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SO I want to collect t206 Lets talk Tobacco Cards

I'm preparing to collect t206. Love the cards,history, and originality. Before I spend a $.01 I'm gonna do the research and get educated. So what are good grades to buy? Good places to buy? Tactics? What to watch for? Websites?

PLease tell me your thoughts about tobacco catds.

Basically any tip or referance would be helpful. I'd also love some stories and facts.

Thank You for your contributions.

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Comments

  • Good choice. I'm a newbie as well. Once you start you'll never go back. I wish i would of started years ago!

    Here is some good sites that have been passed along to me from a friend.

    online price checker...
    TCC
    Museum


    image
  • yawie99yawie99 Posts: 2,575 ✭✭✭
    Great choice! I love 'em. I'll try to post more later, but the links from Ben are a good start. The first one, I believe, should help you get a grip on the market. There's an e-book by Scot Reader that's also great resource. I think it's available for download on the T206 Museum site. If not, I have a copy I could send you. I also have an Excel file based on Scot's book that is pretty accurate at outlining all the possible front-back combos. There's still some cards whose status is up in the air, but that's one of the great things about the set. It still inspires almost fanatical devotion and research.

    I'm probably a little over a third of the way in and am lacking most of the notable Hall of Famers, but you can check out my collection at www.imageevent.com/yawie99.
    imageimageimageimageimageimage
  • would buying raw examples off ebay be a good start. I was thinking cheaper cards with good eye appeal. Touched corners and wrinkles would be ok. I would stay away from paper loss and stains.
  • scooter729scooter729 Posts: 1,730 ✭✭✭


    << <i>would buying raw examples off ebay be a good start. I was thinking cheaper cards with good eye appeal. Touched corners and wrinkles would be ok. I would stay away from paper loss and stains. >>



    Due to trimming on many raw t-206's, you may want to look at some lower grade PSA examples. You can find many PSA 3's for example on ebay for relatively short money, which might be a better way to start out than going with raw. Lower-grades such as a PSA 3 or 4 often gets you a good deal on a card with eye appeal, since sometimes the submitter missed a little crease, and they were anticipating a 6 but got a 4 instead, which sells at a fraction of the 6 price.
  • Thats great info! Thanks!
  • mikeschmidtmikeschmidt Posts: 5,756 ✭✭✭
    You can get some unaltered T-206 beaters on Ebay for probably $10 or $15 or under. If you don't mind creases or rounded corners - T206s of commons in good shape are not expensive.
    I am actively buying MIKE SCHMIDT gem mint baseball cards. Also looking for any 19th century cabinets of Philadephia Nationals. Please PM with additional details.
  • yawie99yawie99 Posts: 2,575 ✭✭✭
    I'd have to look but I think my recent purchases run about 50-50 in terms of raw vs. graded (SGC/PSA cards graded 3 and under, most of which I end up cracking out). I did recently receive a few raw cards whose edges I'm a bit skeptical about, but I really think the threat of altered cards in the fair/good through vg/ex range is overstated by PSA and its most ardent adherents. (Similarly, my confidence in PSA's ability to catch such cards has certainly waned over the last year or so.) That's especially true if you do your homework and keep decent records and stick to buying from the people who have yielded good results. That said, I'll take a chance from time to time on a relative unknown since you can occasionally get good deals that way.

    Anyway, I personally think image is everything when it comes to T and E cards. I can handle corner wear, creases and even unobtrusive paper loss or marks, but I really hate cards with washed out color or registration that isn't close to perfect. It's another issue that has lessened my affinity for graded cards. I've purchased many PSA and SGC cards that I end up reselling because while the cards may very well meet the given company's standards for a certain grade, they don't meet my own eye appeal standards.
    imageimageimageimageimageimage
  • Goodsport40Goodsport40 Posts: 1,010 ✭✭
    BBC Exchange has some nice low and mid-grade examples on ebay right now. Steve Hart is about as reliable as it gets. Good luck.

    Robert
  • great! you're joining a great group of collectors when you're pursuing T206. Of all the pre war issues, T206 has the most information available. Im not sure how many T206 collectors there are in this board...i get most of my info on another board....but, as you can already see you can still can a lot of help.

    For starters, check out those links provided by those above. Thats a great way to get a good feel for the set.

