What killed the local card show?

DCanfield · September 2, 2012 8:15AM

I was thinking back 20 years ago to the monthly card shows hosted by Ed Keetz at the Polish Community Center in Albany, NY. 110 tables with about 90 dealers selling everything from vintage cards to modern, old wax to the latest issue, supplies, memorabilia, and probably an autograph guest to boot! From 9 AM to 3 PM the crowds were huge. Fast forward 20 years and look at today's shows around the country. First, you're lucky if you even have a show and if you do, it's probably nothing to write home about.
So what killed the shows. Too high production runs of cards? Too many different products? Too many subsets/inserts/chrome platinum gizmos? Speculators rather than collectors? Price of product not allowing some collectors the ability to collect it? Professional sports leagues requiring too many $$ from manufacturers leading to overproduction and high prices in order to turn a profit? Unknowledgeable or greedy dealers driving off collectors? Fraud (like fake autographs or doctored cards)?

Is it my age that makes me say I sure miss the good old days?

I'm interested to hear your opinions.

cardsfan73 · September 2, 2012 8:13AM

All of the things you mentioned and Ebay.

spazzy · September 2, 2012 8:26AM

I believe that we all killed the shows. There are many collectors out there who can give quality stuff at the shows but many of us used EBAY to purchase putting folks out of business. The dealers at the shows overpriced their stuff and people went other places. As a side note, the few shows that I have attended this year (even in the malls) has had more folks selling vintage stuff and it seems the prices are more reasonable, maybe there is an upswing...The best advise I can give is to attend these shows. they are not dead yet...support your local shows

al032184 · September 2, 2012 8:28AM

I haven't been to a card show since I was 14-15 years old, around 2000. I remember the last show I went to, it was at the Granite Run Mall, they had a show there about 4-5 times a year. I went with a group of friends, and at almost every table we were getting the stare down, like we were going to steal something. A number of the dealers told us not to touch their stuff and get lost. Maybe it was just because we were a group of teenagers, maybe it was because the dealers were asshats. I remember the atmosphere being very family/child-unfriendly at some of the last shows I went to.

Dboneesq · September 2, 2012 8:41AM

Doug ... I have to think that the Internet in general and ebay more specifically is the biggest reason. When I got back into collecting at the age of ~25 (1983 or so), the only place you could get stuff was at the Saturday/Sunday shows and some local card shops. Man, I do miss those days of going from show to show (sometimes 2 or 3) on a Saturday or Sunday and putting together my '67 baseball set card by card!

davelinkbelt · September 2, 2012 9:40AM

#1 Internet auctions.
#2 Overproduction.
#3 1994 baseball strike has to play a role somewhere in all of this.

olb31 · September 2, 2012 9:57AM

ebay!! i find it more satisfying than any show. more inventory and usually better prices. i went to the national this year and have a better time searching on ebay.

bigjed · September 2, 2012 11:37AM

I won't lie. It is far easier to shell out $100 for a card on ebay and pay via credit card than it is to fork over $100 cash.

Ironmanfan · September 2, 2012 11:39AM

IMF

llafoe · September 2, 2012 11:52AM

Mr. Green in the Shopping Mall with the Candlestick?

PowderedH2O · September 2, 2012 11:54AM

At least half of the dealers I met treated me like crap at shows. At least 75 percent of the customers at shows were people I didn't wish to be in the same room with. I prefer the internet. I shed not a tear for the local card show...

Cumberland · September 2, 2012 12:16PM

I think the reported death of the card show is premature. I've been going to shows since 1979 and I still go -- every weekend. Sure, most of the shows I used to go to are gone but there are plenty of others still out there along with many new ones. Admittedly, each show is not always good but I go any way because I've learned that what was a bad show one weekend can be an excellent show the following weekend. No show is ever the same. I live in the Chicago area and regularly go to shows in Orland Park, Schaumburg and Bloomingdale, Illinois. I also go to a show or two every month up in Milwaukee. I've started venturing out even further this past year and found the great show at the Two Hearts Banquet Hall in St. Louis, along with the monthly Nutter Center show in Dayton, OH, and Jane Bosley's show in Canton, OH. I'm also planning on hitting shows in Minnesota and Iowa in the near future. I'm still having a blast going to shows. There's plenty of people still out there buying and selling cards the old fashioned way.

Hallco · September 2, 2012 12:27PM

DCanfield · September 2, 2012 12:32PM

I must agree that internet card sales including ebay are probably the #1 reason for the demise of the card show. At first I was surprised to hear the negative comments about shows but after giving it some thought I think I know why my perception was different. I was in my upper 30's, taking my young son, when I started to re-introduce myself to the hobby and attend card shows. Of course dealers would treat me different than a 12 year old. With me they were less worried about theft and they assumed I had the means to afford what they had to sell.

