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Thread Title: 1972 Topps Venezuelan
Created On Wednesday November 28, 2012 5:11 AM
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sschauer513
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Wednesday November 28, 2012 5:11 AM

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I was wondering if anyone has noticed font differences in this set see the photos below. There has been a distinct increase of these hitting the market and always had a feeling they might not be totally legit but might also just be printing in Venezuela wasn't an exact science or 2 different runs/plants. But there is clearly a difference in font and in general I think ones on the right are real and the ones on the left are the newer/2nd printing. So do I now have to get both variations for a master set? Only other difference I saw is left and right borders are thicker on the ones on the right.






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llafoe
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Wednesday November 28, 2012 5:51 AM

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Definitely different...

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CDsNuts
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Wednesday November 28, 2012 6:34 AM

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Definitely different...


Sharp eye.

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larryallen73
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Wednesday November 28, 2012 8:17 AM

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<< Definitely different...


Sharp eye.
>>



Maybe he slept at a Holiday Inn Express last night!?

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swartz1
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Wednesday November 28, 2012 8:21 AM

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yikes....

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JHS5120
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Wednesday November 28, 2012 8:26 AM

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What type of paper sotck are these made of? Is it possible that these are counterfeits?

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sschauer513
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Wednesday November 28, 2012 10:18 AM

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<< What type of paper stock are these made of? Is it possible that these are counterfeits? >>



I think it is very possible I don't have 2 to compare side by side just scans but from ones I've seen the newer are on thinner stock. I would be interested to know if anyone has a unknown non superstar player on "newer" stock or if someone has had the "newer" stock for a very long time pre2000's. Also noticed some of the "newer" stock have printed cut lines on the borders.

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DavidPuddy
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Wednesday November 28, 2012 10:48 AM

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Here's scans of all the 72 Ven's I own. All have been picked up in the last 3 years.







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BaltimoreYankee
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Wednesday November 28, 2012 10:55 AM

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Totally not an expert here but the cards I've seen coming out of Venezuela were nowhere near as white and nice looking as the ones shown in this thread that have a bolder typeface on the name.

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QUITCRAB
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Wednesday November 28, 2012 11:05 AM

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A761506
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Wednesday November 28, 2012 1:13 PM

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There were two different printers used in the production of the 1972 Venz cards. Both of those cards are authentic. Whether the set was even licensed and legitimate in the first place is another story, but those are both original cards.

I recently saw a couple cards that someone believed from this set or a similar issue - they had blue backgrounds and the examples I saw were of Clemente (who isn't even in the 72 Venz issue) and a Rose with a completely different picture on it. They were fantasy cards. The font used wasn't even possible because it didn't exist in 1972.

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sschauer513
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Wednesday November 28, 2012 1:18 PM

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<< There were two different printers used in the production of the 1972 Venz cards. Both of those cards are authentic. Whether the set was even licensed and legitimate in the first place is another story, but those are both original cards. >>



Can you expand on this how do you know 2 were used and didn't topps produce them?


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Maurice
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Thursday November 29, 2012 5:04 AM

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<< There were two different printers used in the production of the 1972 Venz cards. >>



I'd also like to know where you obtained this info.

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flatfoot816
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Thursday November 29, 2012 5:59 AM

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if anyone has a Yaz Venz stamp, please pm me

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A761506
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Thursday November 29, 2012 8:09 AM

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All of my Venezuela information comes straight from a combination of sources I have and/or have had in Venezuela over the past decade+ that I have been collecting Venezuelan cards.

Any information I have I always verify with another source before I consider it to be valid. At least two of my contacts have verified that there were issues with the printer in 1972 and a secondary printer was used. Since text was not printed in the same manner as an image (images were printed using a halftone process, while black text was printed in solid ink as a separate process), font faces before the development of the home computer were extremely limited, so while one printer had a certain one, another had one that was similar but not identical.

These cards were never printed by Topps. It is highly likely that they were unlicensed and the images were simply stolen and copied.

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sschauer513
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Thursday November 29, 2012 1:38 PM

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<< All of my Venezuela information comes straight from a combination of sources I have and/or have had in Venezuela over the past decade+ that I have been collecting Venezuelan cards.

Any information I have I always verify with another source before I consider it to be valid. At least two of my contacts have verified that there were issues with the printer in 1972 and a secondary printer was used. Since text was not printed in the same manner as an image (images were printed using a halftone process, while black text was printed in solid ink as a separate process), font faces before the development of the home computer were extremely limited, so while one printer had a certain one, another had one that was similar but not identical.

These cards were never printed by Topps. It is highly likely that they were unlicensed and the images were simply stolen and copied.
>>



Interesting that does explain it well figured since the cropping on the photos were exact on each copy more likely there was 2 printings looks like the original 1st printing didn't last long as those are the tougher ones to find.

Have you ever seen the album for 72 be interesting if there is any mention of topps in it. I have this scan of a 72 album but I don't think it goes with these but might be wrong.


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mikeschmidt
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Thursday November 29, 2012 3:08 PM

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That album you've pictured was used for the 1972 Puerto Rican Winter League stickers, which features, among others:

First cards of Goose Gossage and Mike Schmidt

Satchel Paige and some other NL Hof'ers

It's a great looking sticker set -- but from Puerto Rico, not Venezuela

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Maurice
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Thursday November 29, 2012 5:01 PM

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If the Tony Oliva cards were scanned together, as they appear to have been, then there is also a problem with image quality. The Oliva image on the left is blurry in comparison to the Oliva image on the right.

So there's a different font, much brighter borders and a blurry and less detailed image. There is also a much larger availability in higher grade and these have only been seen in the marketplace in recent years. Additionally, most if not all of these have been brought to the market by an unknown seller.

I call BS on A761506's "info" about 2 printers in 1972 and believe they are very likely counterfeit.

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Maurice
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Thursday November 29, 2012 5:05 PM

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sschauer513
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Thursday November 29, 2012 5:30 PM

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I'm still on the fence but has anyone had the "newer" version pre 2000 that would push me to the 2 printing plants? Does still sit odd with me that the "newer" ones are generally in better condition, not glued on the back, and generally blurrier image. I am working on getting multiple versions and see what they look like under a loupe for one and paper quality.

Edited: Thursday November 29, 2012 at 5:31 PM by sschauer513

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