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Topps Tiffany Question???
JAG85
Posts: 64 ✭
Any idea on the print runs for the different Topps Tiffany & Topps Tiffany Traded Sets? Any thoughts on their value compared to the regular issued Topps cards? Are they worth the extra money?
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Dave
Collecting Robin Ventura and Matt Luke.
anywho... JAG85 - here is what the Standard Catalog reports:
1984 - 10,000 sets
1985 - 5,000 sets
1986 - 5,000 sets
1987 - 30,000 sets
1988 - 25,000 sets
1989 - 25,000 sets
1990 - no print run given
1991 - no print run given, but "sets were produced in considerable more limited quantity than in previous years"
1984 traded - no print run given
1985 traded - no print run given
1986 traded - no print run given
1987 traded - 30,000 sets
1988 traded - no print run given
1989 traded - 15,000 sets
1990 traded - no print run given
1991 traded - no print run given, but "production levels slashed" has led to a perceived scarcity in the hobby.
Dodgers collection scans | Brett Butler registry | 1978 Dodgers - straight 9s, homie
Jacksoncoupage- It is not necessary, as I know the difference. Thanks for being a wise guy though. Is it just too hard for you to either be helpful or not say anything?
<< <i>They are nice cards but consider that they were sold as COMPLETE SETS, that completely reduces the appeal for me. >>
I felt that way in 1981 when Topps produced the boxed traded set, so I did not buy one at the time. The way the hobby evolved though with many different distribution methods, its kind of silly to still think that way - which I am sure most collectors no longer do. Many rookie cards over the past 20 years have only been available in factory sets and that has not reduced the value or appeal in any way. By the way, I now gladly own 12 of those 1981 Topps traded sets.
1984 - 10,000
1985 - 5,000
1986 - 5,000
1987 - 30,000
1988 - 25,000
1989 - 15 or 25,000
1990 - 15,000
1991 - 2-3000?
1984 traded - 10,000
1985 traded - 5,000
1986 traded - 5,000
1987 traded - 30,000
1988 traded - 25,000
1989 traded - 15,000
1990 traded - 15,000
1991 traded - 2-3000?
"Live everyday, don't throw it away"
<< <i>Just do a internet search for Topps Tiffany Print Run. All information is on the net and easy to find. OR buy a Sports Collectors Digest Standard Catalog of Baseball Cards.
Dave >>
douche
<< <i>TNP777- thank you for the info. It is appreciated.
Jacksoncoupage- It is not necessary, as I know the difference. Thanks for being a wise guy though. Is it just too hard for you to either be helpful or not say anything? >>
Not sure how wise I am, but I will say that I have seen enough "how do you tell the difference between tiffany and regular" threads on these boards to make a joke about it.
That said, everything you need to know about these sets was just minutes of research away - the Beckett annual for example. And there isn't any real shortage of "tiffany vs. regular Topps (value-wise)" discussions to dig up.
Oh, and welcome to the boards.
Collecting Robin Ventura and Matt Luke.
<< <i>J...... OR buy a Sports Collectors Digest Standard Catalog of Baseball Cards.
Dave >>
Don't have him buy the 2012 upcoming edition, it's going to stop at 1980
Bowman Baseball -1948-1955
Fleer Baseball-1923, 1959-2007
Al
<< <i>Not knowing the general background of "what's the difference" posts on here, but if you were new to the hobby and found a player checklist of someone you wanted to collect, I'm guessing Topps and Topps Tiffany are near each other in the list and with the same number, the logical question might be to wonder what the difference is between them. >>
Absolutely. But it's information that can be found very easily with a google search.
Collecting Robin Ventura and Matt Luke.
However, even if I only asked about print runs, why do you feel they need to make comments that are sarcastic and not helpful? Are you incapable of just moving to the next thread w/o being rude if you don't like a posted message? Obviously not.
BTW, Welcome to the boards
You raised a fair question. I had seen these figures before, but it was interesting to see them again.
Bowman Baseball -1948-1955
Fleer Baseball-1923, 1959-2007
Al
There are a lot of people who post sarcastic stuff, I suggest you just see through it and not be scared away. Most of them are just losers or total haters. There are a lot of jealous people and when all they have is a computer screen seperating them from you they talk a lot of smack they would never dream of saying to your face.
The reality of it is Tiffany versions of the Topps sets or Bowman are much more rare then their traditional pack counterparts and bring a large premium. There has been a trend higher in the past year for these in price and it has caught a lot of collectors attention.