    Second, I have (as do many T206 collectors) a great research piece done by Scot Reader, whose been collecting and researching T206 cards for years. PM me your email so i can send it over if you havent already downloaded it or received one from steve.

    Next, I have an excel file of the complete list of T206s...including back variations (the T206 museum gives a checklist..but not as comprehensive). I can send it over if you have gotten it.

    My advice would be to start out with a few commons to get a feel for the card. If you can get them raw, that would be even better...allows you to feel the texture of the card and know more of its intricacies that you might now get if they are slabbed. I would trust buying raw commons from big time sellers like sandiegowill or mike wheat. Here's a list of top pre war card sellers on ebay:

    http://www.oldcardboard.com/ref/ebay-sellers/ebay-sellers.asp

    Next, aim for the big cards. Collectors have always advised me to go after the big cards (minus the big 4...unless you have the type of money to buy them, of course). T206's have seen a dramatic increase in prices over the last year....and the price trend has always been upward. So, buy your HOFs now because in one year they might be 20-25% more in market price. Portraits are higher priced than their non portrait counterparts. Southern leaguers also go for a premium.

    Think about how you want to fit back variations in your collection. There are so many ways to collect T206, and back variations are a way to mix and match....and to extend your collection.

    Im not sure how much you are willing to spend, but most collectors start out collecting vg-vg/ex...PSA 3-PSA 4. These cards have actually seen a big rise in price over the last half year...so much so that ive been nearly priced out on a lot of the cards. My tactic is to buy PSA 1-2 cards with great eye appeal. They are less expensive and look just as good as a PSA 4 with perhaps paper loss or writing in the back.

    To get a good idea of the market value of T206s you can do one of two things: 1.) Check realized prices on Ebay, of course and/or 2.) check out vintagecardprices.com. They provide T206 prices realized for, i believe, the last few months for ALL major auctions. You have to pay a monthly fee, but you can try it out for a month to see if you like it.

    Hope that helps. Please PM me anytime...as i always need help as well collecting this set.
  • Thanks Again for the info.
  • I noticed a card in nr-mint shape except it had paperloss on it's back. What would be the max grade on a subject such as this with rear paper loss.


    My guess would be fair or good?
  • 2dueces2dueces Posts: 6,231 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Welcome to the T206 collectors corner. To answer your last question, most of the time paper loss is graded Poor. Thats a good thing. Many PSA 6 fronts have been torn from albums and graded poor. I have 4 or 5 examples with paper loss on the back that are stunning examples that graded PSA 1. That's good for the eye appeal thing Steve was talking about earlier. I differ from Steve a bit. I'd rather have bits of paper loss than a deep crease, but thats what makes this hobby so great. Steve and I have talked about this set many times. Unless you have unlimited funds and want to go helter scelter buying everything you see try to start off with a plan. Maybe start with teams you want to collect, HOFer's, certain backs, portraits, minimum grade or players. There are so many available you can get crazy. Good luck and if you need any advise PM or e-mail me. Joe
    W.C.Fields
    "I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
  • ajwajw Posts: 2,279 ✭✭✭
    How many cards are in the set? (not counting back variations...but including portrait/action variations)
  • NickMNickM Posts: 4,896 ✭✭✭
    It depends on how much back paper loss there is. If it's just a small spot, you can readily get a PSA 2.

    Nick
    image
    Reap the whirlwind.

    Need to buy something for the wife or girlfriend? Check out Vintage Designer Clothing.
  • 2dueces2dueces Posts: 6,231 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Nick, You are absolutely right. I meant to say most of the time in my post. I do have a card with a dot of paper loss that graded a 2. Thanks for the correction.
    W.C.Fields
    "I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
  • yawie99yawie99 Posts: 2,575 ✭✭✭


    << <i>How many cards are in the set? (not counting back variations...but including portrait/action variations) >>



    524, I think.
    imageimageimageimageimageimage
  • NickMNickM Posts: 4,896 ✭✭✭
    Beckett calls it 523 different cards (including the Wagner, Plank, and Magie), but recognizes 3 other variations (Nodgrass, Shappe, and Doyle N.Y. Nat'l).

    2dueces - I've seen a PSA 2 grade on cards with a pencil eraser-head size area of paper loss on a blank area of the back.

