Look at this description of a 1952 Christmas rack pack...

Muggyman · December 12, 2010 8:44AM

1952 Christmas rack pack on ebay

I don't collect Christmas rackpacks, but I think this guy does...

I will paste his description of the pack below, you cannot possibly make it to the end...

"Ok my fellow old baseball card lovers, here's what I've got for you THIS week! A GENUINE 1952 Topps Christmas 12 card cello/rack pack! Most likely made after the season ended in '52 and untouched for 58 years. Sold in dime stores, Woolworths and those type places. Many old timers write me to say they remember these being sold back in the day. They'd get them for Christmas in their stockings. I ALSO recall them in the '60's when I was a kid. This pack is very clean and tight looking. You can only DREAM of what's inside this baby. If you buy it, you can open it. ALL cards are possible, as I have many 1952 through 1962 rack packs with MANTLE'S, MAYS and all the other star cards of the day showing! Check my supersize scans for centering or other issues. To my eye, most of these look like they could grade as 6, 7's, or maybe better. I don't want to heighten expectations TOO much, it's just MY opinion from the cards I can see. Keep in mind, there's no telling what condition the middle cards are, obviously. Most corners look very sharp to me in this pack with a few looking slightly touched. I've been lucky enough to accumulate many of these amazing authentic rack packs and I'm not sure I want to part with too many of them, so this could be a chance for you to pick up some of these sealed pieces of card history. I actually think you may fare better card-wise with these solid and clean packs, than to invest in a totally rare and WAY expensive 1952 wax pack of 5 cards. (Not that you see them too often for sale.....)

Buyer pays $15.00 for fully insured Priority shipping with delivery confirmation. I ship within 2 days of payment. Payment is due within 5 days of auction end. Paypal ONLY and you MUST have a CONFIRMED ADDRESS! That's important and for my protection. If you have any kind of bad or ZERO feedback, too many negs, or less than 5 good feedbacks, don't bid, or contact me first. I reserve the right to cancel bids. I ship to U.S. only, no Apo's, etc. Sold as-is; all sales final. No returns on these sealed pack items. I describe them best I can. Trust my thousands of perfect feedbacks if you will. I may be the ONLY one in the country presently that has and is selling these AUTHENTIC rack packs! These are gorgeous and the real deal. If you open it, please tell me what cards you get. I've had customers pull star cards and hall of famers from these packs! Very cool! I'm also getting a lot of good feedback from satisfied rack pack customers lately and I'm getting repeat customers too. So buyers seem to be happy with what they're buying. Excellent! And you may notice, NO ONE else who sells these babies puts up SUPERSIZE scans of each card like I do--

This pack has showing on top: BAUMHOLTZ-JONES-TORGESON. The back shows: KAZAK-McCULLOUGH-UPTON (Black Back-Low Number!) I see a quarter inch tear on front left side plastic of Baumholtz card, that in NO WAY goes through to actual card itself! This pack is exceptionally clean, tight and sharp looking. Most front card corners appear very sharp to my eye with a few perhaps ever so slightly touched. 1952 Topps is the year that most collectors of rack packs want, so don't pass this baby up this week! It doesn't get better than '52's, you guys... I have dozens of '52 packs with stars and high numbers showing, so truly, ANY cards are possible in this thing! (**One of the last buyers of my '52 packs pulled 2 LOW NUMBER Black Back cards in nice shape from the 6 middle hidden cards! COOL!**) Please continue reading the story below for more info on these rack packs. Thanks!

Here's the story behind my rack pack listings. I think you'll enjoy it. I'm most likely one of only a FEW sellers in the country of these early authentic old Topps card Christmas rack packs. I've known about them for years, gathering as much info as I could find. There still isn't a lot known about them. I DO recall these being sold in the 60's. They each contain 12 cards. 6 you can see and 6 "mystery" cards in the middles. I never bought any back then, because as a kid, I only cared about buying NEW cards every year. Not these dumb OLD cards....