If you are wanting to collect 80's or 90's baseball this is cleary your best bet as condition issues exist and more importantly the supply is drastically lower.
I am not one that thinks some major move higher is coming for 80's baseball but if it ever does Tiffany or Glossy sets are by far your best bet. There is money to be made if you buy raw or sealed and pull some high PSA grades so it is worth the gamble. I had some great luck with sealed Fleer Glossy and raw Tiffany buys.
<< <i>If Vladguerroro or Cdnuts post in your thread just don't pay any mind to their posts. They just like to be donkey butts.
There are a lot of people who post sarcastic stuff, I suggest you just see through it and not be scared away. Most of them are just losers or total haters. There are a lot of jealous people and when all they have is a computer screen seperating them from you they talk a lot of smack they would never dream of saying to your face.
The reality of it is Tiffany versions of the Topps sets or Bowman are much more rare then their traditional pack counterparts and bring a large premium. There has been a trend higher in the past year for these in price and it has caught a lot of collectors attention.
If you are wanting to collect 80's or 90's baseball this is cleary your best bet as condition issues exist and more importantly the supply is drastically lower.
I am not one that thinks some major move higher is coming for 80's baseball but if it ever does Tiffany or Glossy sets are by far your best bet. There is money to be made if you buy raw or sealed and pull some high PSA grades so it is worth the gamble. I had some great luck with sealed Fleer Glossy and raw Tiffany buys. >>
Perfectly said!! Welcome to the boards!
"Live everyday, don't throw it away"
I already had decent knowledge about Tiffany & Glossy cards, but was not sure about print runs. I was also trying to get some discussion on individual thoughts about the Tiffany cards as investments. Thanks for the thoughts/info you have provided. Look forward to more discussions.
God forbid somebody has fun on a message board; this is clearly serious business we're talking about here. Can we get back to discussing the truly important things in life, such as which wrestling magazine photo was used for a 1982 Billy Jack Haynes card that nobody cares about?
Regarding the topic at hand, Tiffany sets are fun but don't go overboard. The extra layer of gloss and factory set packaging virtually insures most cards will grade out at PSA 9 or higher. There are only a handful of truly tough Tiffany/Glossy cards and with the registry dying down there's no real point in grading a mid 80s George Brett that has a pop 12 in PSA 10. It's not a bad idea to buy the sets just to have them, but they hit their height in terms of premium 10 years ago and the pops have exploded on just about every decent card. The investment potential here is virtually nil (as is most stuff from 1984-1991), but they are fun cards to have in your collection.
There are a lot of people who post sarcastic stuff,
<< <i>There was much more to my post then just the print run numbers. I was actually looking to get various thoughts on regular topps vs. tiffany topps. Sure, I could have found the print runs by searching online, but as for thoughts/opinions, that is what message boards are intended for.
However, even if I only asked about print runs, why do you feel they need to make comments that are sarcastic and not helpful? Are you incapable of just moving to the next thread w/o being rude if you don't like a posted message? Obviously not. >>
I'm not sure if you are worked up about my jokey remark or if one of the other posts in this thread are what's bothering you. That said, I still see no reason to get upset at me pointing out the fact that the tiffany question comes up frequently on this and other card collecting boards, I've even joked in the past that it needs a "sticky" thread. To be honest, I click on 80's/90's and variation threads and don't just "skip past" them because I enjoy the subject and sharing information with collectors who are also interested in those sets, in fact, that's pretty much all I do on these boards: answer questions and share information based on research I have done myself. Your question(s) just happened to be something that I felt had been almost comically addressed ad nauseum.
I'm not interested in an "internet tough guy" role or "attention whoring" or whatever else you are suggesting, just making light of the fact that this topic comes up often and just about all you could possibly want to know could be found with quick research, especially considering your year of reading the boards before posting. I certainly wasn't upset by your post, just didn't realize that a little ribbing would invite such a drama. I'll keep it straight-talk from here on out, I guess.
Collecting Robin Ventura and Matt Luke.
<< <i>There are a lot of people who post sarcastic stuff
God forbid somebody has fun on a message board; this is clearly serious business we're talking about here. Can we get back to discussing the truly important things in life, such as which wrestling magazine photo was used for a 1982 Billy Jack Haynes card that nobody cares about?