    Nick
    image
    Reap the whirlwind.

    Need to buy something for the wife or girlfriend? Check out Vintage Designer Clothing.
  • Wow thanks for the info I can't wait to get my first card. I missed out on a psa 6 (what it would of graded) except it was raw and had paper loss on the back. I was outbid at the last minute from $15 to $16 arrgh.
  • yawie99yawie99 Posts: 2,575 ✭✭✭
    I included the Doyle as a true variation, but I think the Nodgrass and Shappe are more printing anomalies.

    I hope to acquire a Magie at some point, but I think the Wagner, Plank and Doyle are just pipedreams for the great majority of T206 collectors.
    imageimageimageimageimageimage
  • On PSa graded T206 what is the (mk) designation and what is it on the card. I was wondering about higher grades with this designation. Are they at discounts for there grade. Or should you stay away from them.

    Personally if they are worth there money I would'nt mind purchasing them and in high grades.

    Is the (mk) something you should stay away from and for what reasons.


    Also cards with trimming. Would this be noticed by a crisper edge and corner than others. I would think if you were buying in person you could make a template out of index card for checking. But on internet what tips are there.

    I still wouldn't mind raw cards that are trimmed only if they were discounted and most likely in low end condition because there is not so much $ into the card and it's for your personal collection to add quanity=) only at a good deal though.

  • FRNAllStar

    The T206 set is long before our time and I don't think we need a thread about it. How about starting a new discussion and tell us about your favorite Chinese restaurants?

    your friend,
    douchebag193
  • Stone193Stone193 Posts: 24,351 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>FRNAllStar

    The T206 set is long before our time and I don't think we need a thread about it. How about starting a new discussion and tell us about your favorite Chinese restaurants?

    your friend,
    douchebag193 >>


    image
    Mike
  • If you are young and patient, I would hold off on buying the valuable ones now. You are buying at the wrong time if budget is a concern. If you have lots of money to burn, then proceed.

    The HOFers from this set will always be around. No need to spend wildly on the Cobb's or Johnson's right now as the prices are very hot. I sold my Pre war stuff during the hot times, and made out well even though they were bought just a year or two ago. The cards are nowhere near to be considered rare and they aren't that tough to find. There is always a Cobb or WJ listed on Ebay every day. They aren't going to disappear. I would be surprised if the prices don't come back down a bit in time. A sellers market for sure on those. I think the commons are fairly easy to get, and they are relatively cheap.


    Stone, what is your fascination with chinese restaurants image
  • gosteelersgosteelers Posts: 2,668 ✭✭✭
    I agree with some earlier posts regarding buying the big boys first. (Just wait until I get all of mine first!). It seems like prices, even in the last 4-5 months have gone way up with the HOF'ers. Steve (yawie) and Joe (2deuces) are great guys and very helpful and knowledgable with this topic...

    Mark
  • 2dueces2dueces Posts: 6,231 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Prices are through the roof in just this past year. It started with the the PSA 6,7-8's and has now trickled down to the PSA 4 and 5's. If you can afford to buy the Big HOFer's, by all means buy graded examples from the big 3. (PSA, SGC, GAI). I bought what was affordable at the time and passed on many HOFer's last year. It will cost me double now for each one I passed on. Hindsight is great, but we have move past that and realize it is with the times. Just remember to have a plan.
    W.C.Fields
    "I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
  • deuces, that is why I would hold off on buying the big ones. It is almost never worth it to be a buyer in the middle of the frenzy. The cards aren't rare, so it isn't like it will be a once or twice in a lifetime opportunity if you are patient and hold off.

  • 2dueces2dueces Posts: 6,231 ✭✭✭✭✭
    True, and I hope you are right about it being a frenzy. but since the 80's everyone has said the prices cant keep going up. Well here we are in 2006 and they are higher than ever. I wont have to worry about holding off, I can't afford them at these prices now, so I have no choice but to wait. I do have 20 something HOFers, but missed out on 2 that I really would like to have by now. Matty and Johnson portraits. but I am willing to wait and see.
    W.C.Fields
    "I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
  • gosteelersgosteelers Posts: 2,668 ✭✭✭
    I was interested in a PSA 4 Ty Cobb Green a few weeks back. I figured it would go for around $2750-$3000. It ended at about $4200! I go back and forth about buying the big boys. Would I rather have 20-25 PSA 4s and 5s or one big boy. Tough call...
  • 2dueces2dueces Posts: 6,231 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yea, I know the feeling. I had a chance at green Cobb in June 2005 for $600. Prolly woulda graded a 3. I passed and bought a Red instead. I shoulda bought them both. Dumba$$. Oh well.
    W.C.Fields
    "I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
  • Stone193Stone193 Posts: 24,351 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Stone, what is your fascination with chinese restaurants >>


    Skin

    Are you guys reading closely?