The internet has put the items we desire at our fingertips. The quest is much easier. In that respect I must agree with the comments made. I think I miss the camaraderie and talking hobby that was present 20+ years ago. I certainly miss the players that I got to spend some time with during those autograph sessions. I know getting to meet some of the CU board members at this years National reminded me of those days gone by.

Thanks everyone for the comments!

Doug

Reljac · September 2, 2012 11:27PM

<< All of the things you mentioned and Ebay. >>

yep, most local shows I went to back in the day were a bunch of small time dealers with rip off prices, no way they could continue to sell with ebay as an option.

bobbyw8469 · September 2, 2012 11:49PM

My local card show. Dealer had a Jim Brown rookie, that was gonna be a PSA 1, no question about it. I asked him how much - he stated '$500', but I can work with you. At that price, we were too far off. Any price I offered was gonna be an insult to him, and there was no denying what the card was going to grade. That scenario give you a good idea what has ruined the local card show.

fiveniner · September 3, 2012 12:54AM

<< Doug ... I have to think that the Internet in general and ebay more specifically is the biggest reason. When I got back into collecting at the age of ~25 (1983 or so), the only place you could get stuff was at the Saturday/Sunday shows and some local card shops. Man, I do miss those days of going from show to show (sometimes 2 or 3) on a Saturday or Sunday and putting together my '67 baseball set card by card! >>

As George Kell would tell Al Kaline on the Tiger Telecasts "Doug Youre sooo Ryte!!!

Probstein123 · September 3, 2012 12:58AM

internet

1960toppsguy · September 3, 2012 1:06AM

Agree with PowderedH2O

NSibian · September 3, 2012 1:34AM

Just a matter of time before Curt Schilling kills the internet sales.

bobbyw8469 · September 3, 2012 2:49AM

If you are worried about that, then you really should stop being cheap, join VCP and a nice sniping program like bidnip.

TheTalkingWalnut · September 3, 2012 3:09AM

It sounds like there was a rude sarcastic Comic Book Guy character in every town - there were a couple in mine.

bobbyw8469 · September 3, 2012 3:20AM

NSibian · September 3, 2012 3:49AM

<< If you are worried about that, then you really should stop being cheap, join VCP and a nice sniping program like bidnip. >>

I'm too concerned right now with getting a booger off my GAI slab.

sportscardtheory · September 3, 2012 4:03AM

Killed implies that they no longer exist. Negatively affected is a better sentiment. But it's the internet. That is the only answer.

spazzy · September 3, 2012 7:01AM

<< My local card show. Dealer had a Jim Brown rookie, that was gonna be a PSA 1, no question about it. I asked him how much - he stated '$500', but I can work with you. At that price, we were too far off. Any price I offered was gonna be an insult to him, and there was no denying what the card was going to grade. That scenario give you a good idea what has ruined the local card show. >>

You see the same thing on ebay with Buy it Nows. There is good and bad all over.

bobbyw8469 · September 3, 2012 7:16AM

<< I'm too concerned right now with getting a booger off my GAI slab. >>

Then I suggest you sell it on Ebay for 99 cents and then complain that someone dinged your shipping stars because you shipped it in a PWE.

DCanfield · September 3, 2012 9:00AM

<< Killed implies that they no longer exist. Negatively affected is a better sentiment. But it's the internet. That is the only answer. >>

That's the point, most of them don't exist any more including the one I referenced. 110 tables, 90 dealers and poof, gone! Those few that remain have probably been "negatively affected".

JMDVM · September 3, 2012 1:44PM

The internet

PSASAP · September 3, 2012 2:20PM

Third party grading companies probably contributed to the decrease in local card shows. Increased costs associated with slabbing meant that dealers had to charge more for cards, thereby pricing out the casual collector.

handyman · September 3, 2012 2:38PM

Im going with over produced product and several issues from the same year. A million 1/1s of a million players. As someone who collects in this hobby. The current product is anoying to me.

byronscott4ever · September 4, 2012 12:11AM

Internet for sure, but also promoters of shows. Too many shows are done by the same people so it's the same location, same dealers, etc. If I go to a show and contemplate a card purchase, chances are if I'm not sure I won't buy it if I know the dealer will have the same card at the next show too. I try to skip some shows just to break up the "same old, same old" routine. If they have a free autograph signer, I'll definitely go no matter what or if the show is close to home that's a plus too.

Stooge · September 4, 2012 1:14AM

There is a local show this w/e at the mall. I will be going on Friday, if not just to see what they are selling. They will probably have about 10 tables, but so what, I like to look.

Paul.

jwgators · September 4, 2012 1:23AM

Competition... aka the internet.