Regarding the topic at hand, Tiffany sets are fun but don't go overboard. The extra layer of gloss and factory set packaging virtually insures most cards will grade out at PSA 9 or higher. There are only a handful of truly tough Tiffany/Glossy cards and with the registry dying down there's no real point in grading a mid 80s George Brett that has a pop 12 in PSA 10. It's not a bad idea to buy the sets just to have them, but they hit their height in terms of premium 10 years ago and the pops have exploded on just about every decent card. The investment potential here is virtually nil (as is most stuff from 1984-1991), but they are fun cards to have in your collection.
There are a lot of people who post sarcastic stuff, >>
IMO, you couldn't be more wrong on the investment potential. Regardless of the fact that they were in boxed sets, just like with most 1980s cards, centering still varies and the cuts were often rough. And even if they did ALL grade high, you are still talking about a total of only 3000 to 15,000 total copies of the Tiffany/Glossy rookie cards out there. Any other card from the 1960s through 1980s (and even most of the 1950s cards) are more plentiful and easier to find than these 1980s Tiffany cards. If these Tiffany cards do not go up in value in future years, then few other cards will, and this hobby has no future.
There are at least 10 times as many Nolan Ryan rookies out there as 1989 Topps Tiffany Randy Johnson cards. Yet a beat up Ryan rookie sells for over $100, while a nice, raw Tiffany Johnson only sells for $10 to $15.
Compare any HOF rookie card from the 1950s on up to just about any 1980s Tiffany/Glossy rookie, and you will find the same to be true as far as the availability and price differential.
It should be an eye opener to everyone in this hobby that it is easier to find a 1952 Mantle rookie in a low grade than it is to find a 1988 Score Glossy Tom Glavine rookie, for instance, in ANY grade.
edited to add:
Want a football example? There are probably close to 1 million mid to high grade 1982 Topps Lawrence Taylor rookies out there, while there is a total of only 3000 1990 Topps Tiffany Junior Seau rookies. Which would common sense tell you has more future potential?
Just in case though, I will hold onto my 51 to 1980 sets too
Bowman Baseball -1948-1955
Fleer Baseball-1923, 1959-2007
Al
There are at least 10 times as many Nolan Ryan rookies out there as 1989 Topps Tiffany Randy Johnson cards. Yet a beat up Ryan rookie sells for over $100, while a nice, raw Tiffany Johnson only sells for $10 to $15.
Compare any HOF rookie card from the 1950s on up to just about any 1980s Tiffany/Glossy rookie, and you will find the same to be true as far as the availability and price differential.
It should be an eye opener to everyone in this hobby that it is easier to find a 1952 Mantle rookie in a low grade than it is to find a 1988 Score Glossy Tom Glavine rookie, for instance, in ANY grade.
You're looking at this from a pure supply perspective; what you fail to realize is the potential for future demand isn't there. These cards experienced a huge boost while the big RCs were in their primes (Griffey, Bonds, Mcgwire, Clemens, etc...), and now interest in those guys has fizzled. The only way these sets go up is if in 15 years there is a Renaissance for these guys and I don't see that happening for the most part, especially since only a small handful are making the HOF (Maddux, Larkin, Glavine, Biggio, Griffey, Randy Johnson, Thomas, IRod, Chipper, and maybe missing one or two). The truth is these cards were only truly undervalued up until about 1998 and then exploded when people started hoarding Griffey, Bonds and McGwire RCs and realized how short the supply was. After that point they reached their true relative market value and to expect another significant increase in value relative to the rest of the hobby contradicts the history of how this hobby operates.
2 things going against these sets: 1) There are more than enough Tiffany cards going around for the people that want them except for maybe a handful of cards, and 2) You're dealing with the steroid era where a lot of the big RCs are of guys that are tainted and will never have the demand that their careers should warrant. You're talking about an era where people knew to keep cards and keep them in good condition. An era where dealers hoarded cases of wax and sets and there are probably hundreds of minty fresh Tiffany cases sitting in warehouses as we speak.
If these Tiffany cards do not go up in value in future years, then few other cards will, and this hobby has no future.
Almost nothing from 1984-1991 is going up in value except maybe a handful of cards, so if you're banking on that happening I suggest you find another way to invest your money.
