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I am now scared of "certified" modern autographed cards
frankhardy
Posts: 8,046 ✭✭✭✭✭
I frequent the message boards over at sportscollectors.net. The subject was brought up about certified autographed cards and whether or not you preferred them or just regular base cards that are autographed. As a side note, I prefer regular base cards (Topps) that are signed, but that's just me. After reading that particular thread, I definitely prefer regular base cards that are either TTM or signed in person. After talking about how most hate the sticker autos, take a look at this particular quote. This is an eye opener to me. I don't know why I was surprised, but I was.
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"The companies don't witness the signings and not all are signed by the players. I sat at a table doing a signing and happened to mention to the player the "certified" card of his I had seen that looked different from the items he was signing. He said 1 day a package arrived from the company of 500 cards with a note to please sign and return. He said he signed about 100 and his secretary at his business signed the rest....
Another time I went to a players room who was a friend of a friend. When we walked in there were 4 guys sitting around a table full of cards laughing. The player said they were sent to him by a company and they were all signing them and laughing about it.... He even invited us to "grab a stack and join in".
The companies do what we do... They send cards and money and ask for autographs and like us hope they are getting the real thing.
Think of this the next time you go to buy that $200 pack of 5 cards hoping to pull that elusive signature and end up with cards that book at $5 total..... "
***
"The companies don't witness the signings and not all are signed by the players. I sat at a table doing a signing and happened to mention to the player the "certified" card of his I had seen that looked different from the items he was signing. He said 1 day a package arrived from the company of 500 cards with a note to please sign and return. He said he signed about 100 and his secretary at his business signed the rest....
Another time I went to a players room who was a friend of a friend. When we walked in there were 4 guys sitting around a table full of cards laughing. The player said they were sent to him by a company and they were all signing them and laughing about it.... He even invited us to "grab a stack and join in".
The companies do what we do... They send cards and money and ask for autographs and like us hope they are getting the real thing.
Think of this the next time you go to buy that $200 pack of 5 cards hoping to pull that elusive signature and end up with cards that book at $5 total..... "
Shane
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<< <i>The companies do what we do... They send cards and money and ask for autographs and like us hope they are getting the real thing.
Think of this the next time you go to buy that $200 pack of 5 cards hoping to pull that elusive signature and end up with cards that book at $5 total..... " >>
Except these players are taking payment to provide this service and are under a contractual obligation. The companies do review cards for consistency, this story isn't new, and they are at the mercy of the players...
I work for a delivery company and made a pickup at a dropbox location and inside was a package that wasnt completly
sealed up. I got a roll of tape and I had noticed the package was from Dennis eckersley going to Upperdeck. I had to take
a look at what it was. It was a box of dual auto'd cards of him and someone else (cant remember who) numbered to 500.
There were also sheets and sheets of auto'd stickers.
I sealed it up and sent it on its way...
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Thanx for the report.
This has been debated for some time - I can't remember which player got busted for doing it - I believe it was a FB player?
It is sad - but I'll have to say - I don't think this is a major problem - but that's perhaps my naive outlook?
As it goes for TTM? I've heard many stories about players having their wives/girlfriends/secretaries etc. signing for them.
And the complaints of TTM'ers using 'stamped' signatures has been batted around as far as I can remember - there's a reference to stamped sigs in the Jan 14th 1994 SCD.
All and all - I hope the signing community can be trusted but as I've said on other issues...
who knows?
<< <i>I remember Phil Hughes on the Beckett boards showing all the stuff he got from UD to sign. He showed pics of it all before signing it and how they mailed it. I wish I had saved those pics. He could have had anyone sign all those cards and stickers if he had wanted. >>
I remember that.
Shane
<< <i>After reading that particular thread, I definitely prefer regular base cards that are either TTM or signed in person. >>
TTM is really no different than the "certified" autos in terms of credibility which is why I only collect in person autos.
<< <i>The Football Player was Errict Rhett, Running Back for Tampa. It was his girlfriend signing the 1994 Signature Rookies Cards. >>
They are probably worth more with his GF signature than his.
<< <i>
<< <i>After reading that particular thread, I definitely prefer regular base cards that are either TTM or signed in person. >>
TTM is really no different than the "certified" autos in terms of credibility which is why I only collect in person autos. >>
I see what you are saying, but I think there is a big difference. With TTM, the owner just BELIEVES it is authentic. With a certified auto, it is GUARANTEED authentic.
Shane
<< <i>The Football Player was Errict Rhett, Running Back for Tampa. It was his girlfriend signing the 1994 Signature Rookies Cards. >>
I was at an appearance for a Vikings player when this story hit and my friend and I were telling him about it. He said that any mail that didn't come from MN or NC (where we went to college) was signed by his mother. He even showed us how she signed his name and so I have all these legit variations of his signature as a result.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>After reading that particular thread, I definitely prefer regular base cards that are either TTM or signed in person. >>
TTM is really no different than the "certified" autos in terms of credibility which is why I only collect in person autos. >>
I see what you are saying, but I think there is a big difference. With TTM, the owner just BELIEVES it is authentic. With a certified auto, it is GUARANTEED authentic. >>
Shane - I see your point also. But "certified" and "guaranteed" don't necessarily mean the same thing. When Topps sends out sticker sheets to get signed they probably track the delivery and have some type of sign off at the end where the athlete claims to have signed everything, and probably some other steps along the way. If all these criteria are met (as loose as they may be) then it passes certification as defined by Topps.