    The post about the chinese restaurant started with someone who's using my icon - Enema.

    mike
    Mike
  • StingrayStingray Posts: 8,843 ✭✭✭
    Stone has a stalker??image
  • 2dueces2dueces Posts: 6,231 ✭✭✭✭✭
    No, He has a groupie. Congrads Mike. Thats the highest of compliments. image
    W.C.Fields
    "I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.

  • "skinpinch"
    Prices reflect demand. So by saying prices are gonna go down your saying demand will drop.

    Prices also reflect quanity. I don't think there is gonna be a major injection of tobacco cards into the market.



    PERTAINING TO THIS MARKET
    SO the only way for prices to drop is for demand to drop. There are no other factors of market manipulation in the tobacco card market (Ceteris Peribus). They are not making any more! Ever!

    Also the older something is the more it should rise in value.

    Oh and another thing how fragile is paper? (sarcasim)

  • NickMNickM Posts: 4,896 ✭✭✭
    The (MK) designation means that someone marked the card - usually in pencil or pen, but sometimes with an ink stamp. On higher grade cards, it is a 2 grade drop for set registry purposes (on lower grade cards, a 1 grade drop, except for PSA 1(MK), which has no drop). Most collectors downgrade the value of marked cards by even more than that, and they are generally not considered to grade any higher than Good. However, a card may exhibit excellent eye appeal and have a mark (especially on the back), and thus provide good collector value for its price.

    As far as trimmed cards go, the best tip I can offer is to search for threads on these boards about trimmed cards, and look at the pictures and discussion.

    Nick
    image
    Reap the whirlwind.

    Need to buy something for the wife or girlfriend? Check out Vintage Designer Clothing.
  • pandrewspandrews Posts: 7,598 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Stone, what is your fascination with chinese restaurants >>


    Skin

    Are you guys reading closely?

    The post about the chinese restaurant started with someone who's using my icon - Enema.

    mike >>



    image
    ·p_A·
  • gosteelersgosteelers Posts: 2,668 ✭✭✭
    If you're looking at raw, note that American Beauty backed cards will be thinner than the rest due to packaging back in the day...
  • Personally I'm gonna buy slabbed. best thing for a beginner like me.

    As for my first purchases I have a goal. To assemble a 5 card set of t206. that would be a grade 1,2,3,4 and 5.

    That way I can study and learn the cards in theree different conditions.

    Raw single cards seem overpriced on ebay considering your not veiwing them in person and by photo. Does anyone else think that?
  • Before I sold my collection I had up too 100 different t206 so i think i can give a little insight on the topic.

    I would not buy raw cards for no more than maybe $10 or $15 depending on your budget starting out. It takes so time to be able to tell what is trimmed and what is not.

    I would buy 1 or two trimmed cards. Honest sellers will sell them as such. This will give you a good reference to look at to see what they look like trimmed.

    T206 cards that have flaws but still present a nice picture on the front do have a good deal of value in them. Many folks will pay good money for a hard to find card that might have back damage but looks as nice as can be on the front.

    Start out by buying cards with the common Piedmont and Sweet Caporal backs. Cards with the harder to find backs like Hindu, American Beauty, and Lennox can cost a lot.

    Go to the Network54 message board and just read the posts. The info there is incredible.

    As far as graded cards with better resale value, I have found the both SGC and PSA graded T206 will sell with strong prices. However, the edge goes to PSA.

    As far as accuracy SGC is just as good as PSA when it comes to grading accuracy.

    As far as who to buy from on Ebay that is honest, I bought a good portion of my cards from Ebay ID PeteB316 who is as good as they come. he will list a card raw as trimmed if he thinks so and he does a pretty good job describing condition.