I was TOTALLY fortunate a number of years ago to be put in touch with some people that had a few thousand of these packs that they had literally stashed away in an attic for 35 years! (True story!) They didn't know their value and would I be interested in buying a 1952 pack or two?! WOW! In all my previous years of collecting, I had picked up a few of these packs but I had never come across any packs older than maybe 1958 or so. I mostly came across '59 through '62 packs. That's about all that was in the marketplace at the time. The first that dealers had heard about these long forgotten packs, as I've heard the story told, was that someone sold a dealer 300 to 600 packs at a card show maybe around 10 years ago. That's when they started showing up on Ebay. But I digress...

So here I am, buying these packs from a middle man who represented the person who had this stash all these years. The owner was not an Ebayer, not computer savvy, so they found a friend to put out a feeler or 2. I was a lucky recipient. Long story short, I now have hundreds of these packs. They were ONLY made between 1952 and 1962. Here's the point I'm very upfront about: These were NOT made by Topps, although they are all original Topps cards. We collectors believe they were made using Topps overstock and manufactured by some third party, to liquidate this old Topps inventory and make a few bucks. There is no company name on the plastic packages, just some Xmas designs, wreaths, santa, candy canes,etc. 3 chambers per pack, 4 cards per chamber. You see the top 3 cards, the bottom 3, and there are 6 GLORIOUS unseen "mystery" cards in the middles! Holding these packs in your hands is such a major rush. It's fun to dream about what's in the middle of these things....

I never sold any of these packs until last year. I've only been an avid collector. Again, these are the REAL DEAL! The cards showing appear to me to probably be grade 6 and 7's. (Maybe better!) But I don't want to heighten expectations too much. It's just MY opinion. Some of the cards have the normal centering problems that is common with the early Topps cards. You can make up your own minds about that or other issues. Of course, there's no way of knowing what the mystery cards are OR what condition they're in, so keep that in mind. It's all part of the fun!----

I also want to add that I have many dozens of packs showing major star cards, and in the case of the 1952 packs, I have many that have some or ALL high series cards showing, and many with low numbers (black backs) showing. Among the '52's with star cards I have and may offer for sale, include: Pafko-Mays- Wilhelm- Mathews rookie- Runnels- Jackie Robinson- Hodges- Rizzuto- Berra and more. These packs may be a better buy than even a 1952 wax pack. I believe that. There are 12 cards per pack, ANY cards are possible from the whole set, and you can pretty much see the condition of 6 of the cards. I have lots of packs from other years with Mantle's showing, including a GORGEOUS 1953 MANTLE & WHITEY FORD on top pack! My source DOES have a '52 pack with Mantle on top, but alas, they aren't selling that one....darn....

I truly feel that these hundreds of packs I've come into may be one of the biggest finds of sealed old Topps cards this decade. As much as I hate to part with any of these babies, it's time. Many corners are sharp looking. Some have slight touches. They are mostly turbo tight and clean. Some of us believe these were either made each year, after each season ended, and some believe they were made all at once around 1963. I'm leaning toward the end of each year theory, since a nice old time collector recently wrote me and said he's 100% sure they had them every year at Christmas time, of that years cards. Most likely these cards haven't been touched in 50 or 60 years! Please keep my excellent feedback in mind if you decide to bid. I'm hearing of nice finds from some of my packs and other packs that came from my source. Aarons, Koufax, Mays, Mantle's, and more. Cool!

Check out my Ebay "ME" page to see a few of my 1952 packs. A Pafko pack, and my Mathews #407 rookie pack.. Now THERE'S a unique find!"

grote15 · December 12, 2010 8:57AM

Talk about hawking your wares, and utilizing hyperbole instead of the truth, LOL...

WinPitcher · December 12, 2010 9:08AM

Too much BS for me......................