Once upon a time, the local card show dealers only had to compete with like 5-10 other dealers. Now everyone is a dealer with the advance on eBay and the like, and bloated prices for VG Joe Montana rookies don't fly.

mtcards · September 4, 2012 2:44AM

The internet is the only answer

Yes, there were always people who wanted too much for their cards, but there is now too...ON the internet.

I've used this example before, but in my line of business, we sell the same thing that online people do, but we sell it for less. The problem is, people are too lazy sometimes to get up off their butt and drive 2 miles to my store to see that they can save 10-20% or more for the same item, plus save on shipping in some cases. They would prefer to sit at home and buy the merchandise while drinking the slimfast and eating the large pepperoni pizza.

Problem is, nothing will change, in fact, it will only get worse in terms of local card shows. I havent been to a show in 5 years and the internet is the main reason and yes, I love my pizza, but in the end, unless there is something rare that you cannot find on the internet, shows are going to be gone pretty soon as will a lot of businesses. The worse problem is that when people buy on the internet instead of locally, they lose part of the money from their community and then in a round-a-bout way, have to pay more in taxes.

I can understand buying an item for $20 online, that it would cost $50 locally, but what about the $10 online item that costs $10.25 locally?

esquiresports · September 4, 2012 5:09AM

Coming at it from the supply (dealer) side of it, it was a real pain to load up the car/van with cards, display cases, etc., haul everything in, get it all set up nicely, and then reverse the process several hours later. Being able to sell online made not just consumers', but also dealers', lives easier.

I believe we should also note the widespread acceptance of, and preference for, graded cards greatly boosting internet selling. If raw cards were still the norm, then card shows may have maintained much of their appeal.

cardsnbeads · September 4, 2012 7:06AM

Cards shows stared dying with the Baseball strike in 1994. The golden age of the show was 1988-1992. The card shows went away probably about early 2000's when the internet made cards obsolete. The Internet has been terrific for Card Buyers, Card Sellers not so much.

Cakes · September 4, 2012 7:58AM

<< My local card show. Dealer had a Jim Brown rookie, that was gonna be a PSA 1, no question about it. I asked him how much - he stated '$500', but I can work with you. At that price, we were too far off. Any price I offered was gonna be an insult to him, and there was no denying what the card was going to grade. That scenario give you a good idea what has ruined the local card show. >>

That did it for me. When I look back at least half of the stuff that I bought raw at shows from the ages of 10 to 16 was either badly misscut or poorly centered.

Luckily my local card shop guy sold me some nice stuff when I was a kid.

PSASAP · September 4, 2012 11:57AM

I don't know the answer to that question, but I do know that video killed the radio star.

jmmiller777 · September 4, 2012 1:04PM

I live in San Antonio, TX, the 7th largest city in the US. We have two card shops and maybe 2-3 rinky-dink shows just north of town. I sure wish we could get a couple of nice shows here.
The top twp reasons I would pick for the death of the card shows are: the internet and over-production. Of course Pete Rose has to take some blame...

jmmiller777 · September 4, 2012 1:14PM

One more thing I want to say; I don't think that graded cards have hurt anything, it just has the effect of setting prices nationally. I wish I had more shops available, two in a city of 2 million is pathetic. Also, they are both over 15 miles away, not really readily available for a quick after work trip.

JasonM32 · September 4, 2012 5:29PM

The internet killed the local card show for most but let me tell you what killed it for me.

When I was a kind in the 80's I tried to get every single card made of my favorite players. As you all know, eventually card manufacturers flooded the market with products rendering most of the cards worthless. Later they came up with the idea of parallels, and 1/1's trying to create some imaginary value. My goal was no longer possible and I could tell that I was being played for a fool. When they started chopping up alleged "game worn" jerseys into little pieces I'd had enough and quit collecting.

Years later I discovered psacard.com. They had a lot of options for collecting sets like rookie sets and basic sets. Having something sane and attainable to shoot for got me back in the mood to collect. Collecting graded cards has it's ups and downs too but it's something I really enjoy.

cardsnbeads · September 4, 2012 6:23PM

I used to live in Orlando and my 2 favorite card shops closed. There is maybe a couple shops in the Orlando area and no card shows anymore

MinorLeaguer · September 6, 2012 1:58AM

I am serious and not a troll nor an anti-semite for what I'm about to say. Trouble finds me, that's all :-):

Around 1988-1993 I used to go to all the local card shows on Long Island/NYC and Northern NJ. There used to be a somewhat regular monthly show on Long Island at Temple Beth El on Jeruselem Ave. in Massapequa. Every dealer was 300lb.+ and were always slurping up their super-sized bacon, egg and cheese on bagels with ketchup along with a huge Hershey's chocolate milk with the grease all over their faces and fat fingers. I bought some top-loaders and went out to make a phone call at a pay phone on the street. (pre-cell phone days!) The top-loaders were in a brown lunch-sized paper bag. When I came back in, I was walking in the main corridor when this lady walks up to me with a scowl and without a word, rips the bag out of my hand, yelling at me how dare I bring in a non-kosher sandwich into her holy temple. Upon her tearing the bag open to find packs of 25 count clear plastic Top-Loaders, she handed it back to me, her nose up, never apologizing. I was like 20 then so I wasn't as quick witted or as much of a smart ass as I am now to rebut her with a good tongue lashing! I was humiliated and never went back to that show again.