In contrast, if you buy an Upper Deck Authenticated (UDA) piece (not their cards but pictures and memorabilia), they will in fact guarantee the piece as they witness all signings; or at least claim to; I wouldn't doubt it based on the small amount of athletes and price of their pieces. I know they started using some pen camera years ago where they actually record the signings as they're taking place. Realistically Topps could not witness all AUTOS for cards unless they could charge $1000+ per pack of cards to cover expesnes. I guess it's just a matter of you get what you pay for.
Let's think about this for a sec, Ted. Why would somebody put a guarantee on a box? Hmmm, very interesting.
Ted Nelson, Customer: Go on, I'm listening.
Tommy: Here's the way I see it, Ted. Guy puts a fancy guarantee on a box 'cause he wants you to feel all warm and toasty inside.
Ted Nelson, Customer: Yeah, makes a man feel good.
Tommy: 'Course it does. Why shouldn't it? Ya figure you put that little box under your pillow at night, the Guarantee Fairy might come by and leave a quarter, am I right, Ted?
[chuckles until he sees that Ted is not laughing]
Ted Nelson, Customer: [impatiently] What's your point?
Tommy: The point is, how do you know the fairy isn't a crazy glue sniffer? "Building model airplanes" says the little fairy; well, we're not buying it. He sneaks into your house once, that's all it takes. The next thing you know, there's money missing off the dresser, and your daughter's knocked up. I seen it a hundred times.
Ted Nelson, Customer: But why do they put a guarantee on the box?
Tommy: Because they know all they sold ya was a guaranteed piece of s&%t. That's all it is, isn't it? Hey, if you want me to take a dump in a box and mark it guaranteed, I will. I got spare time. But for now, for your customer's sake, for your daughter's sake, ya might wanna think about buying a quality product from me.
<< <i>I have to refer to the classic Tommyboy scene with Chris Farley on this one.
Let's think about this for a sec, Ted. Why would somebody put a guarantee on a box? Hmmm, very interesting.
Ted Nelson, Customer: Go on, I'm listening.
Tommy: Here's the way I see it, Ted. Guy puts a fancy guarantee on a box 'cause he wants you to feel all warm and toasty inside.
Ted Nelson, Customer: Yeah, makes a man feel good.
Tommy: 'Course it does. Why shouldn't it? Ya figure you put that little box under your pillow at night, the Guarantee Fairy might come by and leave a quarter, am I right, Ted?
[chuckles until he sees that Ted is not laughing]
Ted Nelson, Customer: [impatiently] What's your point?
Tommy: The point is, how do you know the fairy isn't a crazy glue sniffer? "Building model airplanes" says the little fairy; well, we're not buying it. He sneaks into your house once, that's all it takes. The next thing you know, there's money missing off the dresser, and your daughter's knocked up. I seen it a hundred times.
Ted Nelson, Customer: But why do they put a guarantee on the box?
Tommy: Because they know all they sold ya was a guaranteed piece of s&%t. That's all it is, isn't it? Hey, if you want me to take a dump in a box and mark it guaranteed, I will. I got spare time. But for now, for your customer's sake, for your daughter's sake, ya might wanna think about buying a quality product from me. >>
I love that movie!
"I have, what Doctors call, a little bit of a weight problem."
"Donuts tend to get lodged in this region - right...here."
Shane
Upper Deck sticker auto's say "This signature was signed in the presence of a company representative and/or sent from, and certified as to it's authenticity by <player's name>"
The new Donruss/Panini sticker auto's say "The attached autograph is guarenteed by Panini America, Inc."
So, Topps directly guarantees the authentically of their autographs.
Upper Deck says the player "certifies" the authenticity of the autograph.
Panini guarantees the autograph, though it doesn't specify what it is about the autograph that is being guaranteed.
WTB: 2001 Leaf Rookies & Stars Longevity: Ryan Jensen #/25
Nick
Reap the whirlwind.
Need to buy something for the wife or girlfriend? Check out Vintage Designer Clothing.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>After reading that particular thread, I definitely prefer regular base cards that are either TTM or signed in person. >>
TTM is really no different than the "certified" autos in terms of credibility which is why I only collect in person autos. >>
I see what you are saying, but I think there is a big difference. With TTM, the owner just BELIEVES it is authentic. With a certified auto, it is GUARANTEED authentic. >>
Shane - I see your point also. But "certified" and "guaranteed" don't necessarily mean the same thing. When Topps sends out sticker sheets to get signed they probably track the delivery and have some type of sign off at the end where the athlete claims to have signed everything, and probably some other steps along the way. If all these criteria are met (as loose as they may be) then it passes certification as defined by Topps.
In contrast, if you buy an Upper Deck Authenticated (UDA) piece (not their cards but pictures and memorabilia), they will in fact guarantee the piece as they witness all signings; or at least claim to; I wouldn't doubt it based on the small amount of athletes and price of their pieces. I know they started using some pen camera years ago where they actually record the signings as they're taking place. Realistically Topps could not witness all AUTOS for cards unless they could charge $1000+ per pack of cards to cover expesnes. I guess it's just a matter of you get what you pay for. >>
Do a little math about it. Assume the player will sign 2000 stickers in a day. How much do you think it costs to have a representative there for the day? Let's throw out a number of $400 for all expenses associated with having a rep there. That works out to a cost of 20 cents per auto to have it witnessed. Compared to what Topps would be paying the player, that's a minimal added cost.
Nick
Reap the whirlwind.
Need to buy something for the wife or girlfriend? Check out Vintage Designer Clothing.
<< <i>
<< <i>The Football Player was Errict Rhett, Running Back for Tampa. It was his girlfriend signing the 1994 Signature Rookies Cards. >>
They are probably worth more with his GF signature than his. >>