Steve

Dboneesq · December 12, 2010 9:11AM

What a shame ... it's up to $760.00.

brendanb438 · December 12, 2010 9:19AM

All Christmas rack packs are fake correct??

rlange5 · December 12, 2010 9:38AM

I understand that the Christmas packs are fakes, but looking at the 6 cards that are visible and considering a grade at PSA 7 (which it looks like the ones face up would grade). The value of the 6 showing would be aprox. 700.00, and that doesn't count the 6 in the middle. Would something like this be worth a shot at 1000.00, just to rip and submit?

Bob

mcolney1 · December 12, 2010 10:01AM

Assuming a PSA 7 is truly making an a&& of U an me. Go out and buy the cards already graded and save the multiple headaches.

rlange5 · December 12, 2010 10:08AM

I know that playing that game is always a crap shoot, but just throwing it out there as a question.

I would have no intention of trying it myself, I agree that it would be easier to just purchase them already graded.

Bob

brendanb438 · December 12, 2010 10:28AM

Being a bogus pack I highly doubt the cards are gonna be high grade cards.

Mickey71 · December 12, 2010 11:16AM

First off....I'm not bidding.

Although; is he not speaking the truth? They were made after 1952 with topps' extras. When these were made it was most likely before grading? There could be quite a few NM cards in those packs.

I don't think the seller should act like he struck gold; but those packs have some substancial value. 20 years ago I collected Mantle and Mays and would not have given you a quarter for a NM-MT 1971 Claude Raymond.

Why can't these packs have some decent value?

Dboneesq · December 12, 2010 11:26AM

<< Although; is he not speaking the truth? They were made after 1952 with topps' extras. Why can't these packs have some decent value? >>

No, he is NOT speaking the truth ... read the entire sentence and the one after that: Most likely made after the season ended in '52 and untouched for 58 years. Sold in dime stores, Woolworths and those type places. Many old timers write me to say they remember these being sold back in the day. They'd get them for Christmas in their stockings. I ALSO recall them in the '60's when I was a kid.

He is stating that they were most likely made in 1952, as he mentions that they have been untouched for 58 years. I believe it's quite accepted in our hobby that these packs were put together sometime in the early/mid 80s. According to a few people that bought these from Mark Murphy when he first started selling these for BIG BUCKS, you were NOT going to find a big star in the six cards that were hidden and most of the cards would grade out at a 5 or 6.

EDITED TO ADD: IMO, if these racks were made after the '52 season with the cards that did not sell, there would be MANY HIGH NUMBERED CARDS in these racks, as the high numbered cards were the ones that Topps was left with. If they really DID make these Christmas Racks after the '52 season, Sy Berger would not have had to hire the Barge, load it with the high numbered cases and dump them in the Atlantic off the coast of Brooklyn.

Muggyman · December 12, 2010 11:31AM

Is Mark Murphy, The Baseball Card Kid still a factor in the industry?

What name does he sell under on ebay? I never see him anymore...

D bone, STAY HEALTHY!

Dboneesq · December 12, 2010 11:38AM

Muggster ... I believe he had a fire several years ago and lost much of his inventory. There was rumor about him going back to GAI, but I don't think that ever worked out. S far as eBay, I forgot the name he uses, but most all of the items he was selling was autographed equipment from Ken Griffey Jr.

Muggyman · December 12, 2010 11:42AM

He did indeed have a fire at his house in Connecticut, he had 10 of my packs that were supposed to go to GAI - that was at least 7 years ago.

Do you know what happened to my packs?

You guessed it, UP IN SMOKE baby!

I'm sure there was no foul play.

stevek · December 12, 2010 12:08PM

The seller should write screenplays for Hollywood fiction movies.

Dboneesq · December 12, 2010 12:17PM

<< He did indeed have a fire at his house in Connecticut, he had 10 of my packs that were supposed to go to GAI - that was at least 7 years ago.
Do you know what happened to my packs?

You guessed it, UP IN SMOKE baby! >>

UP in SMOKE

Muggyman · December 12, 2010 12:20PM

That's your Muggyman...

Dboneesq · December 12, 2010 12:22PM

<< That's your Muggyman...

