Is it me or is something not right with this card? NEW card added (same seller).

artistlost · January 10, 2012 3:01AM

It looks like the card on the left has better centering...I have made it so that both cards measure the same size....

what do you think?

mathew

CNote · January 10, 2012 3:03AM

<< It looks like the card on the left has better centering...I have made it so that both cards measure the same size....

what do you think?

mathew >>

You're right. That's totally Kurt Russel.

artistlost · January 10, 2012 3:12AM

Other than being Kurt Russell...does it look like someone added to the right boarder and took a bit off the left to the card on the left?

mike22y2k · January 10, 2012 3:27AM

Even though the cert#'s are the same the cards look like they are not the same card. The lighting on the card on the right is deceiving. Even looks like the card on the right is curved giving the card an appearance of being off centered.

PowderedH2O · January 10, 2012 4:12AM

I agree. They don't appear to be the same card.

artistlost · January 10, 2012 4:19AM

I bought the card on the left and it was the card on the right that just arrived. No sign of tampering with the case and it looks legit in the holder having it in hand. I like the card I have but paid a premium for the card as it was sold as being centered 50/50 and the picture shown was the one on the left...

sportscardtheory · January 10, 2012 4:24AM

Different scanners and types of scans make for different looking scans of the same items. The settings are different, the card is positioned differently in the PSA case and the scanner is clearly different. I have seen far worse mirages created by scans.

mlbfan2 · January 10, 2012 4:39AM

Maybe it's from the scanner, but I see 3 of the same dots on each card (near the upper right corner, above the "e" in "center", and near his left shoulder).

bking · January 10, 2012 4:41AM

<< Maybe it's from the scanner, but I see 3 of the same dots on each card (near the upper right corner, above the "e" in "center", and near his left shoulder). >>

Good catch; I can see those too, and I'm bad at spotting such small dots.

1980scollector · January 10, 2012 5:01AM

I see a small print dot in the S on the left card that I cannot see in the right.

The top to bottom looks different as well.

To me they are different cards.

aconte · January 10, 2012 5:10AM

The left to right centering looks different.

aconte

digicat · January 10, 2012 5:32AM

What's going on with the bottom part of the PSA label on the right hand card?

I used photoshop to overlay one card on top of the other (using fixed points in the picture to sync the images) and it's clear that the left and right borders don't match on the two cards.

Is someone doctoring scans?

jay0791 · January 10, 2012 5:46AM

Mathew

The card is in the case but has the plastic between card and case.
this allows the card to move around much more than in a case. maybe due to size (over).
There is a change due to ths depending on how the scanner (also settings to enhance image) light hits card.

The marks on the case itself match up as well as a few print spots.

Same card IMO

nice BTW

digicat · January 10, 2012 6:11AM

<< here is a change due to ths depending on how the scanner (also settings to enhance image) light hits card. >>

The card on the left measures 57/43. The card on the right measures 64/36.

I don't see how standard scanner variation would account for this.

It's not hard to doctor a scan. I did this in a few seconds: (card on the left is the REAL card)

Garabaldi · January 10, 2012 6:19AM

Well...that is scary.

54topps · January 10, 2012 6:45AM

<< Well...that is scary. >>

+1 for that. I did not think any one would do such a thing.

Mathew,
If the seller said the card was 50/50 you should send it back.

kgibson · January 10, 2012 7:04AM

<< Well...that is scary. >>

+2

Maybe we should let each other know of seller's that are doing this.

artistlost · January 10, 2012 7:08AM

Did some digging and came up with this. I bought this card from the same seller and never checked the image sent to the card I received until now.

The picture on the left is was provided to me before buying and the card on the right is the card I have in hand. And yes the cert number is covered up but it is the same.

mathew

MeteoriteGuy · January 10, 2012 7:15AM

One time might be an error, or scanner fluke...although the card described and shown as 50/50...and not in hand is questionable. Two times, I think photo work is being done.

artistlost · January 10, 2012 7:17AM

Here is a better scan of the Dionne.

ThoseBackPages · January 10, 2012 7:19AM

holy crap! this is actually frightening.

sportscardtheory · January 10, 2012 7:31AM

Don't buy from that seller again, that's for sure. You should let everyone know who it is as well so no one else gets suckered into buying a card that's scan is doctored.

sportscardtheory · January 10, 2012 7:34AM

Isn't there software that can spot whether a picture or scan has been photoshopped? Now when looking more closely at the "original" Dionne scan, you can kind of see some strangeness going on in the white areas. Seems like this guy is literally moving the middle parts of cards just enough to warrant higher sales for better centered cards.

digicat · January 10, 2012 8:20AM

<< Isn't there software that can spot whether a picture or scan has been photoshopped? >>

It's tricky, but you CAN do it by using Photoshop and messing with a bunch of different settings, like gamma, exposure, etc. Those things will help "exaggerate" any irregularities.

