When the T206 Honus Wagner was worth 25 bucks! Update to discuss the American Card Catalog - totally
Stone193
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For those who haven't been here long - I thought I reminisce about an era - long gone.
In the way of background - there were some really big - well known collectors back in the 50s and earlier.
We've all heard of Jefferson Burdick who - to me - is the father of our hobby - he put together the first catalog and was responsible for the cataloging system that's still used today. A long-time friend of his was Lionel Carter - whose collection has been up for auction in the past few years - I've lost touch.
Another group - also well know included Charles Bray. Here's a pick of the group:
Bray's "Card Collector's Bulletin" - was one of the chief publications - sort of an SCD of a kind - that cost like a buck per year to subscribe.
And now the main part:
Flashback to April 17th - 1958:
From the letter enclosed, one can see that Charles had written this individual and offered to review his collection to make him an offer and that he valued the Honus Wagner T206 at $25!!! He was also offering 10 bucks for the very rare Plank card!
This was definitely a different era of collecting! I hope - for those - who've never seen this stuff - ya got a kick out of it - I know I did when I first found it.
Ya gotta love this hobby!
mike
In the way of background - there were some really big - well known collectors back in the 50s and earlier.
We've all heard of Jefferson Burdick who - to me - is the father of our hobby - he put together the first catalog and was responsible for the cataloging system that's still used today. A long-time friend of his was Lionel Carter - whose collection has been up for auction in the past few years - I've lost touch.
Another group - also well know included Charles Bray. Here's a pick of the group:
Bray's "Card Collector's Bulletin" - was one of the chief publications - sort of an SCD of a kind - that cost like a buck per year to subscribe.
And now the main part:
Flashback to April 17th - 1958:
From the letter enclosed, one can see that Charles had written this individual and offered to review his collection to make him an offer and that he valued the Honus Wagner T206 at $25!!! He was also offering 10 bucks for the very rare Plank card!
This was definitely a different era of collecting! I hope - for those - who've never seen this stuff - ya got a kick out of it - I know I did when I first found it.
Ya gotta love this hobby!
mike
Mike 0
Comments
I know $25 was a lot of money back then, but it would not buy you a house in any part of the US. Fast forward to today and a really nice Wagner will buy you a house in most parts of the US.
Mike, thanks for sharing that piece...Donato
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Thank you for the story about Bray's letter. I cannot believe the Wagner was only worth $25 in 1959. In addition, I wonder if Cobb and other HOF were considered "commons" based on his offer.
to the last poster, Cobb probably was considered a "common" even though he was in the hall because of the availability of it...
back then, only the frequency that the card surfaced decided its value....even then they know the wagner and plank were rarley seen!
Great stuff as usual Mike, thanks for sharing.
...I still see a lot of them sell on ebay for around 25 bucks.
To add - Lionel Carter and his wife visited Jefferson Burdick in Syracuse and found him to be a recluse of sorts.
Mrs. Carter: “Jeff was just furious at the prices. He felt that (collecting) was a hobby and not a business. Inserts were given away and not meant to be sold…"
If anyone visits NYC - the Burdick collection is at the Metro Museum of Art in Manhattan.
My experience: In 1985, I bought some cards at a shop and I didn't even look up the price of the cards - the prices seemed fair and I just paid the guy. By 1990, I was armed with Beckett wherever I went.
That defintely changed the face of the hobby along with the 'investors.'
In 1990, the national news reported the purchase at Christies of a 52T pack - it seemed the non-collecting investors came out of the woodwork.
Beckett magazine reported the purchase of a gem mt 52T Mantle for 125K - I thought that was some serious coin - it was an investment purchase IMO - and it paid off!
Not all investments paid off during the boom - that's fer sure!
mike
I wonder if Wagner ever autographed one of those? Wouldn't that be a find!
Shane
"I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
Snorto~
I think $25 was in line with the value then. Im sure Bray would have paid a bit more if needed though, as that was the SET to collect back then.
Note..... I collect Rare
Some of the older card related stuff is fun to look through...
I have an old ACC with the Wagner listed at $10 and commons T206's at 10 cents ea.. I think these prices were in the 1940-50s. And IMO they (T206's) are over valued even at those prices even back then for how common these (T206) cards really are.
est.90 Million printed in 1909-11
IMO The T206 Wagner card is the 2nd most over ratted card ever (behind the '52T Mantle), and far from rare!!!! It exists in numbers of est 50-65. Rare? OK Ya right..... In reality the T206 Honus Wagner is only 20X rarer than the most common T206 cards (most T206's existing in numbers of roughly 2,000 examples per player/pose)
There are thousands of 1910 era baseball cards far far rarer than the T206 Wagner!!! ie (Tobacco Sets) Every single player/card found in T208, T209-1, T209-2, T210, T211, T212-1, T213-1, T213-3, T214, T215-1, T215-2, T216, T217, etc. exist in numbers less than the Wagner. These nonT206 cards are truly Rare!
