But those marketing blurbs are what he uses to sell his services and hype his auctions. The way he describes auctions is all about the marketing hype and no doubt helps him attain very strong prices on his cards. Cards, of course, which are woefully undergraded and would be a steal at anything in the realm of the next grade up's prices.
In this case, he simply missed it, and it cost his client thousands and thousands of dollars--not to mention his own commission. To me, it's much more an issue of reputation and credibility rather than violating any of his own auction rules.
Where is this figure coming from? Are there some recent realized sales of any Brown Old Mill backs?
A quick google search did not yield any Brown Old Mill auction results outside of a large group sale of T206 cards containing a lone Brown Old Mill in 2010 that went for $20k. They don't appear to be traded enough to use past sales as an accurate indication of a future auction result.
<< <i>From what I understand, $10k would probably be a conservative estimate.
Where is this figure coming from? Are there some recent realized sales of any Brown Old Mill backs? >>
A could years ago a t206 Sid Smith Psa Authentic Brown back sold for $4,300. I would be surprised if it doubled that sale amount. Still a nice win.
<< <i>
<< <i>Maurice, you're confusing a marketing blurb with auction house rules. If there was an ad that said this item could be had for a song, would you walk in singing "You Light Up My Life"?
Brent didn't violate his auction house rules--I don't hear anyone suggesting that he did. But those marketing blurbs are what he uses to sell his services and hype his auctions. The way he describes auctions is all about the marketing hype and no doubt helps him attain very strong prices on his cards. Cards, of course, which are woefully undergraded and would be a steal at anything in the realm of the next grade up's prices.
In this case, he simply missed it, and it cost his client thousands and thousands of dollars--not to mention his own commission. To me, it's much more an issue of reputation and credibility rather than violating any of his own auction rules. >>
If the seller knew what he had he should have spoken up. If I was consigning a rare variation I would A) send it it back to psa as a mechanical error to note the variation and then
it slipped, but it evens out overall
it works the other way too, people spending big$$ for obviously faked OM garbage
ie the clowns spending big$$ on those obviously faked 'black double overprint' OMs that I brought to Net54s attention a few years back (see image below for an authentic one), .......shows how much some actually 'know' what they collect/have.... to give the blackdoubleOP OM guys a break it should be said that some of the faked OPOMdoubles were slabbed too lol.... and I havent collect this set in over 2 decades now and knew what they were right away... fake.
negs on this overrated ink shade/color variation in this post
the prob is the shades of the brown and black backs are so close at time, that it can be a judgement call especially on a worn example as this card is and can look more brownish (ie dirty brownish gray) with wear. (I agree this card is a true Brown one though)
its so slight a color variation its not on everyones back 'type' list. I cant tell you how many (dozens of) threads/questions ive read over last 30 years on "Is this a Brown Back OM????? its not like the obvious differences between the red and brown Hindu cards or red/black/blue E92 CloseCandy's etc.....
funny that PSA didnt note it on flip, yet mention its supposedly 'trimmed' when if it is trimmed it was not trimmed to deceive (sharpen corners)...
bottom line...... a brown back T206 OM SL card is not rare, its only rare within the T206 group... T206 cards are the most common preWar vintage baseball card 'type' of all time!
this Brown OM is NOT a rare 'typecard' overall within the vintage baseball card hobby, not even close, but there is ALWAYS going to be demand from the fatwallet guys solely addicted to the common T206 cards looking for a back type set w/ all variations .
a real T206 double OP brown OM SL card (w/red SC overprints, thus a printers scrap in reality, and also overrated IMO)
<< <i>Why didn't the consignor put in a safety bid? >>
Why didn't you?
<< <i>The hammer price may have been 1/200 of the card's value, but at least the auction didn't have some dude's foot in the picture. >>
Indeed. Yet another positive for this listing.
Always buying Bobby Cox inserts. PM me.
<< <i>Maurice, you're confusing a marketing blurb with auction house rules. >>
Negligence is defined as failure to use reasonable care, resulting in damage or injury to another.
When a company that markets itself as "one of the finest brokers of both vintage and modern graded sportscards" is paid to auction a sports card, and then fails to identify a significant variation when listing it, reasonable care was not exercised. As a result, the person that consigned the sports card was damaged to the tune of thousands of dollars.
How is this not a textbook example of negligence?