>>

THAT'S why you are one crazy dude on those videos!!!!!!! LOL

hammered · December 12, 2010 1:02PM

I think you're looking at 6-6-5 on those top 3 cards

thunderdan · December 12, 2010 1:04PM

I fell asleep while reading the description.

fkw · December 12, 2010 3:11PM

Nothing fake about them, they WERE NOT packaged by Topps though.

They are aftermarket, and were packed up 5-15 years after the cards inside were printed.

Take that into consideration when bidding. Anyone who doesnt is foolish.

1989FleerBillRipkencollector · December 13, 2010 12:11AM

Seller has been selling these for years. Claimed in '08 to have 400. Over time his story has changed from "packed in the 60's'" to now saying possibly after the years end.

bishop · December 13, 2010 1:49AM

<< Nothing fake about them, they WERE NOT packaged by Topps though.

They are aftermarket, and were packed up 5-15 years after the cards inside were printed.

Take that into consideration when bidding. Anyone who doesnt is foolish. >>

I agree with this post. I think Topps was the source of the cards, returns or excess inventory. The cards had definitely been handled some when repackaged. I have never been clear on who did the repackaging or retailed them, or exactly when it was done ( was it done in one year with leftover cards from several years, or over a longer period of time, and starting when ?). It at least had to start or continue through 1963. If it was done in the 1980s, whey did they stop in 1963 ?

Murphy would not say or did not know. He originally sold packs from 1954 to 1963. Later, packs from 1952 and 1953 showed up. I do think there has been some further repackaging of these things as well so, it is hard to know if you are getting an "original" repack or a further repack.

I have a Topps regular pack run from 1951 through 2010, but I still put together a run of these from 52 to 63. I think they are kind of fun and a little mysterious with the ongoing hobby debate. Hopefully someday someone will be able to give us "the rest of the story" on these. But, will we believe it ?

bking · December 13, 2010 2:32AM

<< 

<< Nothing fake about them, they WERE NOT packaged by Topps though.

They are aftermarket, and were packed up 5-15 years after the cards inside were printed.

Take that into consideration when bidding. Anyone who doesnt is foolish. >>

I agree with this post. I think Topps was the source of the cards, returns or excess inventory. The cards had definitely been handled some when repackaged. I have never been clear on who did the repackaging or retailed them, or exactly when it was done ( was it done in one year with leftover cards from several years, or over a longer period of time, and starting when ?). It at least had to start or continue through 1963. If it was done in the 1980s, whey did they stop in 1963 ?

Murphy would not say or did not know. He originally sold packs from 1954 to 1963. Later, packs from 1952 and 1953 showed up. I do think there has been some further repackaging of these things as well so, it is hard to know if you are getting an "original" repack or a further repack.

I have a Topps regular pack run from 1951 through 2010, but I still put together a run of these from 52 to 63. I think they are kind of fun and a little mysterious with the ongoing hobby debate. Hopefully someday someone will be able to give us "the rest of the story" on these. But, will we believe it ?

>>

I vaguely remember these sort of packs in toy stores in the early 70's.

Griffins · December 13, 2010 2:51AM

I remember them in toy stores in the late '60's/early '70's as well.
I consider them a novelty and not a legitimate issue. IMO Murphy lost all credibility when he started touting these as real.

mbothner · December 13, 2010 3:20AM

I would like to see the rip of this pack to see what is in it. The Upton black back is only a pop 22 in PSA 7.

jeffcbay · December 13, 2010 3:33AM

I've come so close on so many occasions to bidding on one of these packs. Not because I think they're real factory packs (they're obviously not), but because the cards in them seem to be in very nice shape. It seems like there are many possible PSA 8s in these packs.

for instance, the pack that's on sale HERE, has a #52 Don Mueller on the back. If the centering on the back is any indication, this card is a great shot at an 8. That's just one card.

I dunno... if I ever got some eff you money, I think it would be fun to bust one of these puppies open.