In the old ACC the values that jump out at me are the oddball stuff like T208's T214's, T217's etc.. Some jump from 10-20 cents to $5,000-$10,000+ in those 50 years.
Even back in the late 70's I can remember when a clean EX T206 Cobb (any pose) brought about $20-$25 and the Wagner was only a couple thousand........ plus the oddball stuff was valued less than T206's back then!! ........ and Im not too old.
I remember well.... In the early 80's you could pick up T206 commons for $2-$3 in EX all day long at shows and there was no premium for tough backs (ie red Hindu's, Lenox, brown OM's etc.). I wish back then I would have liked red Hindu's more than the Polar Bear cards I always bought
If we only knew
Thanks for sharing.
shawn
fkw brings out some good points about the print runs of the early tobacco cards.
No - the Wagner card is not totally non-existent.
That gets into the concept of rare vs scarce - to - perhaps - better delineate what's going on....
Rare: Infrequently occurring; uncommon.
Scarce: Insufficient to meet a demand or requirement; short in supply.
So - imo - the Wagner card is immensely scarce vs some "rare" cards - where - due to the fact that there's only perhaps 2 or 3 copies - doesn't have the demand due to the realization that one may never get the opportunity to grab the card - so the demand is actually low for that item.
This is just a thought - don't know if we've discussed this - just something I thought about a while back with respect the lack of demand for some rarities.
Thanx for the input.
mike
The Wagner at the National in 1992 - as we know - has the first number in the sequence of serials and was encased behind thick plastic on display - it did look rather regal!
So - for those who don't follow this kind of stuff - let's look at where it's gone:
1987 - Jim Copeland - $110,000
1991 - Gretzky/McNall - $451,000
1995 - Walmart/Treat Entertainment - $500,000
1996 - Patricia Gibbs - winner of the sweepstakes
1996 - Mike Gidwitz - $641,500
2000 - Brian Seigel - $1,265,000
2007 - anonymous - $2,350,000
2007 - first anonymous - then revealed (2008) E.G. "Ken" Kendrick - $2,800,000
Note - I've purchased stuff from Mike Gidwitz - he's very easy to work with - friendly - and sends the stuff to me before I even make payment - a real gentleman!
mike
I wish I woulda been buying Tobacco cards instead of all those packs of late 70's Topps cards!!
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Also wanted to add - as in the other thread - a book that I picked up to round out my collection -The American Card Catalog - 1960 - Jefferson Burdick.
As I mentioned - all high numbers from the 52T set were booking at 30 cents!
So - it would only seem that one could snag a card like this - which is now in Rick's store for 60K for a whopping 30 cents or so? Wow!
Ebay Store:
Probstein123
phone: 973 747 6304
email: rickprobstein1@gmail.com
Probstein123 is actively accepting CONSIGNMENTS !!
<< <i>awesome thread, thanks for sharing >>
Thanx Rick.
I wish more people would jump in on stuff like this - the history of the hobby - our roots go way back to some really savvy collectors - pioneers - like Burdick who took the time to create a system where none existed.
I've seen a letter where 50.00 was offered for a Wagner.
=> yes, i appreciate that kind of stuff,
I once bought Gloria Rothstein personal signed baseball collection, nobody appreciated the historical significance of the collection...
I have stacks of card show program from the 1970s...I looks thru them all the time...
I would love to see an original Renata Galasso catalog too...anyone have one ?
Ebay Store:
Probstein123
phone: 973 747 6304
email: rickprobstein1@gmail.com
Probstein123 is actively accepting CONSIGNMENTS !!
<< <i>the history of the hobby
=> yes, i appreciate that kind of stuff,
I once bought Gloria Rothstein personal signed baseball collection, nobody appreciated the historical significance of the collection...
I have stacks of card show program from the 1970s...I looks thru them all the time...
I would love to see an original Renata Galasso catalog too...anyone have one ? >>
I'm sure I don't have it - I do have just about everything I got from 1988 when I rejoined the hobby. I finally stopped saving stuff since I have way too much - every catalog and magazine that was ever sent to me!
I'm a pack rat - I even save boxes!