Fast forward to this year. I went to my first show in almost 20 years at the greater Philly Convention Center in Oaks, PA. I was looking to buy Card Saver I's for PSA submissions. There was only one dealer there specializing in cases, pocket sheets, bat tubes, etc. He only had Ultra-Pro where on the box it says you can use for "grading submissions". It didn't specify a grading company. I politely asked if these would be acceptable to PSA because PSA states to use a Card Saver I. He screams at me "SAME THING!!!!!". I asked, "Are you sure PSA will accept them?", He screams back "ULTRA PRO AND CARD SAVERS ARE MADE BY THE SAME F'N COMPANY IN CHINA!!!!!!!" I turned around and left. I'll continue to buy them online.

To me, horrible service and rudeness killed the local card show.

edwardluger4 · September 6, 2012 3:00AM

I agree the two things most of you say, The Internet and terrible customer service. I always wondered why this industry seems to have such horrible customer service in person. All of you guys I have ever dealt with on this board or the blowout cards board and even 98% percent of the people on Ebay have always been awesome to deal with. Also, my two LCS that I frequent have great customer service skills and actually make going there fun not only for me, but also my 5 year old who is going to be the future collectors in this industry, but most of the rest of the "dealers" I deal with in person suck at life, not just customer service.

I went to a different shop the other day that happened to be at a mall we were at, and while they had some great prices on new wax, the fat bastage that was working never once said hi or got off his butt to assist my son and I. So while my son was asking to buy some football/hockey cards, I had to tell him we would wait until the next day because we aren't going to provide any business to someone who can't even acknowledge that we were there.

CDsNuts · September 6, 2012 3:19AM

bobbyw

Mickey71 · September 6, 2012 3:49AM

The internet killed the card show......but only because of grading. If the internet only sold raw I would not buy very much as 95% of raw on EBAY is overgraded. Grading has not helped or hurt the show scene. In person with a knowledgable and patient collector the dealer doesn't really have any advantage with graded cards.

As to the obese dealers of 15 years ago............this is very sad..........but very true. The rudeness, pricing and grading of their EX cards as NM was really junky.

As to card shops with horrible customer service....this is sad.........but also very true. Most of the owners know they have a bunch of junk VG-EX cards that they know will not sell so in turn they don't even want to bend over to get the cards out of the glass cases for their customers. I hate to see the big glass cases that require a serious stretch and bend/reach to get to the cards........and the owner is about 70 years old or 375 LBS.

If dealers/collectors wanted to get together and do shows they could. They are just choosing to not do it.

Mickey71

Brianruns10 · September 6, 2012 10:40AM

What killed them for me was dealer after dealer that either dealt only in the new crap, and when they deal in vintage, it is all beat to hell PO junk that they ask EX to EX-MT prices for.

In all the area shows I've gone to, I've only encountered two dealers that dealt in quality, vintage goods and knew how to negotiate.

Not to mention, a lot of the guys I see selling look as if they are barely able to take care of themselves. They don't seem passionate about anything, they're unpleasant to deal with, and they just don't exude the love of the hobby.

zendude · September 6, 2012 2:04PM

I too was disgusted by the sight of these obese middle-aged men at card shows who barely made an effort to acknowlege me. (they always seemed to be gorging themselves on nachos or hotdogs). I never understood how guys could set up at a show to meet and greet the public and sell their stuff and yet have such horrible customer service and people skills.

Yankees001 · September 7, 2012 3:26AM

Internet, just better prices and selection.

Dave

JasonM32 · September 7, 2012 8:38AM

I met some cool dealers over the years at shows but overwhelmingly these guys were jerks. They were always doing something else other than watching their tables. They rarely acknowledged the customers. When they did they were usually hostile. You could always hear them complaining about various things. They were often asking gem mint prices for off-centered cards with soft corners.

As a collector I'm thankfull for the internet because it allows me to get full market value when I choose to sell a card. I have access to millions of potential customers and I don't have to sell my cards to local dealers for peniies on the dollar.

What killed the local card show?

Comments