    For the hall of fame cards and hard to find cards be prepared to open your wallet wide. Prices are going up on these bad boys everyday.

    Hope this helps,
    Paul
  • 2dueces2dueces Posts: 6,231 ✭✭✭✭✭
    People buying raw are trying to get a bump on a grade. What I mean is it looks like a 4 but in person its a 3, and you spent almost 4 money on it. not all the time, but most of the time. For a beginner, buy graded and maybe a few raw cheapies from a trusted source so you can see and touch them. Good luck my friend, happy hunting. Joe
    W.C.Fields
    "I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
  • yawie99yawie99 Posts: 2,575 ✭✭✭
    I often wonder what the T206 market is going to be like in the future. It hasn't quite been quite as explosive as what's happened with E cards, but the set has been very hot, with the marquee portraits leading the way. I definitely agree with Skinpinch in that the great majority of T206 cards are readily available and that being patient can pay off. Still, I can see prices perhaps flattening a bit but it's hard to envision an appreciable decline in value. As this thread itself would suggest, the Monster is the hobby's siren's song. Demand for T206's is always going to be there.
    imageimageimageimageimageimage
  • -2Dueces-

    You do make a very valid point about the quantity of t206 cards. Patience should pay off. WHile there is a sustainable demand with this product. the quanity may allow you to be more selective in quality or price.




  • Well here is the start of my collection. Raw off ebay. I have an elite camera so I will take new photos with lots of pixels when I get them in the mail. I figured it be nice to feel the cards raw. This weekend I hope to find a nice slabber.

    image
    image
  • 2dueces2dueces Posts: 6,231 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Very nice start. You've done your homework and it is paying off. Feel free to contact me any time you have a question. One more thing....don't out bid me. LOL J/K Good luck in the hunt. That's 90% of the fun.
    W.C.Fields
    "I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
  • 2dueces2dueces Posts: 6,231 ✭✭✭✭✭
    A good example of either impatiance or a duke it out battle. I paid $53 for my SGC 30 in Dec 2005. could be a registry war. I think it went a tad high, but I'm not surprised by this anymore. I believe if I tried to get the same cards as I bought last year (just the cards I purchased last year) I would have to pay 35-40% more for them now.link
    W.C.Fields
    "I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
  • yawie99yawie99 Posts: 2,575 ✭✭✭
    That's a nice looking 2, but not that nice. At that price, I thought maybe it'd be a Factory 42 back, but it's not. I don't get it.
    imageimageimageimageimageimage
  • Thanks 2Dueces Those 4 cards above I purchased avg. out to $19 each with shipping.

    2dueces that psa 2 is wonderful. Wonder what makes that card a 2? is there crease or a mark?
  • 2dueces2dueces Posts: 6,231 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Prolly some hidden flaw. The purpose of my post was that $200+ for that card is quite a hefty price.
    image


    Here's my 2. Its an 350-460 overprint back with a pencil mark on the back. Eye appeal over grade. buy the card not the holder.
    W.C.Fields
    "I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
  • Wow, I just noticed that $200 for a psa2 Mcgraw is alot o money after checking a price guide.

    The fact you said alot of t206 exist has kept me to the principle to only collect eye appeal. Be patient. Quanity is nothing to quality. I'm not talking high grades only, I'm talking all grades becuase 1's with Eye appeal are SEXY.

    Personally I understand how one could go for quanity and sacrifice eye appeal. I notice cards that have paperloss or heavy marking or heavy creasing are good bargains. This would provide you with alot of examples. However this isn't my style.
  • 2dueces2dueces Posts: 6,231 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If you paid $19 a card for those that you bought, you did well in my opinion. If nothing is hidden, I think they will all grade PSA 4. I was picking up 4's last year between 33-38 a card. Today, prices have jumped with the average $60. I have noticed that the trickle down effect has effected all grades now. Getting tougher and tougher to stay within my price on any card. But, with every thing else its the same. Its like driving around town trying to find gas at $2.50 a gallon. If I want to drive I have to pony up the $3 a gallon or park it. Same goes for cards. If you want it, you have to pay the going price. I love posting this card. It has been on many times but I share with other collectors because my wife and 3 daughters could care less. Cobb with a ghost image of Cobb on the back.


    image

    image
    W.C.Fields
    "I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
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