Downtown1974 · December 13, 2010 3:39AM

I have thought about buying these in the past as well. Not to rip, but to display. Regardless of whats inside...I think they are kinda cool.

bking · December 13, 2010 3:42AM

<< I've come so close on so many occasions to bidding on one of these packs. Not because I think they're real factory packs (they're obviously not), but because the cards in them seem to be in very nice shape. It seems like there are many possible PSA 8s in these packs.

for instance, the pack that's on sale HERE, has a #52 Don Mueller on the back. If the centering on the back is any indication, this card is a great shot at an 8. That's just one card.

I dunno... if I ever got some eff you money, I think it would be fun to bust one of these puppies open. >>

Oh, the number of times I've made an assumption about centering from only one side of the card. The pain....

stevek · December 13, 2010 3:49AM

<< I've come so close on so many occasions to bidding on one of these packs. Not because I think they're real factory packs (they're obviously not), but because the cards in them seem to be in very nice shape. It seems like there are many possible PSA 8s in these packs.

for instance, the pack that's on sale HERE, has a #52 Don Mueller on the back. If the centering on the back is any indication, this card is a great shot at an 8. That's just one card.

I dunno... if I ever got some eff you money, I think it would be fun to bust one of these puppies open. >>

Save your money - those are not 8's in those packs or even 7's. They are 5's...maybe, maybe, 6's at best...and these sell raw for around $5 - $7 a piece almost all the time on ebay.

NickM · December 13, 2010 3:50AM

<< I would like to see the rip of this pack to see what is in it. The Upton black back is only a pop 22 in PSA 7. >>

The black back pop is a lot higher than that in PSA 7. Most of them are just in slabs that predate PSA listing the back color. Anyone who cares to can get them reholdered with the back color listed for a small fee.

Nick

jeffcbay · December 13, 2010 3:52AM

<< Oh, the number of times I've made an assumption about centering from only one side of the card. The pain.... >>

I hear ya man... that's why I've only thought about it, and never pulled the trigger. With my very limited experience with '52s, it seems like the front jives with the back, for the most part.

It would almost make for a fun "group rip". Three people pool their money together. Person "A" gets the top three, Person "B" gets the middle three, and Person "C" gets the bottom three. Pack is opened on video, and cards distributed. Would be pretty fun to watch!

stevek · December 13, 2010 3:54AM

<< I remember them in toy stores in the late '60's/early '70's as well.
I consider them a novelty and not a legitimate issue. IMO Murphy lost all credibility when he started touting these as real. >>

That's right but the problem is that "scammers" have copied those and inserted 5's or maybe 6's type cards in the packs, and simply made up these sealed packs, which if ya has a bit of knowledge about printing and packaging, is not very hard to do at all to duplicate these packs.

Toro · December 13, 2010 5:23AM

Without including the star cards that are showing, $50 for a common 5 isn't unreasonable. 50 multiplied by 12=$600....$1 to wrap in plastic.....sell them for $1000......that's a pretty good profit....when you're making them in your basement

Edited to add: I see the history they are going for $600-$700.....my point is...easy money to the unsuspecting.

KbKards · December 13, 2010 5:47AM

Nothing fake about them, they WERE NOT packaged by Topps though.

They are aftermarket, and were packed up 5-15 years after the cards inside were printed.

While there is such as thing as XMAS packs, the ones you're seeing in large quantities today are not from that era.

MULLINS5 · December 13, 2010 5:53AM

I've seen at Target packs where companies bought early 90s junk and repackaged them with a couple stars on front for $19.95.

PowderedH2O · December 13, 2010 6:07AM

Obviously, this is not the same thing, but in 1983 I was at a store on the side of the highway (kinda like a Stuckey's) that had bags of comics that were in a Christmas package of 3 comics for 99 cents. I bought one just for the heck of it. The center comic was a Giant Size X-Men #1 in nice condition which I sold in 2001 for $95. You never know...

Toro · December 13, 2010 10:33AM

I remember Toys R Us had the 1997 Masters sets with Tiger on clearance for $5

Look at this description of a 1952 Christmas rack pack...

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