Second, you keep talking about the fact that most of the Tiffany cards are preserved in nice condition. True. But you ignore the fact that there are still far fewer TOTAL copies of say a Tiffany/Glossy Tom Glavine or Randy Johnson rookie (NON STEROID PLAYERS!!!) than there are LOW GRADE rookies of say Carl Yastrzemski, Nolan Ryan, Steve Carlton, George Brett, Mike Schmidt, or insert your favorite 1960s rookie here:_________________.
The prices of those cards are currently out of whack by comparison to the Tiffany rookies.
There are also far fewer 1995 Finest Carlos Baerga Refractors than there are Michael Jordan Fleer rookies. What's your point? You're trying to insist there will be more demand for cards in the future that currently doesn't exist and never really has. The fact is there aren't 3000 people in the world that want a $100 Tom Glavine rookie, and to suggest it will be worth $300 at some point makes no sense.
(1) To counter my argument in which I compare rookie cards of HOF players to future HOF players, you try to use an insert card of Carlos Baerga.
(2) To try to counter my point about how low the production of the Tiffany sets was, you throw out the meaningless blanket statement that cards in general from 1984 to 1991 cards very over-produced.
(3) You argue against Tiffany cards because their value was higher at a point in the past ( in which the vast majority of rookie cards in general were at their peak due to the peak in the hobby)
(4) To argue against non-steroid players I am talking about, you bring in the steroid era users.
(5) To argue against my entire point of FUTURE value and demand, you talk about CURRENT demand.
Do you want to keep them coming??? This is hilarious!!
You are saying the market will readjust which doesn't make any sense. The production numbers are already out there and have been; for the most part the Tiffany cards bring about 10x what the regular counterparts bring (with a few exceptions like the Glavine). To think a new standard will occur in the future where the market adjusts a second time and they are worth 20x or more than the regular counterparts contradicts the history of how the hobby works. Once the hobby realizes the relative scarcity of an item, they don't forget about it and rediscover it years later. It's happened once I can think of with 93 Finest refractors.
The players aren't really the issue, unless you feel at some point the hobby will show more love to Glavine, Johnson or anybody else which is a different argument. Maybe a few of those guys will gain some steam at some point but you're more likely looking at a 25-50% increase at most for a half dozen cards, like what happened with Alomar when he got enshrined. If you are saying it's not a horrible idea to plunk down a chunk of change on 88 Score Traded Glossy Biggio's or 87 Topps Tiffany Traded Maddux's I probably wouldn't disagree with you. But if you're saying to go out and blanketly buy all Tiffany sets because they're all going up in value, I would say that's an irresponsible investment.
Bowman Baseball -1948-1955
Fleer Baseball-1923, 1959-2007
Al
Stated print runs of 3-15K no longer provides the appearance of scarcity like it used to
Today, scarcity means a 1/1, and for a collector chasing rarity, that's where their money is going
As far as the players in the sets, the level of interest in those guys is long gone as well. You might see some renewed interest in his Tiffany cards when a guy like Griffey makes the HOF, but there will still be more than enough raw, graded and complete sets to go around when that happens, so demand should never exceed supply in this case or others like it, and you'll still be able to obtain them for far lower prices than they were at 10 years ago
<< <i>The market for raw and graded Tiffany cards came and went
Stated print runs of 3-15K no longer provides the appearance of scarcity like it used to
Today, scarcity means a 1/1, and for a collector chasing rarity, that's where their money is going
As far as the players in the sets, the level of interest in those guys is long gone as well. You might see some renewed interest in his Tiffany cards when a guy like Griffey makes the HOF, but there will still be more than enough raw, graded and complete sets to go around when that happens, so demand should never exceed supply in this case or others like it, and you'll still be able to obtain them for far lower prices than they were at 10 years ago >>
So you are saying when Frank Thomas Tiffany rookie cards recently went from $10 raw and $40 in PSA 10, up to $35 raw and well over $200 in PSA 10......that really didn't happen. And nothing like it will ever happen again with any Tiffany card.
And 3000 to 15,000 copies is not rare enough to ever create any future collector interest and gain in value, but at the same time the 500,000+ George Brett rookies, or Mike Schmidt rookies, or Steve Carlton rookies are rare enough to maintain or even gain in value?
And people will continue to collect players like Pete Rose, Tom Seaver, Nolan Ryan, Steve Carlton, Reggie Jackson, etc. but all interest in future Hall of Famers like Randy Johnson, Tom Glavine and Frank Thomas will have no collector interest at all.
OK, genius, you know everything.