This just catches the sloppy jobs, though.

BunchOBull · January 10, 2012 8:30AM

If you invert the colors and zoom in, there is an obvious seam where the card has been doctored.

CW · January 10, 2012 8:43AM

Yes, I would agree that this seller needs to be both outed here
and confronted via email about this immediately.

jeffcbay · January 10, 2012 8:49AM

Wait... is this an ebay seller or a member of this forum?

vladguerrero · January 10, 2012 8:53AM

ebay, sucks to have done an off ebay deal on the card though

EagleEyeKid · January 10, 2012 8:53AM

Looks like the deal was done outside of ebay.

The auction

digicat · January 10, 2012 9:00AM

<< If you invert the colors and zoom in, there is an obvious seam where the card has been doctored. >>

Can't just go by that though, you can see a similar jpeg artifact on the bottom edge of the OP's "in-hand" scan.

brendanb438 · January 10, 2012 9:34AM

<< 

<< If you invert the colors and zoom in, there is an obvious seam where the card has been doctored. >>

Can't just go by that though, you can see a similar jpeg artifact on the bottom edge of the OP's "in-hand" scan. >>

Yeah I gave my wife the two images (she is a Graphic Designer/ Webpage Designer) and she did some things with them with her Mac and with her Adobe software. The picture he gave you has been doctored to make it look better centered. Overlaying the two cards they do not match up. She says he did a damn good job though, really really hard to see what he did. Whoever is doing this has some experience with manipulating images.

chadridge · January 10, 2012 10:04AM

Wonderful, another reason to be afraid of buying on Ebay. It sounds silly now, but this type of manipulation never really occured to me before. Pretty smart to make it a subtle difference, it's hard to spot and VERY hard to prove, I'm guessing 90%+ of buyers would likely not notice. Sort of defeats the "Buy the card, not the holder" concept unless you are vigilant to the end.

Nice job spotting this, and thanks for the heads up!

Chad

gemint · January 10, 2012 10:12AM

These forums have some of the best detectives in the business, hands down! Nice work.

CDsNuts · January 10, 2012 10:40AM

Wow that's shady as hell. I just did a measurement and I think he added 2 pixel columns on the right and removed 2 columns from the left.

gemint · January 10, 2012 11:09AM

<< Wow that's shady as hell. I just did a measurement and I think he added 2 pixel columns on the right and removed 2 columns from the left. >>

Get ready. I'm sure there will be sellers sharpening corners in Photoshop if they aren't already doing so.

vladguerrero · January 10, 2012 11:44AM

brendanb438 · January 10, 2012 1:19PM

<<

>>

Looks legit to me.

fkw · January 10, 2012 2:58PM

same cards
photoshoped scan in auction is what I see
good detective work

TonyC · January 10, 2012 9:27PM

This is a disturbing development. People buy graded cards because they think they "know" what they are getting vs. a raw card. No fault of the grading companies, just someone found a way to game the system.

This would be too labor intensive, and thus fees would have to go up, but this issue could be resolved if PSA loaded pictures of the cards when they left Newport Beach into their system so that if you plug in the cert #, it would show you the original picture.

hockeycrazy · January 10, 2012 9:38PM

If link above to Ebay auction is correct, seller is well known in hockey circles and was a member here for quite some time...

artistlost · January 10, 2012 11:23PM

<< If link above to Ebay auction is correct, seller is well known in hockey circles and was a member here for quite some time... >>

The ebay auction is correct. That is the seller being discussed.

artistlost · January 10, 2012 11:25PM

Edited as requested by a friend.

artistlost · January 10, 2012 11:27PM

I have bought a LOT of cards from this seller of the past and I do not have any of the other scans he provided to me to compare (at least none that I have been able to find yet). Very scary to think how much extra I paid him for "high end for the grade" cards.

mathew

TonyC · January 10, 2012 11:35PM

The well-centered scans all look sun-bleached, but the in-hand cards do not, lending more credence to the accusation that these photos have been doctored.

OAKESY25 · January 10, 2012 11:52PM

wow.. at first I was thinking they were two seperate cards.. never gave thought that it was a manipulated scan..
thats crazy

EagleEyeKid · January 10, 2012 11:58PM

So did you talk to the seller Mathew?
It's SNAD. Hope you get your money back.

bking · January 11, 2012 12:16AM

<< So did you talk to the seller Mathew?
It's SNAD. Hope you get your money back. >>

Do NOT SNAD this seller until you capture all the evidence and report it to Ebay. I bet those images go poof if he gets wind that he's been outed for altering.

digicat · January 20, 2012 7:49AM

Anything new about this issue?

Is it me or is something not right with this card? NEW card added (same seller).

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